By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

[Bluenote]

My experience with salty ferts on outdoors is minimal as I learned my lesson the first time. I can tell you that you will have some of the nastiest burning buds using any sort of mineral fertilizer outdoor and in the quantities the plants need. II can honestly say that as soon as I switched to all organic methods outdoors, I never saw a mite, mold, or mildew problem again. Maybe it was coincidence, but science seems to back it up too. Not trying to sound like a dick so please dont take it that way. I just hate smoking salty outdoor.

Maybe you shouldn't generalise so much. There are a lot of us out here who will disagree with you , perhaps you're unaware that outdoor can be flushed/leached just as indoor can? Don't even bother debating this one , I've been using the various Jack's and other offerings for too long , I can also point to examples from commercial ag ( direct expereince) that run counter to your statements , and that's in narrow harvest window max brix crops in which taste is delicate enough to be dramatically affected very quickly.

I'm all for "all organic" , it's just not quite the panacea some folks portray it as , and frankly it's somewhat of a misnomer and mistatement. Example: lots of us feed lots of molasses , last I looked it wasn't falling from the sky naturally and has to be made by man , beet pulp is a great " natural" soil amendment...byproduct of man's industry.

Conversely the salts we label as " inorganic chemicals" and synthetic are naturally occuring elements and compounds thereof.

By the way , as I stated I've played with the commercial ag stuff for years , Jacks Classis ( 20-20-20) , Bloom Booster (10-30-20) , the Hydro in either version and Jacks with Crystal Green (9-13-22) along with molasses and cal-mag supllementation and perhaps silica is all that's needed in actual reality.

And there is *none* of the salt effect you describe in what I produce utilising various combos of the above. None.

How far do you go with "organic" as a goes specificity of definition , even when we feed "organically" we're just feeding the basic salts via a different transport mechanism. And which becomes more bio-available is affected by other factors...think the parallels in atheletics as regards whether or not items such as the whey proteins and creatine monohydrate are "natural or not".............take a look at the former and the dramatic rise in bio-availability over the natural source......along with excretion of less byproduct.

Cause's one to weight the question of just *what* exactly " organic" really is and just how far on the road between the two the reasonable compromise as regards efficiency and the best product really is.

When we mix a vat of ground up trash fish , guano , molasses various enzymes etc,etc ( who among us doesn't have a personal twist on "teas") it may well be natural ingredients , however I don't think nature every detailed a Bear to tote a five gallon bucket of the stinky mess and water a pot plant.

 

[Bluenote]

C'mon guys, this thread is about cheap synthetic fertilizers, not organic soil.
I've been growing for a long time and grow some awesome indoor and out.
My outdoor plants all end up eating their fans in the last 3 or 4 weeks of life,
trim, cure, smoke and taste great. Thanks!

All I was asking for was a little advice as to which of JR Peters products would be best
for outdoor flowering?

It's *supposed* to be slow release , however I utilised the Jacks with Crystal Green this year outdoor on some 9-13-22 with nothing else but molasses and a calmag supplement.

And the " Bloom Booster" 10-30-20 has always worked well for me , has the P when you need it , then taper it down and molasses up for your K boost.

Keep in mind that Peters sells all the salts individually , and good micro-nutrient pack , it's pretty easy to mix *exactly* what you want for a given strain.

In addition , just as in the human body carbs will " burn" at different rates (see glycemic index) there sources for the basics that are utilised and assimilated at different rates , you mat want a fast acting calcium/nitrogen /etc one time and a slow release for another scenario/situation.


edit: to add a point , keep in mind that manure sources for various guanos , cowflop , chicken doo etc can be dramatically affected byt *what those animals are fed*...

If you know anything about commercial ag , ask yourself if you want to used the leavings from a commercial poultry operation on plants that you might consume , especially via smoking..........

Me? I won't even eat commercial chicken if I can get out of it , and don't even get me started on what's fed to our beef , and of course subsequent to that to our crops , which are fed to the beef again , and the cowflop then is used on the crops again , which are then fed to beef again......and on and on...........never mind what effect residual Estradiol and Trenbolone acetate ( among other things) may have on the cannabis plant......

So in the end we've arrived at a world where there is " good shit" and " bad shit" from a fertiliser point of view.............

 

[dramamine]

Maybe you shouldn't generalise so much. There are a lot of us out here who will disagree with you , perhaps you're unaware that outdoor can be flushed/leached just as indoor can? Don't even bother debating this one , I've been using the various Jack's and other offerings for too long , I can also point to examples from commercial ag ( direct expereince) that run counter to your statements , and that's in narrow harvest window max brix crops in which taste is delicate enough to be dramatically affected very quickly.

I'm all for "all organic" , it's just not quite the panacea some folks portray it as , and frankly it's somewhat of a misnomer and mistatement. Example: lots of us feed lots of molasses , last I looked it wasn't falling from the sky naturally and has to be made by man , beet pulp is a great " natural" soil amendment...byproduct of man's industry.

Conversely the salts we label as " inorganic chemicals" and synthetic are naturally occuring elements and compounds thereof.

By the way , as I stated I've played with the commercial ag stuff for years , Jacks Classis ( 20-20-20) , Bloom Booster (10-30-20) , the Hydro in either version and Jacks with Crystal Green (9-13-22) along with molasses and cal-mag supllementation and perhaps silica is all that's needed in actual reality.

And there is *none* of the salt effect you describe in what I produce utilising various combos of the above. None.

How far do you go with "organic" as a goes specificity of definition , even when we feed "organically" we're just feeding the basic salts via a different transport mechanism. And which becomes more bio-available is affected by other factors...think the parallels in atheletics as regards whether or not items such as the whey proteins and creatine monohydrate are "natural or not".............take a look at the former and the dramatic rise in bio-availability over the natural source......along with excretion of less byproduct.

