Building a detached Shop/garage Grow 40 X 60? 55k Budget

[Marc Maron]

After some much more thinking and planning. I'd like to say I'm making progress.

So... Today I bring you. DIY Detached Garage 30' x 44' x 10' or 12' 1,320sqft Trying to keep the cost of the building right at 50k. 40k Would be a lot nicer tho

$9,000 3x 36k BTU Mitsubishi MY-D36NA-1 ONE FOR EACH ROOM

$3,000 2x 12k BTU Mitsubishi MZ-GL12NA ONE FOR EACH FLOWER ROOM

$5000-$10,000 9 or 18 Gavitas DE and bulbs/ I might just start with half depending on budget

$2,000 To add new Power/ 200 amp service?

$2,760.00 2 Santa Fe Advance 2 Dehumidifiers. Don't know what one to get

$810 2 Sentinel GPS ICG-30 CO2 Generator - One for each Flower room?

$2,000 To add a big propane tank outside of garage

$1,000 Clones. But kinda tempted to get seeds and actually have a clue what I have. They closed all the dispensaries here in Washington
$1,000 Nutrients?

$760 2 Sentinel GPS CPPM-4i Fuzzy Logic CO2 Controller

$600 Light controllers?

$500 Oscillating Fans Air King 9018 Commercial

$1,500 For other stuff

Total $84,930 For 2 Flower rooms and Veg

Still think I should just do a run with one flower room just in case I run into any problems. Plus, If everything goes according to plan. I'll have my hands full with 18lbs.

Would really like to get a Twister trimmer and a terppextractor.

Gonna have to wait for those for now sadly.

 

[Marc Maron]

Oh. Forgot to post this

 

[queequeg152]

dude, if you are price sensitive, then get a conventional split unit.

ive gone over this a dozen times in other threads that you have probably not seen, but mini splits are amazing for variable load conditions, but they are wasted in static load conditions such as your grow rooms.

you also are showing a total of > 100k btuh for 18kwh???

are you planning on 0 insulation or something? if so that is insanely unwise...

look up your IBC reccomended insulation values for new construction and start there.

here in houston, its r19 walls and r41 for ceilings i believe.

for your ceiling, in your area, i suggest getting a fat raised heel truss, and blow atleast like r60 onto stapled insulation netting, then furring out, then a 5/8" drywall ceiling. you will get like r62 minus the thermal bridges along the truss struts. the netting allows you to make changes to the drywall without dropping 50 cubic feet of cellulose first.

for your ac units, you should just get a single stage residential unit. will cost literally 1/2 to 1/3rd as much per ton.

air handlers? you CAN use cassettes if you want, but they suck ass.

just get some cheap 30 gauge duct fabricated, and priority zone your room with the most demand, with a barometric dump back into your primary when the secondary zone actuator closes.

 

[Loc Dog]

For the crazy amount of money you are spending on AC, plus the electric to run them, you could build state of the art LED's that would not need hardly an AC. Might cost a little more, but pays for itself in about a year. No changing bulbs a couple of times a year, and they will last at least 10 years.

Look at these -

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333629

Watch all 7 video's, although it is already outdated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlM5uvO7sao&list=PLFeGgzTAA8vkzWTM7SWiQPlYAhNe3GMGi

Vero 29 Gen 7's are the state of the art at moment. You would want 80 - 100 kits -

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3122

 

[Marc Maron]

dude, if you are price sensitive, then get a conventional split unit.

ive gone over this a dozen times in other threads that you have probably not seen, but mini splits are amazing for variable load conditions, but they are wasted in static load conditions such as your grow rooms.

you also are showing a total of > 100k btuh for 18kwh???

are you planning on 0 insulation or something? if so that is insanely unwise...

look up your IBC reccomended insulation values for new construction and start there.

here in houston, its r19 walls and r41 for ceilings i believe.

for your ceiling, in your area, i suggest getting a fat raised heel truss, and blow atleast like r60 onto stapled insulation netting, then furring out, then a 5/8" drywall ceiling. you will get like r62 minus the thermal bridges along the truss struts. the netting allows you to make changes to the drywall without dropping 50 cubic feet of cellulose first.

for your ac units, you should just get a single stage residential unit. will cost literally 1/2 to 1/3rd as much per ton.

air handlers? you CAN use cassettes if you want, but they suck ass.

just get some cheap 30 gauge duct fabricated, and priority zone your room with the most demand, with a barometric dump back into your primary when the secondary zone actuator closes.

