A room full of swinging dicks...

[WaterFarmFan]

It Has Begun!!!

It Has Begun!!!

I am not sure if this is the right way to do it, but I chopped about 20% (2-3 branches) from each plant. I really did not want to introduce any additional moisture that could damage pollen, so I did not spray with water. I did cut most of the leaves as these seemed to have the most surface area for contamination. I strung a simple wire across each 5 gallon bucket and hung the branches in individual buckets.

If you are allergic to pollen, then this process would likely have killed you 6x over. I was careful as trimming leaves while holding branch, but pollen was dropping everywhere. After trimming I would place in bucket on other side of room.

Now to the questions:

How much moisture does it take to damage pollen? The sacs now seem a bit damp, but I imagine that they will dry quickly. I assume that I want to collect pollen and sacs after it has dried completely?

Thanks for all the help and feedback along the way!

WFF

 

[WaterFarmFan]

Here are a few pics:

 

[Safe Gardener]

Are those buckets still in your 12/12 room? I'm sure you already have, but don't forget to lable everything. This is am amazing project you've got going here that many of us watching can only dream about.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

Are those buckets still in your 12/12 room? I'm sure you already have, but don't forget to lable everything. This is am amazing project you've got going here that many of us watching can only dream about.

Thanks Safe! They are in a different area now. Definitely labeled buckets. My primary reason for this thread was to show what a little guy could do with a bit of resources and lots of dedication. I have not had more than two days off for over a year and a half with most times 7 days a week for months on end. All to keep these plants alive... After this, I would be fine losing all of my elite mothers because it is simply much more fun to hunt through seeds than just sit back and tend a mono-crop production garden.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

Here is a group shot from a few days ago. This is 8-9 days since the first one below for comparison. The plants are only in 1 gallon pots and not super happy. Have to water 2x a day.

 

[Guy Brush]

u can't get a F1 from crossing poly on poly hybrids.

many chuckers miss-lable seed packs regarding this. a true F1 comes from crossing 2 inbreed / stable line / unrelated lines ....

Not! The definition of an F1 generation doesn't include that the parents are true breeding.

https://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/First_filial_generation

 

[Kankakee]

please study mendel and inheritance and what produces consistency in F1 generation brought about by true breeding / homozygous P1's .....

n.l. 5 / haze etc, etc ,,,,,

then look toward the consistency of these F1's being sold when crossing poly on poly hybrids ....

 

[Guy Brush]

please study mendel and inheritance and what produces consistency in F1 generation brought about by true breeding / homozygous P1's .....

n.l. 5 / haze etc, etc ,,,,,

then look toward the consistency of these F1's being sold when crossing poly on poly hybrids ....

Now you're talking about consistency. But that has nothing to do with the definition of the term "F1 generation". Technically every cross is an F1. You take two parent plants, this is the P-generation, cross them to receive the first filial generation, called F1. This is just for counting the generations in breeding projects but no qualitative statement!

 

[Kankakee]

so would mendel have advanced or learned a thing by not using homozygous lines ? i'm not talking about consistency, but that is the result of true breeding.!

i can call a guy hitting every clone only hype-train with a male and call him a breeder i guess. really thats the burr under saddle. slapping poly on poly has loaded our industry with 900 chuckers , thug pug, etc, etc, etc " insert name " etc ......all these S1's today etc, total clown show....

i'll stick with my original assertion

 

[Kankakee]

not taking away from waterfarm and his cool project ....

but a real big reason the best plants found in n.l. / haze F1 generation the foundation for everything today. just because other stole those keepers then claimed it was found in magic beans at a dead show. how many seed companies started up in the early 90's using his genetics. ( and Sam's ) almost every single one used his line. now, in 2018 everything bland poly on poly mishmash at F35 i guess.

@Sam_Skunkman ( maybe someone could direct him here )

what is your take ?

 

[Gr33nSanta]

I prefer the poly x poly. One of my main goal is to avoid inbreeding as much as possible. Hybrid vigor rules. It is my belief that humans are getting smarter and healthier because of it, my goal is to create the most intelligent plants.

I find it funny that people laugh at chuckers like me, as if because i do not stabilize a line i can not be called a breeder? I have different philosophy.

 

[VerdantGreen]

so would mendel have advanced or learned a thing by not using homozygous lines ? i'm not talking about consistency, but that is the result of true breeding.!

i can call a guy hitting every clone only hype-train with a male and call him a breeder i guess. really thats the burr under saddle. slapping poly on poly has loaded our industry with 900 chuckers , thug pug, etc, etc, etc " insert name " etc ......all these S1's today etc, total clown show....

i'll stick with my original assertion

as you can see from the discussions here, different people have different preferences for what they want to grow. some want poly's and their variation to find a keeper from, some want 'proper' F1s for their uniformity. Some people who dont have the resources/location to source clones will want S1s of those clones.

What is the problem with different growers having different preferences?
what is the problem with different breeders/chuckers making different seeds? isnt it good for the people buying the seeds to have a choice?

