New kelp derived paclo

[theother]

Everything in California has a Prop 65 warning, even aspirin. LOL.

I know man, and it gets kind of confusing I agree. It really is hard to tell the severity of the danger because everything is labeled. I saw a label at the drive through for mcdonalds warning that the food is known the state of California to cause birth defects, lol that should take your appetite away. However, as it applies to systemic pesticides or PGR's I think we have to assume that they are actually quite dangerous. I wish I could find the article I was reading about PBZ, they where talking about the triaz ring the chemical causes and that the growth retardant is one aspect, the antifungal is another, but the straight systemic poisonous aspect is another. I believe the study was funded by the state of Massachusetts in response to them wanting to use it on trees in historical downtown areas. I think that should be a good sign that we shouldn't smoke it man, they obviously had enough of a backlash over applying it to ornamental trees that they where compelled to do the study.

Your gonna have a hard time finding anyone outside of a hydro store that thinks it is a good idea, I promise.

 

[710420]

Bottled nutes in nature? Chemist need to keep their chemicals out of mother nature and keep it in their labs.

Nature and man made chemicals don't mix.

 

[stevewinthrop]

I think there is a common misconception that the only problem with PGR's was that they where not labeled correctly. This is absolutely not true, PBZ and diminowhatever (sp) are absolutely not used on any food crop that I am aware of. There is absolutely a danger in using these products whether they are labeled or not. They create a systemic response in the plant that is absolutely poisonous on some level. I don't think anyone is arguing that PBZ, dimonzade, or a chlormoquate chloride derived thing are good for you and should be used on your consumable crop whether they are labeled correctly or not. The scariest thing here to me is that they are teratogen's (meaning they cause harm to the male reproductive system and are likely birth defect causing). That is heavy shit my friend, whether its labeled or not. To imagine that somehow the "favorable" results of using these things is worth the risk is absolutely an ill informed decision. You really cannot in good conscience use a product like this because other people are. Shit out here a huge portion of the full season has nasty as fuck systemic pesticides applied in early flower, wtf is that about, thats not safe under any circumstances, its just convenient. Honestly fucking up unborn children is just not something im okay with taking a risk on whether its labeled or not.

Sorry if that seems intense its just we absolutely do exist in a sort of uninformed subculture where ignorant decisions are not the exception so we as informed adults need to be clear with each other regarding the risks of some of these dangerous practices. It can be hard to see it in writing or whatever but potentially not "paying attention" when choosing products could absolutely have life long consequences for a child that is not born yet.


I agree, I am seeing WAY less PBZ questionable stuff now, the only thing I have seen stay on the shelves with the label is the GH PBZ thing.

Glow I seem to remember there was a prop 65 type warning on the bottles of avalanche I have seen in california, any idea what ingredient would prompt that? I will have to check again to make sure its there, could be remembering it wrong.

Probably the copper, which is a heavy metal

 

[EclipseFour20]

Copper is not on the list--go here for the Prop 65 list: http://www.oehha.org/prop65/prop65_list/newlist.html

 

[theother]

Bottled nutes in nature? Chemist need to keep their chemicals out of mother nature and keep it in their labs.

Nature and man made chemicals don't mix.

well that is almost definitely an uninformed viewpoint! I understand the sentiment though. Sometimes its just important to do our due diligence and truly understand the risks and benefits of what we are doing. Chemistry is always your friend, even as far as biology is concerned in an organic soil you better understand chemistry or your gonna have a bad time (insert meme here).

FWIW using mined minerals and chemical chelates in absolutely no way has a negative effect on the end product, im definitely not going to sit here and try and convince you why I know this but it would be in your best interest to consider it. Basically a plant that has everything it needs becomes super tasty dank dripping with terps, not feeding a plant for 3 or 4 weeks does not make for a tasty plant. I have seen more and more of my organic compatriots start using the aurora PK boosters, LOL, they about shit themselves when they saw what chemistry and leanardite could do for them LOL, I love it.

