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Another school shooting
- Thread starter shithawk420
- Start date
brown_thumb
Active member
My son is empowered to defend his own life in his own home. Is yours?
Green Squall
Well-known member
I remember a while back, the Aussie Ambassador to the United States said the Australian gun model would not work in the United States. Besides having it as a right in out constitution, its ingrained in out culture.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/26/gun-culture-in-us-different-says-australian-ambassador.html
P
Pinnate
My son lives where he doesn't need that kind of defense...or any?
That's the balance of how you feel about your own security, and that of your loved ones. Your own ability to defend yourself and them from common foes, stacked against what main-stream society is dictating in legally disarming the populace.
Is it better to have it .....even though you might not use it?
.....Is it better to have the option to have some real deterrent in the unlikely event that you may well need it?
....And when/if the world turns all apocalyptic would you rather go quietly as lambs to the slaughter, or try and eeek out a living and potentially have more options for survival.......armed?
Is it better to have it .....even though you might not use it?
.....Is it better to have the option to have some real deterrent in the unlikely event that you may well need it?
....And when/if the world turns all apocalyptic would you rather go quietly as lambs to the slaughter, or try and eeek out a living and potentially have more options for survival.......armed?
I couldn't have said it better myself....
As far as this recent guy's pipe bombs not going off, and maybe he would have ensured they work if he didn't have a gun...unlikely. Successful bomb making is a more careful process than simply grabbing a gun. Militants blow themselves up regularly trying to make them. Bomb threats are way more successful than actual use. American public has had general knowledge of pipe bombs for fifty years or so, and, I think, there have been way more attempts and threats than actual destruction.
Just for one more detail, there is no "control" whatsoever over black powder weapons purchase. Cash and carry. And they are not all single shot instruments. Again, probably something too obscure for the typical "mass shooter" to employ, but they are definitely more dangerous than a fork.
Just for one more detail, there is no "control" whatsoever over black powder weapons purchase. Cash and carry. And they are not all single shot instruments. Again, probably something too obscure for the typical "mass shooter" to employ, but they are definitely more dangerous than a fork.
P
Pinnate
But BP has a lot less propellant power than, say, cordite or ballistite and the home-made variety less powerful still and for multiple shots you'd need multiple barrels.
But yes, that's what the 2nd Amendment authorized ─ awkward muzzle-loaders, with fiddly black powder, balls, wads and sticks 'n stuff!
Of little real use to potential mass murderers these daze...
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M
moose eater
There's no gun registration in Alaska (and a number of other states, too) other than for federally-licensed class III weapons, to include AOW's, destructive devices, suppressors, and selective-fire/full-auto weapons on federal paper (Form 4's and Form 1's).
New or used gun purchases FROM AN FFL-HOLDING DEALER (emphasis) require the NICS check, but other than tacit registration via the federal Form 4473 and NICS check (with the NICS check not necessarily requiring -any- info re. the specific gun<s> in question, and the 4473 not being surrendered to BATFE until after that dealer goes out of business/surrenders their FFL, though it's available under a search situation), there's otherwise no gun registration here, and no required clearances for private purchases, including those purchases from private (non-federally-licensed) vendors at gun shows.
Again, if folks want to maintain ANY right (fill in the blank), then the best way to maintain that right (especially if referenced individually) is to not make it a problem for others. Once it becomes a problem, then all rights, in reality, rhetoric aside, become fluid.
One critical look at the evolution of freedom of speech, rights of assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of movement, freedom from unreasonable searches, etc., should tell -any- thoughtful viewer that nothing is as 'unalienable' as what might've been intended or implied at the time of inception.
Like your Porsche? Don't speed down the street through a residential area, and put folks in harms' way with it.
Part of our trouble, as the population grows to numbers never likely anticipated centuries ago, is that often times, holding INDIVIDUALS accountable is more rare where legislation is concerned. The trend is to pass blanket legislation that covers all persons and circumstances the same (unless they're wealthy or famous, that is), like a parent who's grown weary of trying to sort out which kid did what to whom, and just restricts them all.
Freedom has not been maintained in the U.S., counter to many who want to believe it has. And those who talk the loudest about the 2A in re. to defending liberty from tyranny, have often been the quietest when such tyrannical laws as the USA PA, NDAA, et al, are passed without even being read carefully by those voting on them.
