Criminal indictments coming for Trump.

[GOT_BUD?]

each had their bad points. but i don't know if it is possible in MY mind to think she was the worst of the pair. she represents much of the worst in politics/politicians. The Chump represents much of the worst of humanity. concerns about him pushed me to vote for Hillary, which gave me stomach cramps and left bruises on my moral compass. but i still think it was the right call, just as Biden was. sometimes you have to grit your teeth and do the right thing, win, lose, or draw, for your self-respect and sanity.

When I saw my choices were Trump or Clinton, I wrote in Cthulu. Why vote for the lesser evil?

 

[HempKat]

each had their bad points. but i don't know if it is possible in MY mind to think she was the worst of the pair. she represents much of the worst in politics/politicians. The Chump represents much of the worst of humanity. concerns about him pushed me to vote for Hillary, which gave me stomach cramps and left bruises on my moral compass. but i still think it was the right call, just as Biden was. sometimes you have to grit your teeth and do the right thing, win, lose, or draw, for your self-respect and sanity.

Well I'm not saying that as a statement of my personal opinion on Hillary. I mainly said that because that's what many people who voted for Trump claimed after the 2016 election. Personally I figure Hillary to be the same sort of self serving corporate politician like so many are. And when I say self serving I don't mean in the same way as Trump who literally triedd to pursue policies that benefitted him personally. I mean more self serving in the way that kind of seems like the best thing for the country at the time but ultimately serves the neeeds of their donors more then the needs of the people. I think had Hillary won she wouldn't have been terrible because there would have been enormous pressure on her to do a decent enough job to make women look good because she would have been the first woman President and she would want to do her best to try to set a somewhat positice precedent for future women candidates. I also keep in mind that while most people knew Trump to be a terrible business man, in 2016 he was a somewhat unknown quantity. I firmly believe that if we could go back to the 2016 election knowing what we know now about Trump he would have lost in much the way he did to Biden. Which is why Biden won the way he did and that goes to the idea of Biden being less bad then Trump. Lots of people weren't overly enthusiastic about Biden and Biden had been known for a long time at that point of having sings of being past his prime and prone to making what they call unforced errors but by that point everyone pretty much knew what Trump was like and so even with Biden being past his prime and all that he still was seen as being enough better then Trump to win the kind of win he had.

If Biden runs again and he goes up against Trump I think he'll clearly win a re-election but it won't be quite as decisive as it was in 2020. Now if Trump doesn't get the nomination and a decent "Traditional Republican" candidate gets the nomination then all bets are off and Biden would likely lose. Fortunately for the Democrats the current Republican party is catering still to the vocal minority in the MAGA camp and as long as they keep doing that and keep pursuing the agenda they're currently pursuing then I think Biden's chances remain good. If however someone like Liz Chaney or Adam Kinzinger some how became the nominee (which I'm pretty confident will never happen) Then Biden would lose. He probably would even lose to DeSantis (who is very Trump like) but In his case I think there's a lot of negative things that would come out to kill his chances that people aren't really considering right now because at the moment he's not running.

 

[audiohi]

is that even his name? reports now saying he was going by a different name in 2019. probably never sucked a dick, either... what would you call a "fake gay" person, anyway? a "fakkit" ?

wait...

no republican is demanding to see his birth certificate?

 

[Hammerhead]

Sure they can, Trump was just a citizen when he commited his crime. Of course so was Biden but he's president now and as we all know thanks to Trump, you can't indict a sitting President.

I disagree, Doing so would look really bad and could cause more issues than it's worth. IMO they did that on purpose to protect the Presidential institution.. It doesn't matter that Biden is POTUS. It only matters how it looks to the public. Those Doc's were old from 2021. That tells me no one was looking for those. It just doesn't seem feasible to Indict Trump when Biden did the same. It really won't matter how big a difference it is.