The final thing I will say is this, the worst tasting cannabis I have had the displeasure of sampling was a bad organic run in the summer. My god there was so much N left in it that your lips tingled when you smoked it. I have definitely sampled great cannabis out of the same space when life cooperates with the guy, just food for thought. Where he missed with organics you probably could have flushed and fed appropriately for the less than favorable environmental conditions he was going through.

 

[glow]

I think there is a common misconception that the only problem with PGR's was that they where not labeled correctly. This is absolutely not true, PBZ and diminowhatever (sp) are absolutely not used on any food crop that I am aware of. There is absolutely a danger in using these products whether they are labeled or not. They create a systemic response in the plant that is absolutely poisonous on some level. I don't think anyone is arguing that PBZ, dimonzade, or a chlormoquate chloride derived thing are good for you and should be used on your consumable crop whether they are labeled correctly or not. The scariest thing here to me is that they are teratogen's (meaning they cause harm to the male reproductive system and are likely birth defect causing). That is heavy shit my friend, whether its labeled or not. To imagine that somehow the "favorable" results of using these things is worth the risk is absolutely an ill informed decision. You really cannot in good conscience use a product like this because other people are. Shit out here a huge portion of the full season has nasty as fuck systemic pesticides applied in early flower, wtf is that about, thats not safe under any circumstances, its just convenient. Honestly fucking up unborn children is just not something im okay with taking a risk on whether its labeled or not.

Sorry if that seems intense its just we absolutely do exist in a sort of uninformed subculture where ignorant decisions are not the exception so we as informed adults need to be clear with each other regarding the risks of some of these dangerous practices. It can be hard to see it in writing or whatever but potentially not "paying attention" when choosing products could absolutely have life long consequences for a child that is not born yet.


I agree, I am seeing WAY less PBZ questionable stuff now, the only thing I have seen stay on the shelves with the label is the GH PBZ thing.

Glow I seem to remember there was a prop 65 type warning on the bottles of avalanche I have seen in california, any idea what ingredient would prompt that? I will have to check again to make sure its there, could be remembering it wrong.

Yes GH played off another registration that was already in place which basically means that with the right labeling they can sell their PBZ shite to growers legally. This is a common practice by some (piggy backing an already existing registration) because its a cheap way of getting your poison to market.

I'll look into the warning but certainly copper is linked to birth defects and cancer (it's a toxic heavy metal). One thing though is people keep saying oh no PBZ etc - great it's safe! Not necessarily true - copper accumulates in plant tissue and the higher the levels of copper in solution the higher the uptake and accumulation of copper in tissue. Personally I try to grow the cleanest med I can so I myself would avoid using Avalanche. I would rather have low heavy metal containing produce than harder buds than normal.

 

[glow]

Bottled nutes in nature? Chemist need to keep their chemicals out of mother nature and keep it in their labs.

Nature and man made chemicals don't mix.

Few things.... as this is a nutrient and fertilizer thread what are you doing here? I think IC Mag should make a composts and shit thread for organic growers .

Secondly, have a read and learn a few things http://www.manicbotanix.com/hydroponic-grow-guide/hydroponics-v-organics.html

The problem with the organics movement is that they play on peoples ignorance. Don't remain ignorant.

Third - half of the organic "chemicals" that were once used in the EU in organic agriculture are now banned due to being carcinogenic. It would seem nature and nature's chemicals don't mix.

 

[milkyjoe]

Your idea of organics is appalingly unsophisticated. It makes me not believe a word you say about anything.

I have done both quite a bit. Neither is far superior to the other. To suggest otherwise is to show your ignorance either way

 

[710420]

well that is almost definitely an uninformed viewpoint!


Uninformed or unpopular??

What do you think of GMO?

To your point I am uninformed about bottled nutes. I do know that mother nature has provided enough to give up the best she has to offer.

Just because the weed might look so "big" and "dense" doesn't make it healthy.
How healthy do you consider bodybuilders??

My boy just brought by some fat ass nug bud made from bottled nutes and when I put it in the bowl and lit it up it turned into the 4th of july! WTF!

Ya know, I just came on this thread to get a rise out of some of the sensitive ones (just bored) but after putting some thought into it I think I have a really good point here. I don't know, you tell me.

