Pretty sure bizzybee posted it on instagram. I would assume it could of occured from a loose power cord or the old switch they used. They replaced it with a new plastic power rocker aswell.
CPS TR21 users get in here!!
- Thread starter EpicExtracts
- Start date
Pretty sure bizzybee posted it on instagram. I would assume it could of occured from a loose power cord or the old switch they used. They replaced it with a new plastic power rocker aswell.
Im pretty sure it wasn't bizzybee
I'm also pretty sure who it is and that extractor runs pure propane. If you've ever run pure propane you've probably realized how much hotter it runs. With Ntane and dry ice after chiller we still see temps of 140-150 on the head of the tr21. I can only imagine how high temps get with pure propane
I'm also pretty sure who it is and that extractor runs pure propane. If you've ever run pure propane you've probably realized how much hotter it runs. With Ntane and dry ice after chiller we still see temps of 140-150 on the head of the tr21. I can only imagine how high temps get with pure propane
blackbart1720
Member
Pure777Extracts
Member
Just sparkless and over priced
So Bigfoot extractors posted their cps TRS21 manual on ig and it clearly states it's rated for r290 and r600. Mine came with the tr21 manual and doesn't mention compatability with those refrigerants.
If these pumps are rated, my judgments may be completely incorrect. Has anyone received a trs21 with the updated manual?
If these pumps are rated, my judgments may be completely incorrect. Has anyone received a trs21 with the updated manual?
lol i was arguing with someone yesterday about how these are just spark proof and hes trying to tell me no its stainless all inside. i asked for a picture of this SS piston and SS manifold head and pictures of really just any stainless he could find.... Never heard back lol.
I guess because his says "TRS-21 Sparkproof" on the box he says the S is for stainless and then it just says sparkproof. lol i just kept saying "sure..... where are the pics??"
Pics or it didnt happen, duh!
I guess because his says "TRS-21 Sparkproof" on the box he says the S is for stainless and then it just says sparkproof. lol i just kept saying "sure..... where are the pics??"
Pics or it didnt happen, duh!
...try a 'vapor vue' on your collection spool out ..it worked for me when i had similar problems ..i use it every run and clean it from the opposite end with a can tapper and a little canned tane every couple runs...
...this thing has a little sight glass ..if oil makes it past the 'vapor' to the 'view' ...you can see it ..and it has a little place to hang out, instead of going right up the hose...
...the guesswork .."is oil going to my pump...?" is taken out of the equation.
..no ...oil is not getting to my pump
Over filling and using WAY to hot of water for recovery was always my culprit of oil in the pump. These days i haven't seen any sings of oil in my pumps for a long time. Using water hotter then 70F is asking for a raging boil inside your pot which means lots of mist getting sucked up. Over filling of coarse will muck a pump all up, and require a cleanign a reuild to work right again.
EpicExtracts
Member
Pretty sure this is where I screwed up. Over the last few days I have noticed a very faint hissing noise and the pump bogs down once in a while. Sounded like it was going to stop at one point. Have you rebuilt yours yet?
..seems like the 75 to 80 f line is the crossover point for that raging boil in my spool while full ..once 0.5# is removed which is fast ..that seem to no longer be an issue ..i ride the 80 -85 range once there and rdcovery is fast ..fast ..fast...