It's far more important who gets elected in the Senate and house than it is POTUS. This is where the majority of what affects us gets done. It also affects how Redistricting maps get drawn up. Gerrymandering is a huge problem and the stupidity of voters thinking either side is good. .

 

[audiohi]

I disagree, Doing so would look really bad and could cause more issues than it's worth. IMO they did that on purpose to protect the Presidential institution.. It doesn't matter that Biden is POTUS. It only matters how it looks to the public. Those Doc's were old from 2021. That tells me no one was looking for those. It just doesn't seem feasible to Indict Trump when Biden did the same. It really won't matter how big a difference it is.

It's far more important who gets elected in the Senate and house than it is POTUS. This is where the majority of what affects us gets done. It also affects how Redistricting maps get drawn up. Gerrymandering is a huge problem and the stupidity of voters thinking either side is good. .

Crimes are based on intent.

Unless you're poor

 

[Three Berries]

Sure they can, Trump was just a citizen when he commited his crime. Of course so was Biden but he's president now and as we all know thanks to Trump, you can't indict a sitting President.

And the crime was?

 

[Hammerhead]

LOL only for us peasents. Breaking the law when rich is overlooked. Breaking the law when you have power is always overlooked. It's one of the biggest problems with our broken justice system. What we have seen in the last 5 years doesn't prove that nothing will.

 

[Zeez]

Republicans know they could never win a popular vote, gerrymandering has become increasingly obvious, and their only last hope is to hack the electoral system. They also seem to enjoy just being a bunch of todgers.

 

[armedoldhippy]

LOL only for us peasents. Breaking the law when rich is overlooked. Breaking the law when you have power is always overlooked. It's one of the biggest problems with our broken justice system. What we have seen in the last 5 years doesn't prove that nothing will.

quite a few "rich" go to jail. as many as SHOULD be in prison? not by a long shot, lol. we'll be seeing more as we go...i'm an optimist, or try to be. some days the clouds look darker and lower from here...

 

[armedoldhippy]

a decent "Traditional Republican" candidate

i can think of several i could vote for, if...

Doing so would look really bad and could cause more issues than it's worth

NOT doing so might be the worst thing to happen to this country. the laws need to apply to everyone & i see no reason to kick the can down the road again just to give someone that cheats at golf another mulligan... i understand "causing issues" but every action is going to have a reaction. let's do this now & not allow it to fester any longer.

 

[HempKat]

I disagree, Doing so would look really bad and could cause more issues than it's worth. IMO they did that on purpose to protect the Presidential institution.. It doesn't matter that Biden is POTUS. It only matters how it looks to the public. Those Doc's were old from 2021. That tells me no one was looking for those. It just doesn't seem feasible to Indict Trump when Biden did the same. It really won't matter how big a difference it is.

It's far more important who gets elected in the Senate and house than it is POTUS. This is where the majority of what affects us gets done. It also affects how Redistricting maps get drawn up. Gerrymandering is a huge problem and the stupidity of voters thinking either side is good. .

But see that's just the thing Biden didn't do exactly the same thing, not even close. Now I'll grant you that there may be someone behind all this that did set this up exactly to create the impression in people's minds that it is the same thing but here is why it isn't. First and most importantly, as soon as the documents were discovered, within 24 hours the archives and the DOJ were contacted and arrangements were made to get the documents where they belonged. In Trump's case the Archives were aware the documents were missing and proceed to try to get Trump's people to return them in a process that lasted for more then a year during which Trump repeatedly blew them off. Then finally after a subpoena was issued Trumps lawyers turn over a fairly large amount of the documents including Top Secrect documents and gave a false signed affidavit that that was everything they had. Then owing to an inside informant someone made DOJ aware that Trump still had classified documents and where they would likely be found. This led to the search warrant which when executed did in fact turn up lots more classified documents which demonstrated that Trump was willfully trying to retain classified documents. Which is were the most substantial difference is. When you examine the language of the potential charges it's not so much the possession of classified documents that makes them a crime but rather when someone goes out of their way to retain then after they realize they have them. Then there was the whole matter of the special master fiasco which we all know was just an attempt to keep DOJ from recovering the documents right away. And during that time Trump issuing statements about how he declassified the documents and therefore they were his. The charges that arose from the documents never required that the documents be classified the fact that they were classified only spoke to how sensitive the information in them was. Even if Trump had somehow magically declassified them with his mind, that doesn't automatically give him ownership. Classified or not the documents were government property that Trump was trying to claim as his own.