And, in beating a dead horse, when societies have imploded over the last 200-300 years (at least in the Western Hemisphere, and some in the Eastern), it has often been the unlawful acquisition (theft, capture, or confiscation, take your pick) of the tyrants' armories by those who are engaged in revolt, not the personally owned arms, that have brought any equalizers into play. From the Sons of Liberty, to the Jews of Warsaw, to the Mujahedeen, to the Chechens, and so forth.
When your oppressor is ruthless and has nicer hardware, thoughtful folks take them by what ever means they can. It has rarely been Granddad's old shotgun or deer rifle that won the day, other than maybe in taking an oppressor's arms by use of that shotgun in the outset. See Warsaw's 'Butter-knife Brigades' and those others previously listed as examples.
Our Country has a 'value of human (and other) life' issue, as much as anything. We cannot continue to make up pretty words to describe mass carnage in foreign lands, as a response to unsavory policies, or to cover up our own war crimes, then turn to our kids and talk shit about the sanctity of life. Most of them can read and see, too, at some point, and hypocrisy rarely makes a great teacher.
New or used gun purchases FROM AN FFL-HOLDING DEALER (emphasis) require the NICS check, but other than tacit registration via the federal Form 4473 and NICS check (with the NICS check not necessarily requiring -any- info re. the specific gun<s> in question, and the 4473 not being surrendered to BATFE until after that dealer goes out of business/surrenders their FFL, though it's available under a search situation), there's otherwise no gun registration here, and no required clearances for private purchases, including those purchases from private (non-federally-licensed) vendors at gun shows.
Again, if folks want to maintain ANY right (fill in the blank), then the best way to maintain that right (especially if referenced individually) is to not make it a problem for others. Once it becomes a problem, then all rights, in reality, rhetoric aside, become fluid.
One critical look at the evolution of freedom of speech, rights of assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of movement, freedom from unreasonable searches, etc., should tell -any- thoughtful viewer that nothing is as 'unalienable' as what might've been intended or implied at the time of inception.
Like your Porsche? Don't speed down the street through a residential area, and put folks in harms' way with it.
Part of our trouble, as the population grows to numbers never likely anticipated centuries ago, is that often times, holding INDIVIDUALS accountable is more rare where legislation is concerned. The trend is to pass blanket legislation that covers all persons and circumstances the same (unless they're wealthy or famous, that is), like a parent who's grown weary of trying to sort out which kid did what to whom, and just restricts them all.
Freedom has not been maintained in the U.S., counter to many who want to believe it has. And those who talk the loudest about the 2A in re. to defending liberty from tyranny, have often been the quietest when such tyrannical laws as the USA PA, NDAA, et al, are passed without even being read carefully by those voting on them.
And, in beating a dead horse, when societies have imploded over the last 200-300 years (at least in the Western Hemisphere, and some in the Eastern), it has often been the unlawful acquisition (theft, capture, or confiscation, take your pick) of the tyrants' armories by those who are engaged in revolt, not the personally owned arms, that have brought any equalizers into play. From the Sons of Liberty, to the Jews of Warsaw, to the Mujahedeen, to the Chechens, and so forth.
When your oppressor is ruthless and has nicer hardware, thoughtful folks take them by what ever means they can. It has rarely been Granddad's old shotgun or deer rifle that won the day, other than maybe in taking an oppressor's arms by use of that shotgun in the outset. See Warsaw's 'Butter-knife Brigades' and those others previously listed as examples.
Our Country has a 'value of human (and other) life' issue, as much as anything. We cannot continue to make up pretty words to describe mass carnage in foreign lands, as a response to unsavory policies, or to cover up our own war crimes, then turn to our kids and talk shit about the sanctity of life. Most of them can read and see, too, at some point, and hypocrisy rarely makes a great teacher.
Green Squall
Well-known member
I've always wondered what goes through these kids heads right after they're booked and placed in a cell for the first time? Do they feel remorse or are they truly that evil? I have a feeling reality is going to hit this asshole hard once everything sinks in. They said he intended to kill himself, but must have pussed out. Now he has the rest of his life to think about what he's done.
St. Phatty
Active member
The November - December - February time period of the last 3 mass shootings created a new statistical series, where the previous 'time between incidents' seemed to be changing.
From once a year or every 2 years - to once a month or every 2 or 3 months.
At the time I made a bet, without placing money because it wasn't a bet I wanted to win, that the statistical series that started in Las Vegas, indicated a "within 4 months" for the next incident.