I do want to thank other for his response.

 

[710420]

^^Wow. This thread is getting "nuked"!

 

[glow]

You kno I watch this video http://www.advancednutrients.com/paclotruth/ and ask myself why does the UK and Japan allow the use of Paclo but not the US? Does it have anything to do with the fact the FDA is all about taking out the small farmer and putting harsh restrictions on them so tht they cannot remain competitive with Large scale farming?

What are your thoughts?

The EU doesn't allow the use of PBZ on any food crop. If the UK does then it is out of step with EU regulations which it is supposed to abide by. If they don't abide by these regulations then their crops could be subject to EU bans. In some countries (e.g. Australia) there is highly limited regulations that allow the use of PBZ on some food crops such as grapes and mangoes during budset but this allows months for clearance. This said, some countries are just backward and practices allowed in them differ from more consumer protected societies such as the US and the EU. Australia, for example, has weak assed consumer protection laws where pesticide and fungicide regulations are concerned and their regulatory body (the APVMA) should be ripped apart and replaced with a body that gets off their bums and does some work.

 

[glow]

well that is almost definitely an uninformed viewpoint!


Uninformed or unpopular??

What do you think of GMO?

To your point I am uninformed about bottled nutes. I do know that mother nature has provided enough to give up the best she has to offer.

Just because the weed might look so "big" and "dense" doesn't make it healthy.
How healthy do you consider bodybuilders??

My boy just brought by some fat ass nug bud made from bottled nutes and when I put it in the bowl and lit it up it turned into the 4th of july! WTF!

Ya know, I just came on this thread to get a rise out of some of the sensitive ones (just bored) but after putting some thought into it I think I have a really good point here. I don't know, you tell me.

I do want to thank other for his response.

Cut the fear mongering BS. What has GMO got to do with inorganic fertilizers? This is exactly the type of crap mung heads come out with in an attempt to demonize the future of agriculture. GMO blows man but it has nothing to do with fertilizers.

 

[glow]

^^Wow. This thread is getting "nuked"!

Yes it is - some clown is attempting to derail it with completely off topic information.

 

[glow]

Your idea of organics is appalingly unsophisticated. It makes me not believe a word you say about anything.

I have done both quite a bit. Neither is far superior to the other. To suggest otherwise is to show your ignorance either way

Actually mate my understanding of organics is appallingly sophisticated. My issue with organics is the BS these hippycrit corpo capitalist false marketers come out with in order to scare consumers. Each to their own and had you read what I have written on organics you would have found I support their stand against synthetic pesticides and GMO etc.

"It makes me not believe a word you say about anything." LOL - couldn't care less BTW - while growers were speculating about PGR (subclass growth retardant) products it was me that exposed these products once and for all. You're full of contradictions pal... I tend to get my facts right while others get the facts wrong. The first time we exposed PBZ in products was in 2003 with Superbud. Several of us went live and many growers screamed foul and told us we were full of shit. It took a decade to finally get people to sit up and listen. And this only happened when I went live with lab findings gained through the CDFA at great personal cost. Now growers have finally sat up and listened (hence threads like this). Shame that so much med is still testing positive for PBZ which is why I am a supporter of introducing tough regulations that takes med production out of the hands of cowboys and puts it into the hands of licensed professionals (i.e. people with the appropriate qualifications and the appropriate ethics). So yeah, when growers say I am full of shit it means very little to me. I tend to know my shit, while others talk it.

 

[710420]

Cut the fear mongering BS. What has GMO got to do with inorganic fertilizers? This is exactly the type of crap mung heads come out with in an attempt to demonize the future of agriculture. GMO blows man but it has nothing to do with fertilizers.

Both are man made.
Both are fed to living things.
Both are unhealthy.
Both are not natural.
Both are not organic.

Look, I was trying to get a rise, I got the rise, mission complete, but in all fairness I do believe that fully organic is the way to go and that inorganic fertilizers and GMO are all in the same bag to me.