*IMPORTANT TRS-21 ANNOUNCEMENT*
*IMPORTANT TRS-21 ANNOUNCEMENT*
[FONT="]As[FONT="] many of you already know, t[/FONT]he CPS Pro-Set TRS-21 is supposed to be a *spark-proof* refrigerant recovery pump with an *all stainless steel and PTFE compressor* designed to *vacuum in liquid hydrocarbon (mostly aliphatic) refrigerant vapor down to 29” Hg or more* and pump the vapor or liquid outat up to 550 psi.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Every specification about this pump highlighted in *asterisks* above is either patently false or else severely problematic within a short period of time with this pump.[/FONT]
[FONT="]*They hard wired the power cord (instead of leaving it removable with a 3-prong “computer cord” terminal) and shoddily applied caulk to some of the electrical contacts under the plastic housing on top of the TR-21’s motor. That’s it. Oh, and now it retails for $1,250 instead of $600.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yeah…[/FONT]
[FONT="]At least they included a sheet of paper in the TR-21 instruction booklet with a couple of safety tips for working with inflammable class A2, A2L, and A3 refrigerants. They mention the need for a grounding strap between the pump body and recovery tank, for example. This strap is NOT provided, of course, despite the fact that all but a very few custom-made hoses sold for refrigerant recovery are non-conductive (which is not mentioned). They also say “…the system should be purged with 100% dry nitrogen. Do not use air.” Again, they fail to explain how to connect said nitrogen or to provide any necessary adapters or tools to do this.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We are presented with a rather pressing dilemma, as you can imagine. Not only are the fan and ventilated motor still completely exposed to any inflammable vapors that may be present in such a work area (not to mention inside the pump), but some of the internal piston seals and gaskets are neoprene and therefore susceptible to chemical attack by the aliphatic hydrocarbons. Also, many of the metal parts of the pump are brass (of unknown origin and lead content, apparently from my conversations with CPS), normal steel, and aluminum—not stainless steel. [/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]This is not acceptable as product contact surface under most regulations[/FONT], but would normally not present any serious threat to consumer health. However, since the seals are being swollen and destroyed by chemical attack, the metal parts then begin to rub, creating metal dust which contaminates the solvent. So, these TR"S"-21 pumps can be extremely hazardous to the producer of the extracts and possibly even to the consumer.[/FONT]
[FONT="]CPS is still building and releasing these prototype (kindly) or counterfeit (truly) TRS pumps, now with stainless inlet and outlet flare fittings to further hide the fact that the internals are still just normal TR series components. Meanwhile their R&D is not even finished selecting and testing the new materials for the true TRS-21 seals and gaskets. Since CPS has not and does not seem willing to issue a recall, I think it is time to cut the cord.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The responsibility falls to Johnstone Supply (the only wholesale distributor that receives these TRS pumps from CPS) and/or Subzero Scientific (the only retail distributor that receives them from Johnstone and sells them to individuals) to issue recalls on the TRS-21 pumps. In light of this news, Subzero appears to be doing everything in their power to ensure their customers’ safety and satisfaction. They have not issued a recall as yet, but they are currently accepting returns for refund or replacement. Obviously, replacement with another TRS will not remedy the situation for very long, so I am keeping Subzero updated with what I learn in my research and experimentation while working freelance and pro-bono to develop a cost-effective pump with all the features we desire and will soon *require* when the FDA steps in.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Currently, the only certified explosion proof (NEMA 7 or 10 motor enclosure) refrigerant recovery pumps available are those produced by Wonfulay Mfg. in China, under their Chunmu brand. The $1200 Chunmu EP is a typical oil-filled hermetically sealed refrigeration compressor that is lubricated with food-grade hemp oil. Although the unit was designed with the botanical extraction community in mind, its oil-based configuration does allow some contamination of the recovered solvent with a small amount of hemp oil during each recovery. Thereby any extracts after distillation of that recovered solvent will contain the solvent’s quantity of hemp oil. The EP does significantly reduce the oil content and eliminates any particulate contaminants in the solvent with its drainable oil separator, but purists understandably want greater purity than the EP’s oil-based system and copper construction can provide for their mildly acidic resin and oil solutes. The $3200 Chunmu EP-OL is designed for the botanical extraction market with all stainless and PTFE contact surfaces, and an explosion proof motor and build. Though it is a smaller version of the Chunmu EP6000, a large customizable commercial hydrocarbon refrigerant recovery unit, the EP-OL is still a bit bigger and more costly than many customers really need or want.[/FONT]
[FONT="]There are currently NO refrigerant recovery pumps rated for recovery of inflammable hydrocarbon refrigerants (Class A2, A2L, A3 or otherwise) in the $500 to $1000 price range, NO "intrinsically safe" (rather than "explosion proof") recovery pumps on the market at all, and NO American manufacturers of recovery pumps willing to openly or apparently even fairly cater to the botanical extraction market, let alone the burgeoning cannabis industry that continues to open up, state by state.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am writing this today because the scientists, manufacturers, and consumers of cannabis and other botanical extracts have the same needs and rights to Safety, Identity, Strength, Quality and Purity of their products as anyone should expect and receive from other food, cosmetic and pharmaceutical industries. We have critical need for a U.S.-based manufacturer to step up and provide inflammable solvent recovery pumps that satisfy state and federal regulations for both workers’ and consumers’ safety.
