CPS TR21 users get in here!!

[EpicExtracts]

So I just recently got the mkIIIa all set up. Received a brand new TR21 from Century Tools.

I first did a vacuum check on the whole system and found a leak. Leak determined to be coming from the Mastercool 50lb tank.

Went to an HVAC store and got an Ecotech 50lb tank. Solid build, very impressed with the tank. Vacuum tested the system again. Held vacuum after 24hrs.

Used the TR21 to pump 70 psi into the whole system, including the tank and MT69. It slowly leaked down, slow leak over several hours. Never hit 0. But I didn't let it. I left the system hooked up but I isolated via valves(tank, MT69 and TR21 as a whole) and the mkIIIa by itself. The gauge was on the mkIIIa. At this point I left them over night.

When I woke up, the mkIIIa still had the original 55psi I left in it. However after opening the valves to reintegrate the two systems. the remaining pressure in the pump, MT69 and recovery pump had dissipated over night and thus equalized with the remaining pressure from the mkIIIa.(I could hear pressure hiss into the tank)

So I isolated the tank and pumped it up. It held pressure fine.

Threw the gauge on the MT69 "out", while the "in" was hooked to the TR21, pumped it up and capped the "in" to the TR21. Low and behold it leaked. So I put the gauge directly on the output of the TR21 and sure enough, that is where the leak is coming from.

The TR21 will build pressure. While the TR21 is pumping pressure straight into the gauge, I cap the input. Obviously pressure stops building. I then turn off the TR21 and watch the gauge. PSI slowly drops.

Have any of you witnessed this same issue? I know several other folks here are running the same system. I would appreciate any insight. Sorry if I rambled, I tried to include every detail I went through. I am sitting stagnant right now awaiting a response from CPS.

 

[Gray Wolf]

It would not surprise me that a TR-21 would bleed off overnight. It uses simple poppet valves.

 

[BigJohnny]

I haven't noticed any pressure losses anywhere and I've had a system under vac for almost a week.

 

[EpicExtracts]

I haven't noticed any pressure losses anywhere and I've had a system under vac for almost a week.

Try pumping at least 50psi into your system and report back please.

 

[EpicExtracts]

It would not surprise me that a TR-21 would bleed off overnight. It uses simple poppet valves.

I called customer support and he advised me to use two tanks, one on the inlet side and one on the outlet side. Pressurize one tank and see if it just leaks through the system to the other side. I will say this, I pumped up the outlet side again and put my finger over the inlet. When I released my finger a little air pressure came out.

Unfortunately I now have my filter drier and 3/8" adapter on the inlet side and haven't got another adapter to hook up my second tank. I do not want to remove them and sacrifice the copper washers. SO rather than a second tank, I just have a length of 3/8" hose with a ball valve at the end to see what happens. I have already lost around 15psi overnight though and I doubt a 50lb tank would drop that low just filling up a 3/8" refrigerant hose. Only time will tell if it continues to leak down.

It is a VERY, VERY slow leak. Would you run it anyway?

 

[Gray Wolf]

I called customer support and he advised me to use two tanks, one on the inlet side and one on the outlet side. Pressurize one tank and see if it just leaks through the system to the other side. I will say this, I pumped up the outlet side again and put my finger over the inlet. When I released my finger a little air pressure came out.

Unfortunately I now have my filter drier and 3/8" adapter on the inlet side and haven't got another adapter to hook up my second tank. I do not want to remove them and sacrifice the copper washers. SO rather than a second tank, I just have a length of 3/8" hose with a ball valve at the end to see what happens. I have already lost around 15psi overnight though and I doubt a 50lb tank would drop that low just filling up a 3/8" refrigerant hose. Only time will tell if it continues to leak down.

It is a VERY, VERY slow leak. Would you run it anyway?

A slow leak through a poppet valve shouldn't be an issue. I would run and check for compressed air in the tank afterwards.