Thinking that your preferences for genetics are the only valid ones, and that everyone else is some kind of clown for liking or making something different is BS. No one is being forced to buy any particular types of seed... what is the problem?

Try to be tolerant of other growers' opinions and preferences, try to respect the diversity and choice that is available for you to choose from.

VG

 

[WaterFarmFan]

so would mendel have advanced or learned a thing by not using homozygous lines ? i'm not talking about consistency, but that is the result of true breeding.!

i can call a guy hitting every clone only hype-train with a male and call him a breeder i guess. really thats the burr under saddle. slapping poly on poly has loaded our industry with 900 chuckers , thug pug, etc, etc, etc " insert name " etc ......all these S1's today etc, total clown show....

i'll stick with my original assertion

Brother, I have to ask you a simple question. How many of these clown show chuckers (the ones selling 1000s of packs) have you actually tried? How many packs of poly hybrid seeds have you grown out in the last few years? You mention Thug Pug, so I assume that you have grown out most of his gear? Because why else would you talk shit without lots of first hand knowledge, right??? Based on your comments, I would say the numbers are zero for all of the above, because if you did (follow the scientific method), then you just might be singing a different tune.

What you can't seem to wrap your head around is that high-90s percentages of people don't give two flying fucks about the characteristics you deem important. They want taste, potency and effect not some mysterious magic that only comes homozygous lines.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

I prefer the poly x poly. One of my main goal is to avoid inbreeding as much as possible. Hybrid vigor rules. It is my belief that humans are getting smarter and healthier because of it, my goal is to create the most intelligent plants.

I find it funny that people laugh at chuckers like me, as if because i do not stabilize a line i can not be called a breeder? I have different philosophy.

I most definitely concur. Inbreeding is a thing. Ace has the most worked lines of anything that I ran, as most were F8+. Dubi has masterfully been tweaking (by adding fresh genetics from multiple parents in line) most strains to get the traits while maintaining vigor. However, I ran some Bangi Haze that had just a little too much cousin fucking going on and they were mutant freaks because of a lack of vigor. Dubi replaced as their customer service is second to none.

I absolutely respect his breeding techniques and the results (including their likely 7-figure sales) speak for themselves. These sativas do have homogeneous traits (for the most part), and will ABSOLUTELY make true F1s when crossed with poly-hybrids. Is it a sin to cross a homogeneous with poly-hybrid? Crazy fucking world that we live in today...

 

[WaterFarmFan]

as you can see from the discussions here, different people have different preferences for what they want to grow. some want poly's and their variation to find a keeper from, some want 'proper' F1s for their uniformity. Some people who dont have the resources/location to source clones will want S1s of those clones.

What is the problem with different growers having different preferences?
what is the problem with different breeders/chuckers making different seeds? isnt it good for the people buying the seeds to have a choice?

Thinking that your preferences for genetics are the only valid ones, and that everyone else is some kind of clown for liking or making something different is BS. No one is being forced to buy any particular types of seed... what is the problem?

Try to be tolerant of other growers' opinions and preferences, try to respect the diversity and choice that is available for you to choose from.

VG

Great stuff VG! Any feedback on the bucket collection method?

 

[Kankakee]

bodhi, gage green, hazeman, snowhigh, gorilla grower, sin city, exotic, master thai... .... list goes on and on ...and most the clone only pumped on forums... i'd say 95% could not be told apart regarding high unless a sativa.

what? the high from chem 91 last like 45 minutes.

it's more about the community wrapping itself as hippy love yet it's all about marketing and money. and the pro growers working with seed sellers pushing the b.s

i could have done the same thing but just do my own breeding never seeking a dime in return. this so called community got what it deserved as the big boys take over because they ran this clone only hype song making peeps think all these packs unique with greatness. it's been all about marketing since dunn and high times etc. searched out dollars on a medical plant in the early 90's .. now you have a green house growers, new seed companies marketing on ig like nike on weekend football game.... now all these corporations have breeders in-house making up new names and joe-six the average smoker (95%) of smokers today do not care about names .... and oil makes it even more irrelevant.

its the marketing hype thats pathetic built upon hype- now totally out of control.


point me in the direction of anything like the original cali mist F1's in mid 90's being produced today with poly on poly genetics. or n.l 5 / haze. not gonna happen. one of the strongest strains ive tried in last 5-7 years was bodhi rerun of chocolate trip.

unless i'm asked more questions i'll be exiting this thread do not worry. u can even have a mod delete whatever its cool my man.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

bodhi, gage green, hazeman, snowhigh, gorilla grower, sin city, exotic, master thai... .... list goes on and on ...and most the clone only pumped on forums... i'd say 95% could not be told apart regarding high unless a sativa.

what? the high from chem 91 last like 45 minutes.

it's more about the community wrapping itself as hippy love yet it's all about marketing and money. and the pro growers working with seed sellers pushing the b.s

i could have done the same thing but just do my own breeding never seeking a dime in return. this so called community got what it deserved as the big boys take over because they ran this clone only hype song making peeps think all these packs unique with greatness. it's been all about marketing since dunn and high times etc. searched out dollars on a medical plant in the early 90's .. now you have a green house growers, new seed companies marketing on ig like nike on weekend football game.... now all these corporations have breeders in-house making up new names and joe-six the average smoker (95%) of smokers today do not care about names .... and oil makes it even more irrelevant.

its the marketing hype thats pathetic built upon hype- now totally out of control.


point me in the direction of anything like the original cali mist F1's in mid 90's being produced today with poly on poly genetics. or n.l 5 / haze. not gonna happen. one of the strongest strains ive tried in last 5-7 years was bodhi rerun of chocolate trip.

unless i'm asked more questions i'll be exiting this thread do not worry. u can even have a mod delete whatever its cool my man.