[FONT="]Thank you for your attention.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
*IMPORTANT TRS-21 ANNOUNCEMENT*
[FONT="]*IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT*[/FONT]
[FONT="]Re: CPS TR-series and TRS-21 Refrigerant Recovery Pumps
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Re: CPS TR-series and TRS-21 Refrigerant Recovery Pumps
[/FONT]
[FONT="]As[FONT="] many of you already know, t[/FONT]he CPS Pro-Set TRS-21 is supposed to be a *spark-proof* refrigerant recovery pump with an *all stainless steel and PTFE compressor* designed to *vacuum in liquid hydrocarbon (mostly aliphatic) refrigerant vapor down to 29” Hg or more* and pump the vapor or liquid outat up to 550 psi.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Every specification about this pump highlighted in *asterisks* above is either patently false or else severely problematic within a short period of time with this pump.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Facts about the TRS-21 currently on the market:[/FONT]
[FONT="]The problems Subzero and their customers are experiencing with the TRS-21 pumps are due to a great deal of misinformation and I am guessing some very shady business practices by someone(s) at CPS. Yesterday, I was able to speak to a very reliable source, and found out why these TRS-21 pumps are NOT what they claim to be. Apparently the TRS-21 is still in prototype phase in their R&D, but due to the high demand for these pumps, some unscrupulous CPS employees decided to make a couple of simple (mainly cosmetic) modifications* to CPS’s TR-21, slap a cheaply printed and poorly cut out paper sticker saying “TRS-21” near the power switch (never mind that all other decals, instructions, and even the serial number still say “TR” or [/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]“TR-21”[/FONT]) and sell them as the “Sparkproof” TRS-21… for over twice the price of a TR-21, of course. [/FONT]- [FONT="]It is NOT spark proof.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]It is NOT an all stainless/PTFE (food contact safe) build.[/FONT]
- [FONT="]It is NOT rated, certified, or even designed to recover the inflammable hydrocarbon refrigerants for which it is sold, although stated by CPS.[/FONT]
[FONT="]*They hard wired the power cord (instead of leaving it removable with a 3-prong “computer cord” terminal) and shoddily applied caulk to some of the electrical contacts under the plastic housing on top of the TR-21’s motor. That’s it. Oh, and now it retails for $1,250 instead of $600.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Yeah…[/FONT]
[FONT="]At least they included a sheet of paper in the TR-21 instruction booklet with a couple of safety tips for working with inflammable class A2, A2L, and A3 refrigerants. They mention the need for a grounding strap between the pump body and recovery tank, for example. This strap is NOT provided, of course, despite the fact that all but a very few custom-made hoses sold for refrigerant recovery are non-conductive (which is not mentioned). They also say “…the system should be purged with 100% dry nitrogen. Do not use air.” Again, they fail to explain how to connect said nitrogen or to provide any necessary adapters or tools to do this.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We are presented with a rather pressing dilemma, as you can imagine. Not only are the fan and ventilated motor still completely exposed to any inflammable vapors that may be present in such a work area (not to mention inside the pump), but some of the internal piston seals and gaskets are neoprene and therefore susceptible to chemical attack by the aliphatic hydrocarbons. Also, many of the metal parts of the pump are brass (of unknown origin and lead content, apparently from my conversations with CPS), normal steel, and aluminum—not stainless steel. [/FONT][FONT="][FONT="]This is not acceptable as product contact surface under most regulations[/FONT], but would normally not present any serious threat to consumer health. However, since the seals are being swollen and destroyed by chemical attack, the metal parts then begin to rub, creating metal dust which contaminates the solvent. So, these TR"S"-21 pumps can be extremely hazardous to the producer of the extracts and possibly even to the consumer.[/FONT]
[FONT="]CPS is still building and releasing these prototype (kindly) or counterfeit (truly) TRS pumps, now with stainless inlet and outlet flare fittings to further hide the fact that the internals are still just normal TR series components. Meanwhile their R&D is not even finished selecting and testing the new materials for the true TRS-21 seals and gaskets. Since CPS has not and does not seem willing to issue a recall, I think it is time to cut the cord.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The responsibility falls to Johnstone Supply (the only wholesale distributor that receives these TRS pumps from CPS) and/or Subzero Scientific (the only retail distributor that receives them from Johnstone and sells them to individuals) to issue recalls on the TRS-21 pumps. In light of this news, Subzero appears to be doing everything in their power to ensure their customers’ safety and satisfaction. They have not issued a recall as yet, but they are currently accepting returns for refund or replacement. Obviously, replacement with another TRS will not remedy the situation for very long, so I am keeping Subzero updated with what I learn in my research and experimentation while working freelance and pro-bono to develop a cost-effective pump with all the features we desire and will soon *require* when the FDA steps in.