I had a great night last night once I found out y'all just saved me like $5,000+ I can not express how thankful I am for you all stopping by and saving me from some huge mistakes.

It's fun never seen myself as an HVAC guy. But I guess I am now.

Yes the whole place is going to be insulated R-38 ceiling and R-20 for the walls.

What AC unit would you suggest?

 

[Marc Maron]

sounds like a pipe dream, your going to need to get results in a smaller environment.. then expand if you want to succeed, anything but top shelf isn't worth much.

I'm quite confident in myself. I have a few seasons under my belt. I have to build the garage as big as a can. Why wouldn't I

 

[Marc Maron]

For the crazy amount of money you are spending on AC, plus the electric to run them, you could build state of the art LED's that would not need hardly an AC. Might cost a little more, but pays for itself in about a year. No changing bulbs a couple of times a year, and they will last at least 10 years.

Look at these -

Great videos! Very interesting stuff. I've thought about DIY COBS leds before, I probably should bite the bullet and do it.

I think it cost around $550 for Gavitas 1000 DE

I just need to figure out how much it'll cost to either DIY COBS or right out buy an LED light setup. My guess is....I'll be DIY'ing this haha

 

[queequeg152]

For the crazy amount of money you are spending on AC, plus the electric to run them, you could build state of the art LED's that would not need hardly an AC. Might cost a little more, but pays for itself in about a year. No changing bulbs a couple of times a year, and they will last at least 10 years.

Look at these -

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333629

Watch all 7 video's, although it is already outdated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlM5uvO7sao&list=PLFeGgzTAA8vkzWTM7SWiQPlYAhNe3GMGi

Vero 29 Gen 7's are the state of the art at moment. You would want 80 - 100 kits -

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3122

bullshit.

led's simply waste less power... both in not illuminating spectrums that the plants dont care about... and also in converting electricity to light.

they still need cooling commensurate with their wattage.

there is a profound misunderstanding of thermodynamics on this board, and an in the population as a whole... generally speaking.

work in = work out + heat.

in a closed environment, 'work out' itself becomes heat, unless you are storing this work in some manner like charging a battery or compressing a spring. yes a very very small amount is stored in the plants themselves, but its so small that you dont bother even including it in calculations.

so in a closed environment its pretty much 1:1

watts electricity input = watts of heat output. you will still need an AC system inside any closed off room filled with LED's... to say otherwise is uninformed to say the least.

 

[Marc Maron]

bullshit.

Yeah, I was going to add... That LED are more for side projects. They are more efficient. But for the start up cost for the size I'm doing is just going to break my budget.

 

[queequeg152]

What AC unit would you suggest?

if you are going to be installing them yourself?

a cheapie goodman is probably the easiest to get ahold of.

high end brands like tranes and carriers are for the most part, segregated from the public via deals that the distributors make with installers.

alot of the trane distributers wont even sign you up if you move less than like 100k worth of equipment a year. and you have to meet their quality criteria etc.

most other brands you can get from pretty much any supplier including online ones... though id caution you from buying an online unit. handling the warrantee shit is often disastrous.

some online places are insanely cheap though... like 500 bucks lower than local, plus they ship freight free? idk how the fuck they do that, but i just bought an ECM air handler from flordia because it was so much fucking cheaper than locally.

an air handler is a fucking air handler though... just a blower motor and a tiny little controller board.

a fucking condensing unit is all together a much more complicated thing.

if you are going to be handling refrigerant, i highly reccomend that you get your EPA section 608 certification. it will give you the rudiments of refrigeration systems, and most supply houses will not even talk to you without one.

i got mine studying during lunch hours and some time on my own... and half that studying was memorizing the PT charts that turns out... they GIVE YOU during the fucking test... i studied maby 20 hours max, probably closer to 10 though. its not hard at all.

