Chitosan

[Naut.s.33]

It probably depends on how it comes. The stuff i got is so fine it seems hydrophobic. The stuff i have is ultra fine and is about 1/2 tsp = .5 grams. Thats is with my little black plastic 1/2 tsp . Granted i dont know how accurate my spoon is. I have other ones that i use for actual meseuring. Just get out the scale boi

 

[Kygiacomo!!!]

yah. Oligosaccharides are just large complex carbon (sugar) chains.

i just made my first chitosan mix today.

1l distilled water, 20g Chitosan, 8g Thiamin Chloride (Vitamin B1), 10g salicylic acid.

This is supposed some kind of a Scorpion Juice Ripoff recipe.

this is a damn good recipe.i use all those as well.. i used insect frass and bud factor x for chitosan this year. i used B52 as well which is good. my good veg recipe is .5 tsp of vitazyme,1tsp of insect frass,5ml of b-52 and 1/8th of aloe. im also a big believer in rock dusts and good mineral mix's... i my mineral mix with is with these,this year and did awesome :azomite,baslat,oyster shell,gypsum, with a 1 pound of diamtoanicus earth powder added for plant avaliable silica.

 

[Naut.s.33]

Here is that link.... CHITOSAN!! http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866471/

 

[RetroGrow]

I recently switched to pro-biotic organic soil from coco and I'm wondering if the chitosan oligosaccharide is considered organic? Will it kill any of my soil life?

Chitosan should not kill any of the microherd....

 

[RetroGrow]

with a 1 pound of diamtoanicus earth powder added for plant avaliable silica.

Just FYI, if you want silica for your plants, use liquid silica. Diatomaceous earth is not water soluble, and will not provide silica in any significant amounts.
Nice recipe though....

 

[juzsumguy]

That recipe was just googled and is not based on my knowledge. Just google "Scorpion Juice Ingredients".

I only use slightly less than what is recommended in the mix.


OO didn't you at some points also advised people to use salycic acid? I also think i read somewhere that Chitosans "abilities" get enhanced when adding SA.

 

[juzsumguy]

Also, i first thought of using aloe vera juice instead of water and the salycic acid, since aloe has SA as well.

But since i'm not a über geek and have ruined quite a lot of nutrient solutions with experiments i thought i use what people seemed to like, that was Scorpion Juice or Budfactor X as a Chit-product.

 

[Only Ornamental]

...
OO didn't you at some points also advised people to use salycic acid? I also think i read somewhere that Chitosans "abilities" get enhanced when adding SA.

Right, if you want a SAR response, then you should combine them. Else, no, don't do it .

Here a copy-paste of a PN I sent to someone asking me for an explanation (me being lazy tonight, sorry):

Correct, SA alone does already trigger a SAR response. Chitosan is like before the crossroad, it puts the plant in orange alert and it's up to the plant to decide which way, SAR or ISR, to go. Adding a trigger such as SA or JA (= jasmonic acid, a derivative thereof is the active ingredient in JAZ Rose Spray) with chitosan forces the pathway into one specific direction and, as chitosan acts as primer, the reaction will be stronger than SA or JA alone. This is why I wouldn't apply chitosan and SA to plants unless there's an imminent threat requiring a SAR response. That one's known to cause a trade-off BTW. Meaning, the yield goes down... Growing outdoors especially on poor soil or guerilla will result in healthier plants and hence yield is increased compared to untreated plants under similar conditions whereas growing under "sterile" and "perfect" indoor conditions will only result in plants using their resources for war instead of growth and the warfare machinery of SA isn't what we are looking for in good herb. Theoretically, it's the same with JA and ISR but these lead to increased trichome production and a stimulated terpenoid production as a means of defence. Simply put, what you loose in growth you'll gain in THC-% and the net effect is even regarded as beneficial by growers.
The stupid thing is, that JA and SA are mutually antagonistic and you can't have them both at the same time... using chitosan is one (besides certain kelp extracts and microbe-containing stuff the only well established one I know of) possibility to prime your plants for threats requiring SAR or ISR. Hence, it increases the chances that your plants win the battle no matter what they have to fight. In the absence of any stress it still seems as if there were a benefit from applying chitosan without a negative trade-off; don't ask me why. Possibly because the ISR pathway is somewhat preferred?

 

[juzsumguy]

Right ...

lol it's always the same the more i learn/do the more confused i get.

But i can follow you and i hope to understand why JA is preferred. I just thought, heck may AN has thought about what they do, they also spoke of SAR in the product description and the advise to use all the way through flower. I already expected the trade of so i would only apply after bulking has finished.

Where can i source JA in Europe, Germany in particular. Haven't found anything after a quick ebay google hunt.

Also, at what dosage would i mix it, if i want to make a 1l premix like i did with my current recipe. Also use B1 aswell then or not with JA?

 

[juzsumguy]

Also could u explain a little why SAR doesn't lead to more trichs and terps? i thought it would do.

 

[juzsumguy]

ok so i read up some articles now on JA.