The only similarity between Trump's possession of classified documents and Biden's possession was that they both had these documents in places where they were not supposed to be. The only way one can fairly equate the two incidents as being the same could only happen had Trump done the right thing and immediately turned the documents over the first time he was contacted about doing so. You can look back over the reporting of Trump's case and find that there was widespread agreement that had Trump done the right thing from day one like Biden did, there never would have been a subpoena or a search warrant issued and that the matter would have blown over. Which is why it is now being widely reported that the special prosecutor Jack Smith is expected to issue indictments on the Trump document case in a matter of weeks. Of course now you have the new Congresses new Subcommittee to Obstruct Justice that is threatening to block all that.

 

[HempKat]

And the crime was?

In Trump's case the crime was willfully retaining Government Property involving National Security Secrets.

 

[HempKat]

LOL only for us peasents. Breaking the law when rich is overlooked. Breaking the law when you have power is always overlooked. It's one of the biggest problems with our broken justice system. What we have seen in the last 5 years doesn't prove that nothing will.

I really don't get why you even started this thread then if as we get close to actually seeing some indictments you're going to take the position that the justice system is broken and therefore we're not going to see any indictments just because it would look too bad to indict a former President.

 

[Hammerhead]

I really don't get why you even started this thread then if as we get close to actually seeing some indictments you're going to take the position that the justice system is broken and therefore we're not going to see any indictments just because it would look too bad to indict a former President.

lol, At least I have common sense and what can be expected realistically. I don't wear rose colored glasses. Our justice system has been broken since I was born. You must live under a rock to think otherwise. Do I think trump will get locked up not a chance in hell. Do I think he deserves to be absolutely. Is the investigation into Classified docs against trump going anywhere nope. You seem to think only your opinion matters here, Ill give you a hint it doesn't. We all can disagree with what you believe.

i can think of several i could vote for, if...

NOT doing so might be the worst thing to happen to this country. the laws need to apply to everyone & i see no reason to kick the can down the road again just to give someone that cheats at golf another mulligan... i understand "causing issues" but every action is going to have a reaction. let's do this now & not allow it to fester any longer.

They do not apply the same to all. Trust me, the amount of corruption in our GOV is much worse than we are aware of. The DOJ can not indict Trump and not do the same to Biden. Doesn't matter about the differences. Any doc taken is illegal whether it's 1 or 500. 18 U.S.C. 1924

(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

In the end at most both Trump and Biden will get fined. Any can disagree with my opinion. I don't have issues with any that look at it differently lol.

 

[Hammerhead]

The pages keep adding up. On four occasions, classified documents were found at Biden's private residence and a D.C. office he used before becoming president. No way Biden did not know about having them when he was VP. If he did that when VP you can bet he's done the same as POTUS. If he has any he better return them before found.

 

[HempKat]

lol, At least I have common sense and what can be expected realistically. I don't wear rose colored glasses. Our justice system has been broken since I was born. You must live under a rock to think otherwise. Do I think trump will get locked up not a chance in hell. Do I think he deserves to be absolutely. Is the investigation into Classified docs against trump going anywhere nope. You seem to think only your opinion matters here, Ill give you a hint it doesn't. We all can disagree with what you believe.