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Currently, the only certified explosion proof (NEMA 7 or 10 motor enclosure) refrigerant recovery pumps available are those produced by Wonfulay Mfg. in China, under their Chunmu brand. The $1200 Chunmu EP is a typical oil-filled hermetically sealed refrigeration compressor that is lubricated with food-grade hemp oil. Although the unit was designed with the botanical extraction community in mind, its oil-based configuration does allow some contamination of the recovered solvent with a small amount of hemp oil during each recovery. Thereby any extracts after distillation of that recovered solvent will contain the solvent’s quantity of hemp oil. The EP does significantly reduce the oil content and eliminates any particulate contaminants in the solvent with its drainable oil separator, but purists understandably want greater purity than the EP’s oil-based system and copper construction can provide for their mildly acidic resin and oil solutes. The $3200 Chunmu EP-OL is designed for the botanical extraction market with all stainless and PTFE contact surfaces, and an explosion proof motor and build. Though it is a smaller version of the Chunmu EP6000, a large customizable commercial hydrocarbon refrigerant recovery unit, the EP-OL is still a bit bigger and more costly than many customers really need or want.[/FONT]
[FONT="]There are currently NO refrigerant recovery pumps rated for recovery of inflammable hydrocarbon refrigerants (Class A2, A2L, A3 or otherwise) in the $500 to $1000 price range, NO "intrinsically safe" (rather than "explosion proof") recovery pumps on the market at all, and NO American manufacturers of recovery pumps willing to openly or apparently even fairly cater to the botanical extraction market, let alone the burgeoning cannabis industry that continues to open up, state by state.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am writing this today because the scientists, manufacturers, and consumers of cannabis and other botanical extracts have the same needs and rights to Safety, Identity, Strength, Quality and Purity of their products as anyone should expect and receive from other food, cosmetic and pharmaceutical industries. We have critical need for a U.S.-based manufacturer to step up and provide inflammable solvent recovery pumps that satisfy state and federal regulations for both workers’ and consumers’ safety.
[FONT="]Thank you for your attention.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Great information. Cps is now releasing these pumps with a manual that states it is rated for r290 and r600. If it is truly not spark proof and in turn not rated for r290 or r600 than I imagine cps will be in hot water soon....right?
SubZero strikes again. Those guys a filled with misinformation......
As far as there not being a pump rated, I believe you are mistaken. The Haskel is spark proof, since its purely pneumatic, and also is rated for recovery of hydrocarbons.
Some good observations on misinformation!
I also agree we have the right and am pleased that our voice has not been ignored by all.
It sounds like CPS, a US manufacturer, has risen to the market window, if they are printing it on their destruction manuals and Haskel, another US manufacturer, has not only been there all along, they too are striving to adjust to our needs with design upgrades.
We are just now testing the CM EP OL, so have not yet formed an opinion, but if it works as good as it looks and sounds, we can potentially expand the list.
Even if it blows up, it is clear looking at their first offering, that they are dead serious, with other solid equipment in the field, and are a big enough player, that I predict they will make every effort to refine it until it stops breaking, so it is more a matter of time, than if.
I also predict that the increased business the players will enjoy, won't go unnoticed and if the current players don't plug the market window, more will follow until it is plugged.
Hee, hee, hee, saw a good saying by Betty White on one of the other forums, observing that while we tell others to grow balls, they are delicate sensitive things, so we should tell them to grow a vagina, because they take a pounding.
Where has CPS advertized these specifications? (or anyone else) Slamming CPS with accusations like this serves nobody...
Modifying these pumps so they can't produce an arcing switch contact is what CPS has done, nothing more.
Unless the ENTIRE ROOM where you are extracting in has every single electrical component meet explosion proof specification having an explosion proof pump is completely irrelevant. Butane vapor will likely get blown away from the pump and settle in another area if there is a leak.
This sounds Waaay to much like the fearmongering another extractor company was trying to push recently.
Aluminum has not been shown to react with extracts, and certainly won't react to gaseous butane.
The CPS already has a PTFE based piston ring and wear ring.
The CPs only has o-rings in contact with butane for the head to cylinder seal and the plugs sealing the valves. Due to the temperature I seriously doubt neoprene is being used...
The assertion about the TR21S being "extremely hazardous" is utter bullshit.
The Chinese pump that is lubricated with "hemp oil" is a joke. There is little chance the compressor is ACTUALLY lubed with pure hemp oil without additives. If you believe that one I have a bridge to sell you.
You also forgot the Caresaver, but that is also unfit for extraction use despite some people selling it as such.
The current US extract market is a wild west affair and nearly completely unregulated. The last thing small producers want is the FDA getting involved.
FDA regulated extracts will likely put small extractors out of business. Getting FDA certification will cost a huge amount just to get to the point dietary supplements are.
Getting full pharmaceutical certification will cost much, much more.
What really bothers me is crap like this:
None of this can be substantiated, and if there was any truth to that CPS would have their lawyers all over the people distributing the pumps. If you are going to make statements like this at least have the professionalism to back it up with a photo of said flaws at a minimum.
CPS has never tried to push these as "food grade" and hide anything.
RB
Thanks GW, that's awesome. Not to mention the unwritten power they wield...