 

[transplanted]

EpicExtracts, I just switched over from my Appion G5 to a CPS TR21 due to the safety issues, had the Appion outside pressure gauge fluttering hard the last night I used it and shaking really bad, and that was it for the G5... First run with the TR21 tonight and the outside line to the tank was getting very hot as well as getting the top of the tank hot. The tank fittings were running about 114F. And the fitting on the pump was at 125 F, with the line running up to about 95. Is this normal for the TR21? I ordered the MT69 CPS Recovery Submersible Subcooler and hope that this will help fix the problem. I will run my pressure test on Friday when it gets in and see if I have the same issue. I know the rest of my system is fine as I have been working it 3-5 days a week for the last month or so without any issues other than I changed my hoses around and turned the valve with the red hose which is what I had previously hooked up to my vacuum pump, but was currently hooked up to the Recovery Tank... Need to bleed it out again. And thinking this might have had something to do with the heat issue as well. Anyway, sorry for going on, I will let you know how my subcooler works and whether I have the same problem. Think GW is probably right in that it's the poppet valves, the subcooler is designed to have a constant pressure flowing through it and not to just hold pressure.

 

[jpdnkstr]

Why is the cps tr21 "safer than the Appion? If you could only have 1 recovery pump without an aftercooler which would you choose? I am trying to design a cls that is as safe as possible(from an operator standpoint, and product quality), without going the Haskel route(not enough $$$$$)!

 

[IlDeuceIV]

Why is the cps tr21 "safer than the Appion? If you could only have 1 recovery pump without an aftercooler which would you choose? I am trying to design a cls that is as safe as possible(from an operator standpoint, and product quality), without going the Haskel route(not enough $$$$$)!

I would say than an aftercooler is required with the TR21, if you don't want an aftercooler the ProMax is better than the Appion (cheaper, easy repairs).

 

[BigJohnny]

EpicExtracts, I just switched over from my Appion G5 to a CPS TR21 due to the safety issues, had the Appion outside pressure gauge fluttering hard the last night I used it and shaking really bad, and that was it for the G5... First run with the TR21 tonight and the outside line to the tank was getting very hot as well as getting the top of the tank hot. The tank fittings were running about 114F. And the fitting on the pump was at 125 F, with the line running up to about 95. Is this normal for the TR21? I ordered the MT69 CPS Recovery Submersible Subcooler and hope that this will help fix the problem. I will run my pressure test on Friday when it gets in and see if I have the same issue. I know the rest of my system is fine as I have been working it 3-5 days a week for the last month or so without any issues other than I changed my hoses around and turned the valve with the red hose which is what I had previously hooked up to my vacuum pump, but was currently hooked up to the Recovery Tank... Need to bleed it out again. And thinking this might have had something to do with the heat issue as well. Anyway, sorry for going on, I will let you know how my subcooler works and whether I have the same problem. Think GW is probably right in that it's the poppet valves, the subcooler is designed to have a constant pressure flowing through it and not to just hold pressure.

Our TR21 runs at 160F where it says "HOT" and yes the lines do get very hot.

The auto ignition temperature of butane is 405F and that increases as oxygen decreases, and vice versa.

BAsically if you're using a TR21 you NEED the MT69. I'm pretty sure after CPS made the TR21 they said "wow that gets hot....we better find a way to fix it." and viola, a copper coil was born.

There is a significant difference in the temp of the hose on the IN side of the MT69 and the OUT side, with the OUT side being much much cooler.

Hours of use will still warm the tank, but the additional heat helps to prevent the valves from freezing at the tank..... at least for us, we keep our recovery tank in a chest freezer 24/7.

We keep a jug of 99% ISO in the freezer as well, and thats what we put the MT69 into once we start the run.

do not keep the MT69 frozen, it hinders more than it helps. Just put it into the cold alcohol or salt/ice water bath a few mins after you start running.