Wow, I questtion why you started a thread whose topic goes against what are apparently long standing deep held opinions of yours and you treat it like some personal attack. Complete with unneeded and uncalled for insults based on nothing but even more opinions of where I'm coming from. Then to top it all off you take it upon yourself to speak for everyone else in the thread. I never said the justice system wasn't broken or that I think otherwise. Nobody here is wearing rose colored glasses but apparently you are working with blinders that prevent you from considering anything but your own opinion as being worthy. For all this time that this thread has been running nobody has ever seriously suggested that Trump will get locked up. Sure some have made joking remarks about Trump getting a jumpsuit that matches his complexion but anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together to spark some original thought should have seen that was just that, a joke. You seem to operate under the delusion that anyone's opinion here matters more then anyone else's, I'll give you a hint, none of them do. In the end they are all just opinions and in the end all of them matter only to the person that holds them. Opinions are not facts, they are not truths they are not even reality.

As you should know since you started the thread and came up with the title all this thread was ever about was wether or not Trump's actions would lead to indictments. All an indictment is, is formal notice from the courts that they are believed to have committed a crime and informs them of the charges being made against them. This thread was never about convictions or jail sentences or anything like that. I myself have stated on several occasions that the best anyone can hope for as far as punishments for Trump would be home arrest in any one of the number of the posh residences he owns. I would wager though that most aren't even holding out much hope for that and would just be perfectly content with him being denied the opportunity of ever serving in public office ever again. Sure, the prevailing view is that if you have enough wealth or you are part of an elite group then you will not be faced with consequences for your actions. People believe that because we've all seen plenty of examples where some elite or wealthy personcommits a crime and walks away scott free while some poor or lower class person does the exact same thing and gets the book thrown at them. That is not how it always goes however and it's strange to me how easily we seem to forget that some times justice is served and even elites get an extended visit to some cross bar hotel. Usually when the crime is so egregious that it has to be punished. I'm sure if one wanted to one could find a whole bunch of examples of where elites or wealthy people were forced to face justice, the best one that comes to mind in relatively recent history is Bernie Madoff who is credited with having executed the largest Ponzi scheme in American history and for his crimes was sentenced to 150 years in prison where he went and stayed until he died almost 12 years later. His wealth and status was orders of magnitude greater then Trump ever obtained or could hope for. We will all just have to wait and see what becomes of Trump.his crimes were nothing like Madoff's but they were extrmely egregious and therefore the possibility that some accountability will happen to him is not anywhere near as unrealistic as you want to suggest.

 

[Hammerhead]

I ain't quoting that book. My response was for both of your original post lol. Someone got the panties all bunched. It seems to me all you want to do is argue with a different opinion. It ain't personal, stop acting 10. Some advice takes off those rose colored glasses. The world we live in is more hash than good. It doesn't matter to me who commits the crime. All gov is bad. I'm not into the back-and-forth nonsense. My fuse to ignore is short. Agree to disagree and move on dude. I've said all I need to..

 

[armedoldhippy]

The DOJ can not indict Trump and not do the same to Biden.

i'm all for it, if the evidence supports it. THAT won't be up to us. it's NOT simply having the documents, it is not returning them when legally required/asked for. stop pretending it can't be done. pitch Hillary in there with them if it makes you happy...

 

[Hammerhead]

i'm all for it, if the evidence supports it. THAT won't be up to us. it's NOT simply having the documents, it is not returning them when legally required/asked for. stop pretending it can't be done. pitch Hillary in there with them if it makes you happy...

It is illegal for them to remove them in the 1st place. It negates any other excuses they make. As we can see they keep finding more doc weekly. I'm not following the other comment?. What Hillary did wasn't illegal just stupid. They are all snakes, IMO it won't be done as it threatens the institution. If Biden had not given Turd this gift it would have had more traction in a possible indictment.. Not a possibility IMO going forward for this crime. I'm no Trump fan. He is def the worst at everything as a person. If they do indict Trump and not Biden I see issues from the Right and many Democrats are also voicing concerns. I would not let Biden slide on this without punishment. I just don't believe Biden didn't know he took them and not know lol..

 

[Three Berries]