So I was expecting a mass shooting by 4 months from the Feb. 14 incident. By June 14.
It ended up being 3 months, 4 days.
I need more time to think about it, but generally I think we will have another incident, within 4 months.
I don't want the next incident to involve a semi-auto (e.g. AR15), but I believe that it will.
From once a year or every 2 years - to once a month or every 2 or 3 months.
At the time I made a bet, without placing money because it wasn't a bet I wanted to win, that the statistical series that started in Las Vegas, indicated a "within 4 months" for the next incident.
So I was expecting a mass shooting by 4 months from the Feb. 14 incident. By June 14.
It ended up being 3 months, 4 days.
I need more time to think about it, but generally I think we will have another incident, within 4 months.
I don't want the next incident to involve a semi-auto (e.g. AR15), but I believe that it will.
Yet they are calling for knife control in the UK as the murder rate in London is higher than New York City. LMAO
Guns make for a more polite society.
M
moose eater
I suspect their thoughts, motives, sentiments, and mental capacities, are scattered across the proverbial board. With one point in common among most; they came to a point where they believed carnage was their most effective and viable resource.
A lot of pent up frustration and desperation, as well as lack of connectedness, and the related compassion that might come from it 'out there,' and persons unfortunately able to get to the point of hate or pain or (????) of saying, "Screw it!! Who cares??!!"
Like I said in another thread, the carnage and pain from this stuff, the violence and such, is like a communicable disease. Take a look at the 'Victim, rescuer, perpetrator triangle' model, to see folks running the bases, and becoming all 3 at one point or another in life's conflicts.
Bird of Hermes
Member
This post almost seems prophetic after what happened in sante fe Texas yesterday. Evil will find a way regardless of the tools at it's disposal. And you may be onto something there moose not that this excuses what he did but there are reports that he was heavily bullied even by the teachers.
Jim you need to relax dude seriously. People can be so politically rabid nowadays there was a video of some Trump supporter showing up at the sante fe school with a trump hat chanting maga with a gun on his hip. I'm pro 2nd amendment but showing up to a active mass shooting crime scene like that to push a political agenda is just patently ridiculous. The people that used to show up at soldiers funerals to push a political agenda were equally ridiculous and probably even more so I'm not making a left vs right argument here. Just saying people need to cool their collective political jets when it comes to lives being lost.
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CaptainDankness
Well-known member
Here's an article from the BBC, though does seem to be fairly new numbers, must be from all the Muslim immigrants after all.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43610936
St. Phatty
Active member
The MoveOn organization is using this as a political fund-raising opportunity.
"Dear MoveOn member,
Today, another school shooting. Today, more lives lost. Today, more blood on the hands of the NRA and each and every Republican in the National Rifle Association's pocket.
Today, Santa Fe High School in Santa Fe, Texas. Early reports say that at least 10 people were killed and more were injured.
Four weeks ago, it was Forest High School in Ocala, Florida. A month before that, Great Mills High School in Lexington Park, Maryland. Twelve days prior to that, the University of South Alabama in Mobile, Alabama. One day earlier, Huffman High School in Birmingham, Alabama. Five days before that, Central Michigan University in Mount Pleasant, Michigan. And that's only since March 1.2 And it's only the shootings at schools.
When will it stop?
We have to vote the NRA out of office—by holding accountable each and every Republican who does the NRA's bidding day after day and ending GOP control of Congress this November.
It's long past time to #VoteThemOut.
Click here to chip in $3 to MoveOn's Resist & Win electoral program. We are going to confront the NRA and defeat the Republicans who choose the NRA over the safety and lives of our children."
Yet straitjacketing the NRA would not have kept the shotgun and the 38 revolver out of the hands of the shooter in Texas yesterday.
I would say the blood - i.e., the causality - can be laid at the feet of MoveOn, just as much as it can the NRA.
Given how much money has been spent on "Homeland Security" since 9-11 ($TRILLIONS), I see a pathetic inability to achieve a single simple valuable goal, from coast to coast in the US.
My forest is beautiful and the Grand Canyon is beautiful but I have to wonder what the foreign tourists are thinking when they visit the US.
"Dear MoveOn member,
Today, another school shooting. Today, more lives lost. Today, more blood on the hands of the NRA and each and every Republican in the National Rifle Association's pocket.
Today, Santa Fe High School in Santa Fe, Texas. Early reports say that at least 10 people were killed and more were injured.