 

[glow]

So do you think it is bad or not? Do you actually think America cares about consumers more than the EU cares about theirs. Im pretty sure America is the least healthy country and that has a lot to do with our "food" and who controls it. Just throwing it out there that I dont always trust "US gov sources" but thts just me. Same gov. also has cannabis being illegal too. Think about tht

I don't think anything is that simple---- period. And no you should never trust any government .

 

[glow]

Both are man made.
Both are fed to living things.
Both are unhealthy.
Both are not natural.
Both are not organic.

Look, I was trying to get a rise, I got the rise, mission complete, but in all fairness I do believe that fully organic is the way to go and that inorganic fertilizers and GMO are all in the same bag to me.

Stupid and full of himself. Mate - you got no rise out of me. Just correcting your child like ignorance. Now you're miles off topic. Run off and start a thread about organics or say something intelligent about PBZ in kelps.

 

[710420]

glow, your insults will not be able to fully cover the fact that what you condone is wrong.
Nutes in a bottle is a pipe dream. Gmo for corn. Steroids for bodybuilders.

The facts are out about the Nutes in a bottle. You are officially living in the past. It has already been proven you don't need that stuff made in a lab for nature. I know for a fact you feel the same as me because we are human beings and we as human beings want what is best for each other. All natural the way nature intended it to be.

The info is out there. Ask a real farmer.

 

[milkyjoe]

Actually mate my understanding of organics is appallingly sophisticated. My issue with organics is the BS these hippycrit corpo capitalist false marketers come out with in order to scare consumers. Each to their own and had you read what I have written on organics you would have found I support their stand against synthetic pesticides and GMO etc.

"It makes me not believe a word you say about anything." LOL - couldn't care less BTW - while growers were speculating about PGR (subclass growth retardant) products it was me that exposed these products once and for all. You're full of contradictions pal... I tend to get my facts right while others get the facts wrong. The first time we exposed PBZ in products was in 2003 with Superbud. Several of us went live and many growers screamed foul and told us we were full of shit. It took a decade to finally get people to sit up and listen. And this only happened when I went live with lab findings gained through the CDFA at great personal cost. Now growers have finally sat up and listened (hence threads like this). Shame that so much med is still testing positive for PBZ which is why I am a supporter of introducing tough regulations that takes med production out of the hands of cowboys and puts it into the hands of licensed professionals (i.e. people with the appropriate qualifications and the appropriate ethics). So yeah, when growers say I am full of shit it means very little to me. I tend to know my shit, while others talk it.

So you say you know organics and then don't talk about it at all. You ramble on about something I said nothing about. Now I suspect your reading comprehension is lacking also

Please tell me you care and ramble some more unrelated bullshit.

 

[theother]

well that is almost definitely an uninformed viewpoint!


Uninformed or unpopular??

What do you think of GMO?

To your point I am uninformed about bottled nutes. I do know that mother nature has provided enough to give up the best she has to offer.

Just because the weed might look so "big" and "dense" doesn't make it healthy.
How healthy do you consider bodybuilders??

My boy just brought by some fat ass nug bud made from bottled nutes and when I put it in the bowl and lit it up it turned into the 4th of july! WTF!

Ya know, I just came on this thread to get a rise out of some of the sensitive ones (just bored) but after putting some thought into it I think I have a really good point here. I don't know, you tell me.

I do want to thank other for his response.

I think there is a commn error that people make when they have a predisposition to a conclusion. I know I have been guilty of it before as well, I really believed delicious dank was not possible with salts, but it totally is! In fact I get terpier more consistent results with salts than I ever did with solid organics. It's really easy to find bad salt grown weed, there is no doubt about it. Honestly, truly honestly, most weed is shit, so it's really easy to say, well those methods don't work. The truth is if you smoked absolute dank, you would assume it was grown in the way your predisposed to, and I probably wouldn't argue with you . TRuth is low and slow salts, fed a proper ratio, getting appropriate runoff, perfect environment, is absolutely fucking delicious. Whack it with PBz or some other none sense and it starts to look like those little hay rocks. It doesn't have to be a harmful chem, just constant overfeeding, salt buildup heat stress can schwag shit out.

At the end of the day the more open minded you can be the happier your garden will be.