 

[gliders420]

so the leak was ok? im considering switching from app ion to this...tired of replacing seals...

 

[Dab Strudel]

Im joining the (used) TR21 club. I also have 3 appions and a promax, im looking to connect them all to 2 collection pots, appions on one and the 2 on the other. Should I T the vac port on my system or should I run them one after another? I ask because GW just built somet kind of cooler that looks like it takes the vacs separately, thus making me feel like I have to T it on my vac out port. But do they make a + to tee off or do i T a T? I can't wait to build this tri coil chiller.

 

[EpicExtracts]

so the leak was ok? im considering switching from app ion to this...tired of replacing seals...

Yeah, I've had no issues with it so far.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Im joining the (used) TR21 club. I also have 3 appions and a promax, im looking to connect them all to 2 collection pots, appions on one and the 2 on the other. Should I T the vac port on my system or should I run them one after another? I ask because GW just built somet kind of cooler that looks like it takes the vacs separately, thus making me feel like I have to T it on my vac out port. But do they make a + to tee off or do i T a T? I can't wait to build this tri coil chiller.

We have teed three of them together using a 1" cross with bushings down to the 1/2" hose size.

The heat exchangers can be set up to cool each stream separately, or all in one.

 

[Dab Strudel]

Trying to figure out the lengths of coils I want, id rather do 3 separate coils to coll more surface area. 3-50'x3/8" coils would be a considerable amount of tane so maybe 2 30' and one 20' or would that not cool enough for cryogenic temperatures?

 

[FatherEarth]

whats the total on a haskel setup? Compressor included...? also decibel rating in operation?

 

[generalgrievous]

Our TR21 runs at 160F where it says "HOT" and yes the lines do get very hot.

The auto ignition temperature of butane is 405F and that increases as oxygen decreases, and vice versa.

BAsically if you're using a TR21 you NEED the MT69. I'm pretty sure after CPS made the TR21 they said "wow that gets hot....we better find a way to fix it." and viola, a copper coil was born.

There is a significant difference in the temp of the hose on the IN side of the MT69 and the OUT side, with the OUT side being much much cooler.

Hours of use will still warm the tank, but the additional heat helps to prevent the valves from freezing at the tank..... at least for us, we keep our recovery tank in a chest freezer 24/7.

We keep a jug of 99% ISO in the freezer as well, and thats what we put the MT69 into once we start the run.

do not keep the MT69 frozen, it hinders more than it helps. Just put it into the cold alcohol or salt/ice water bath a few mins after you start running.

.. where in the loop does the mt69 go..? .. I'm gonna guess in between the pump 'out' and manifold 'high side' ..

.. what is the benefit of using ISO for the bath..? ..what temp does it get to in the freezer ..6° I be thinking..


I'm currently waiting for the mt 69 and the tr21 to land fed ex ..my trooper of an appion just popped a leak after 50+ complete runs ..I thought it would never happen.. but glad I stick to pre extraction protocol..

.. thnx for the help. ..

 

[SouthernOregonM]

I took the blow off guards off the two we have and they are running considerably cooler with the cover off. I am talking about the cover with slot vents under the head of the pump. This is to block ant fragmentation or high presume blow-offs from injuring anyone. Our crew wear eye protection now as well.

 

[JColtrane]

Not sure I'd recommend removing any protective plate ... but, on second thought, you're using protective gear, so it's all good

 

[SouthernOregonM]

Not sure I'd recommend removing any protective plate ... but, on second thought, you're using protective gear, so it's all good

We locate the pump above eye level and in a direction where blow-offs would not be a big deal. Also, removal of this cover allows for much cooler operating conditions inside the electronics compartment and we did not get the browning or cracking wires on our second pump as we did on the first with the cover on. The long running times is not good for the electronics do to the heat and now this is not a problem. If seals blew anyone directly in front of the pump would be hit with gasses blowing off with the cover on anyway due to the air vents.