Four weeks ago, it was Forest High School in Ocala, Florida. A month before that, Great Mills High School in Lexington Park, Maryland. Twelve days prior to that, the University of South Alabama in Mobile, Alabama. One day earlier, Huffman High School in Birmingham, Alabama. Five days before that, Central Michigan University in Mount Pleasant, Michigan. And that's only since March 1.2 And it's only the shootings at schools.
When will it stop?
We have to vote the NRA out of office—by holding accountable each and every Republican who does the NRA's bidding day after day and ending GOP control of Congress this November.
It's long past time to #VoteThemOut.
Click here to chip in $3 to MoveOn's Resist & Win electoral program. We are going to confront the NRA and defeat the Republicans who choose the NRA over the safety and lives of our children."
Yet straitjacketing the NRA would not have kept the shotgun and the 38 revolver out of the hands of the shooter in Texas yesterday.
I would say the blood - i.e., the causality - can be laid at the feet of MoveOn, just as much as it can the NRA.
Given how much money has been spent on "Homeland Security" since 9-11 ($TRILLIONS), I see a pathetic inability to achieve a single simple valuable goal, from coast to coast in the US.
My forest is beautiful and the Grand Canyon is beautiful but I have to wonder what the foreign tourists are thinking when they visit the US.
does any one think he could get the death penalty?it is capital murder i think
Bird of Hermes
Member
Last I heard they do intend to charge him with capital crimes so likely yes. There's even talk of federal crimes because of the bombs so it's more then likely he'll get the needle.
M
moose eater
Phatty, I delete most of the petitions and other e-mail I get from groups, left, right, or center these days, as many of them rely on 'shocker' headlines that completely fail to really understand or express the roots of any situation that doesn't match their group's narrative or agenda.
When the headline/subject line is clearly a partial/incomplete shocker, or bent clearly on emotional provocation, I typically delete it without opening it. They're often relying on the mindlessness that goes into those willingly wearing team jerseys, with scant real depth in understanding issues.
"This will really piss off Donald Trump/Sessions/etc etc." Do they -really- think that those involved in action and hope for real change are that petty, and juvenile enough to simply want to irritate or provoke the perceived opposition??!! Is this the level of maturity in our PACs??!!
If so, we're fucked!!
Try talking a correlation to either mainstream Rs -or- Ds about the Family Systems model, re. a Country that kills with little reluctance or remorse over-seas, including civilians, and our issues with violence at home. Like speaking Klingon!!
I had a wonderful discussion with a woman calling on behalf of Nancy Pelosi for fund-raising re. gun control, who, despite her Party's lack of recognition or real awareness where these issues are concerned, clearly and sincerely understood what the I was talking about.
The woman I spoke with was most likely a former Berner, and while she completely understood why I would never donate to Pelosi or other Neo-Lib/Pro-Oligarchy Ds, and can barely say Barbie Boxer's name without having excess saliva leave my mouth as I hiss my words out, she understood much of what we talked about, well beyond just the issues of gun control.
Another case where the followers were/are more astute than the supposed 'leaders.' But they don't typically get their names on ballots.
When the headline/subject line is clearly a partial/incomplete shocker, or bent clearly on emotional provocation, I typically delete it without opening it. They're often relying on the mindlessness that goes into those willingly wearing team jerseys, with scant real depth in understanding issues.
"This will really piss off Donald Trump/Sessions/etc etc." Do they -really- think that those involved in action and hope for real change are that petty, and juvenile enough to simply want to irritate or provoke the perceived opposition??!! Is this the level of maturity in our PACs??!!
If so, we're fucked!!
Try talking a correlation to either mainstream Rs -or- Ds about the Family Systems model, re. a Country that kills with little reluctance or remorse over-seas, including civilians, and our issues with violence at home. Like speaking Klingon!!
I had a wonderful discussion with a woman calling on behalf of Nancy Pelosi for fund-raising re. gun control, who, despite her Party's lack of recognition or real awareness where these issues are concerned, clearly and sincerely understood what the I was talking about.
The woman I spoke with was most likely a former Berner, and while she completely understood why I would never donate to Pelosi or other Neo-Lib/Pro-Oligarchy Ds, and can barely say Barbie Boxer's name without having excess saliva leave my mouth as I hiss my words out, she understood much of what we talked about, well beyond just the issues of gun control.
Another case where the followers were/are more astute than the supposed 'leaders.' But they don't typically get their names on ballots.