They say that it also matters where JA is applied. If applied to stem or green leaf material defense against herbivores is increased but no additional oil/nectar production in flowers. If applied to the flowers itself, oil/nectar production increases significantly (tests done on raps). also they seem to grow faster in bloom if applied early on young flowers.

Venkatesan Radhika, Christian Kost, Wilhelm Boland, Martin Heil: The role of jasmonates in floral nectar secretion. PLoS ONE 5, e9265, 2010

Weitere Informationen von:
)

So besides the question where do i get JA, should it be only applied to flowers or into the root zone in the nutrient solution?

Also would a chit SA mix only applied to flowers be equally beneficial?

And could you take a look in the tria thread i dropped a question there i hope u can help with as well?

thx.

 

[Terpz]

Thanks again, OO.

If no direct threat to the plant, do you see any benefit in adding SA alone (or without chitosan)? Could activating the SAR effect by use of SA effect plants negatively if used too often?
So essentially, salicylic acid/ chitosan/ harpin protein effect plants the same? What is the difference between systemic acquired and induced systemic?
At times, I think I understand and then other times I'm completely lost. And you guys come along and show me the light!
I learn best by coloring books and cartoons...

 

[MoPho]

I heard that applying Jas Rose spray affects yield in a negative way. Also it's a bad idea in a perpetual garden because even if you spray it on one plant, that plant will trigger a stress hormone signaling the other plants to do the same. <---that's what I read in other thread on IC.

 

[shaggyballs]

What is the difference between systemic acquired and induced systemic?

OO lets me do his light work from time to time, although I am dumb as a stump, I have learned a lot from that guy!

Trying to keep up with him is another story.

You may find your answer here:
Methods of inducing Local Acquired Resistance and Induced Systemic Resistance

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=275670


Shag

 

[MoPho]

So besides the question where do i get JA, should it be only applied to flowers or into the root zone in the nutrient solution?

http://www.jazsprays.com/JAZ-Rose-Spray_p_8.html

 

[Only Ornamental]

Or get the pure compound at perfumersapprentice.com .

Regarding negative effects of JA: It all depends on the amount/concentration used! Too much is bad! Shaggy might be able to tell you more (what was it you got? Wheat? LoL).

You guys should simply try the different possibilities; it's the best way to see what works for your plants under your conditions. As good as no common grow is really perfect and hence, there may always be a certain benefit to a lot of "hypothetically useless" additives cause theory, physical laws, science, and numbers are unable to predict real life and it's the latter, not the former, which messes up your yields!
It's usually about observations and extrapolations of "should-bes" and these are only correct in a statistical way, if you get what I mean.

 

[shaggyballs]

Regarding negative effects of JA: It all depends on the amount/concentration used! Too much is bad! Shaggy might be able to tell you more (what was it you got? Wheat? LoL).

OO is right I sprayed really heavy Jaz spray over and over.
My trichome production was very high but the plant grew like a stalk of wheat 1 calyx right side 1 calyx left side ect. T'was foxtail city but coved in resin.

I was using other products like Triacontanol and others too so I can not say for sure it was all due to too much Jaz.

But if I give it a go again I would use tiny doses multiple times late after bulk up is finished.

Good luck all, I have not got it figured out yet but that is my best guess.

P.S. The wheat got you stoned, but very low production and bag appeal.

Peace Y'all
Shag

 

[BubbaBear]

I've had something similar happen with over doing chitosan, frosty ass hell but it affected yield so bad the buds practically looked like wheat. I've heard the guys that make Axiom harpin protein say to apply a light mist the plant, not drench or it could stress the plant. So its safe to say thats the general rule for jaz, chitosan and harpin protein

 

[shaggyballs]

I've had something similar happen with over doing chitosan, frosty ass hell but it affected yield so bad the buds practically looked like wheat. I've heard the guys that make Axiom harpin protein say to apply a light mist the plant, not drench or it could stress the plant. So its safe to say thats the general rule for jaz, chitosan and harpin protein

wow, you got the wheat too, now you got me thinkin snow storm may be chitosan, cause i did use a bunch of that but thought it to be triacontanol at the time....hmm now that is interesting bubba bear!

I may try to grow it again now that I have chitosan and use Jaz and chitosan.

coool!

:Smoke out:
Shag

 

[down2grow]

A member mentioned a product in some thread- I think it was Stormshadow. Anywho I bought and have been using this product for 3 months in my perpetual grow. Haven't done side X sides but I noticed a huge jump in resin and frost and maybe yield from the chitosan me thinks. It's called Jump Start and made by Grow More. It contains chitosan made from King Crab. You will not see it listed on the bottle and it takes some googling to find this out. I use it at 1ml/gal. I think it's $23 a quart and I'm still on my first bottle. Good shit

Stoned,

Are you still using Grow More Jump Start? Been reading about this and chitosan the pass few days and I think I'm gonna have to order a bottle. For those who are foliar feeding (chitosan, bud factor x, canna boost), when are you guys spraying? Some people prefer to do it right before lights on and some right before lights off. Just seeing what you guys prefer cause I'm gonna order an atomizer sprayer as well.

Thanks in advance!

D2G