 

[Marc Maron]

if you are going to be installing them yourself?

a cheapie goodman is probably the easiest to get ahold of.

high end brands like tranes and carriers are for the most part, segregated from the public via deals that the distributors make with installers.

alot of the trane distributers wont even sign you up if you move less than like 100k worth of equipment a year. and you have to meet their quality criteria etc.

most other brands you can get from pretty much any supplier including online ones... though id caution you from buying an online unit. handling the warrantee shit is often disastrous.

some online places are insanely cheap though... like 500 bucks lower than local, plus they ship freight free? idk how the fuck they do that, but i just bought an ECM air handler from flordia because it was so much fucking cheaper than locally.

an air handler is a fucking air handler though... just a blower motor and a tiny little controller board.

a fucking condensing unit is all together a much more complicated thing.

if you are going to be handling refrigerant, i highly reccomend that you get your EPA section 608 certification. it will give you the rudiments of refrigeration systems, and most supply houses will not even talk to you without one.

i got mine studying during lunch hours and some time on my own... and half that studying was memorizing the PT charts that turns out... they GIVE YOU during the fucking test... i studied maby 20 hours max, probably closer to 10 though. its not hard at all.

Goodman was pretty much the only one I could find online.

Section 608 sounds like a fun project. On the edge on this one tho. Sorta feel like I should hire an HVAC company to do it for me. But, the money saved could save my day if I DIY. But AC is one thing I would not like to worry about in the summer. We get 95+ here

Just wondering. What are the air handlers for? Isn't that just an inline fan?

 

[Loc Dog]

But AC is one thing I would not like to worry about in the summer. We get 95+ here

Could have sworn I saw you were in Washington. Had no idea it got that hot there.

 

[Marc Maron]

Could have sworn I saw you were in Washington. Had no idea it got that hot there.

Central Washington is a desert. I think last year Phoenix had more rain than where I'm at. Bunch of Wineries and stuff like that here. Everyone Pictures Seattle.

But this is where I am

 

[Loc Dog]

Gavita's have the ballast attached to light. With DIY LED the drivers (equivalent of ballast) can be mounted outside the grow room. Newest LED's are very efficient in lumens to watts and throw light in one direction. They can also be spread for more even light distribution. Also LED's can be much closer, without burning plants. This chart might be useful -

 

[mojave green]

In the desert? I'd swamp cool that bitch and save a ton of money!

 

[Marc Maron]

Gavita's have the ballast attached to light. With DIY LED the drivers (equivalent of ballast) can be mounted outside the grow room. Newest LED's are very efficient in lumens to watts and throw light in one direction. They can also be spread for more even light distribution.

See now that sounds ideal.

In the desert? I'd swamp cool that bitch and save a ton of money!

I'm really just sitting here. Thinking WTF. What do I get So many options for everything

 

[Loc Dog]

Here is the definition of swamp cooler that Mojave Green mentioned. To be in the gold range of VPD chart, it makes a lot of sense -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

What is your typical relative humidity??

 

[Loc Dog]

If you are considering LED's, run it passed Dion on this thread. He is the resident expert -

https://www.icmag.com/ic/member.php?u=440987

I have not implemented them yet. A month ago CXB3590's were the way to go, now it is Vero 29 gen 7's. Many do not have them in stock, but should be getting anytime now. I do not know your timeframe, but should probably buy them as late as possible, since price could drop, or competition may release something else.

I just got this from Cutter. I am just starting to research them, and am waiting for Dion to give his opinion, and how to drive them -

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut3126&utm_source=Lighting&utm_campaign=3907937f9d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_01_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_00ff5ddb60-3907937f9d-215412557

You would need a lot of them, but they are very inexpensive, and do not require heatsinks which are about $50 for Vero 29's. Creating and hanging grids to mount them to would require some work.

Another consideration about the Gavita DE's is the bulb cost. Many replace after 2 grows, and they are over $100 a bulb.

 

[Marc Maron]

If I was to go with LEDS. I could keep my garage simple and have it 8ft tall.

Save myself from some added work

Also, Would spend less on AC space wise. Sounds like a win/win.

 

[Loc Dog]

If I was to go with LEDS. I could keep my garage simple and have it 8ft tall.

Save myself from some added work

Also, Would spend less on AC space wise. Sounds like a win/win.

Dion said that the new LED strips in the link I posted above are not good enough. The Vero 29 gen 7's are the way to go, and 3500K has been giving better results than 3000K, which HPS is.