You are most welcome here. I certainly agree with points in your post above, especially about clone hype and weak strains like Chem 91. Chem 91 (x i95), despite have killer looks, was the weakest of any strain that I ran. Total hype train for sure.

However, I disagree about all poly having the same high profile (ie not being able to tell them apart). There were certainly strains that were flat or uninteresting, but also deep differences between some cookie, chem, og and fruity phenos. The biggest thing that I learned from this 18 month project was the importance of terpene profile to overall effect. These terpene profiles could be breed in a homogeneous fashion, but if they pop up in a poly cross, what is wrong with that?

I have no idea what they sell in dispensaries, but if it is commercial than growers want the shortest flowering time possible, which means minimal sativa influence, which means minimal difference between the mono indica buzz. Blame economics for a large part of this... I love a good sativa and the most interesting crosses that I intend to make are sativa indica hybrids. I want to see what happens when I cross a breath dom to a 14 week sativa.

I am little touchy on Thug Pug, because he seems to bring out the haters like no one else. You should actually like what he is doing by integrating very fresh (borderline mutant Breath) genetics into the mix (albeit to a mix of poly clones and selected female genetics). I really like his gear because it different than most, and the high profile from a breath dom plant is CRUSHING. Gromer is also a very nice guy that traded 100s of DMs with me on IG, most about selecting males from his lines.

You are obviously very passionate about the breeding process, and that fucking rocks!!! I would say that everyone who has commented on this thread has a very deep passion for the plant that has so many incredible expressions. Nothing but love for you on this wonderful Saturday...

 

[Kankakee]

super cool bro.

glad we are still friendly. many times i post the way i do because i want people thinking. i spend most my time researching a bunch of different topics. so you must research both sides of a coin so you at least respect others because we are all equal on this planet.

i hate marketing because its made up of grey area. its fabric is borne in sales.

at the end of the day i hope nothing for the best for everyone because life is not easy and forums can be an escape and friendships are made. many have not had an easy life, many doing the best they can in this world.

just wish more would have called out chem hype etc... because once you try it you call into question everything else that persons or forum ever said or produced, as i have done. now the big boys extract thc then add in terps artificially like philip morris or kraft ... i don't give a crap about money. watching someone chase the dragon has always bothered me moral conduct or caring , really caring about others is lost in this go, go world. i see the ugly side of money in my other hobbies and its all the same crap.

Peace bro `

 

[Gr33nSanta]

super cool bro.

glad we are still friendly. many times i post the way i do because i want people thinking. i spend most my time researching a bunch of different topics. so you must research both sides of a coin so you at least respect others because we are all equal on this planet.

i hate marketing because its made up of grey area. its fabric is borne in sales.

at the end of the day i hope nothing for the best for everyone because life is not easy and forums can be an escape and friendships are made. many have not had an easy life, many doing the best they can in this world.

just wish more would have called out chem hype etc... because once you try it you call into question everything else that persons or forum ever said or produced, as i have done. now the big boys extract thc then add in terps artificially like philip morris or kraft ... i don't give a crap about money. watching someone chase the dragon has always bothered me moral conduct or caring , really caring about others is lost in this go, go world. i see the ugly side of money in my other hobbies and its all the same crap.

Peace bro `

I feel targeted when you say ''someone chasing the dragon'' as if it were a bad thing? because it is an expression Ive used a lot referring to my seed making, I sometimes wonder if I started the trend of saying chasing the dragon when referring to cannabis pheno hunting, because I will never be content, just like an old addiction I used to have...

The closest to finding the dragon I have ever gotten I have shared freely. My high CBD blueberry muffin out of the oven that is, I call Les Fleurs Bleues.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Great stuff VG! Any feedback on the bucket collection method?

hey WFF, i think it will work fine as long as enough flowers open on your cut branches before they die/dry out, and you can collect the pollen you need.

the other way you could do it (if you need more pollen) is put the cut branches in a glass of water and stand the whole thing in the bucket (cut the branches short enough so they dont stick up above the lip of the bucket)
branches standing in water is just like a vase of flowers and the will continue to open an drop pollen.
this is often how i collect pollen myself (and is what i was suggesting earlier in the thread, maybe didnt explain it well enough) i sometimes cut the branches and discard the male. they will stay alive in the water and drop pollen for a week or two if necessary. ( you need to change the water every few days to keep it from going bad and the stems starting to rot)

VG