Cause's one to weight the question of just *what* exactly " organic" really is and just how far on the road between the two the reasonable compromise as regards efficiency and the best product really is.

When we mix a vat of ground up trash fish , guano , molasses various enzymes etc,etc ( who among us doesn't have a personal twist on "teas") it may well be natural ingredients , however I don't think nature every detailed a Bear to tote a five gallon bucket of the stinky mess and water a pot plant.

This is excellent. It would be nice to have a thread discussing such things, but it's a touchy subject, to say the least. Strange that there is now an industry built around the word, while the definition is completely elusive. Maybe more ironic than strange. Does anyone really feel like they're replicating nature when they crack open a bottle or tear open a bag? Is that not the definition of a placebo? Those jet planes don't run on organic fuel....neither do the trucks that deliver it to the farm supply/hydro stores. Which man-made processes are deemed organic?


I love the old quote by Grateful Head..... "Organics are the Rube Goldberg machine of indoor growing".......so true.

 

[Bluenote]

This is excellent. It would be nice to have a thread discussing such things, but it's a touchy subject, to say the least. Strange that there is now an industry built around the word, while the definition is completely elusive. Maybe more ironic than strange. Does anyone really feel like they're replicating nature when they crack open a bottle or tear open a bag? Is that not the definition of a placebo? Those jet planes don't run on organic fuel....neither do the trucks that deliver it to the farm supply/hydro stores. Which man-made processes are deemed organic?


I love the old quote by Grateful Head..... "Organics are the Rube Goldberg machine of indoor growing".......so true.

There will someone come along and get their knickers in a knot over what I said soon enough.

Here's another one that folks need to examine , yet I'll get my head taken off about too. A great deal of the " bag manures" . not the custom " guanos " , but Steer Manure , Chicken Manure etc. that folks just love to put in their " all organic" soil mixes aren't *anywhere* near "organic" , the crap in question comes from commercial poultry and feedlot operations , gets processed and sold through commercial outlets.

Now do I *really* need to start providing examples for some folks here of just *exactly* what's in our food supply?

What those cattle , chickens etc EAT before they EXCRETE and it ultimately ends up in your hands as " organic" . examine how the diet those animals are fed travels the chain and the circular source.

For an example of the end result of such transmission pathways google " Kesterson Wildlife Refuge" along with Smithfield foods , note that the latters hogshit ends up in many commercial mixes , note also that Smithfields Foods is the number 1 environmental polluter in the USA , google 'em and you will never eat a pork product with one of their labels again , and they control 75 percent of the market in the USA.

In closing , if a *basic* component of an organic program is often full of such wonderful items as selenium , and equally lovely items such as residual hormones ( steroids...anabolic not catabolic) and waste products of their usage that may well be resident in the excrete?..........what's " Organic" about it?

 

[Guest 142956]

Here is a recent grow result using Jack 5-12-26 and Jacks Calnit. I also added a teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts in veg and 2 teaspoons per gallon after the 4th week of flower. The only other thing put on these plants was Snow Storm Ultra sprayed on as per directions. The wrong part (supposedly) is that I used a teaspoon each of 5-12-26 and Jacks Calnit per gallon. I initially used 1/2 teaspoon but got red stems and upped the dose by 2. The end result is the best yield I have gotten from a single 400 Watt HPS, I grew vertically and the plants were grown in 3 gallon buckets filled with a mix of 3 parts perlite and 1 part each of Peat moss and Fullers earth which was bought as floor sweep at an auto supply store. This was a simple wick system. The strain was a cross between AK48 and Skunk#1. The smoke is amazingly potent, you will not sit there enjoying the wonderful flavor because two light hits will affect you heavily for 3-4 hours. A strong hit may cause you to puke and sit down for a while, spacing out. A super tall high. I did not do any flushing. No leaf ever tried to claw and not one browned leaf tip was found. When the plants started to finish the fan leaves yellowed just like they were supposed to.

 

[seventhchild]

Here is a recent grow result using Jack 5-12-26 and Jacks Calnit. I also added a teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts in veg and 2 teaspoons per gallon after the 4th week of flower. The only other thing put on these plants was Snow Storm Ultra sprayed on as per directions. The wrong part (supposedly) is that I used a teaspoon each of 5-12-26 and Jacks Calnit per gallon. I initially used 1/2 teaspoon but got red stems and upped the dose by 2. The end result is the best yield I have gotten from a single 400 Watt HPS, I grew vertically and the plants were grown in 3 gallon buckets filled with a mix of 3 parts perlite and 1 part each of Peat moss and Fullers earth which was bought as floor sweep at an auto supply store. This was a simple wick system. The strain was a cross between AK48 and Skunk#1. The smoke is amazingly potent, you will not sit there enjoying the wonderful flavor because two light hits will affect you heavily for 3-4 hours. A strong hit may cause you to puke and sit down for a while, spacing out. A super tall high. I did not do any flushing. No leaf ever tried to claw and not one browned leaf tip was found. When the plants started to finish the fan leaves yellowed just like they were supposed to.

nice photos...the title of this thread is"By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers" so im going to add my i like the JACKS + CALCIUM NITRATE combo also...the 3- 1- 4 ratio seems perfect..super cheap food for growing healthy plants...

 

[Guest 142956]

The grow was not in an ideal place to take pictures. I do have a couple pickle jars full of very crystally buds though. What are the negatives using a teaspoon each of the Jacks pro / calnit per gallon? I could easily make a dipper that holds 3/4 of a teaspoon and use that. Other than the "claw" or otherwise deteriorating plants how can you tell if you are hitting the plants too hard with ferts?

 

[zeke99]

I am just now finishing off a $40 / 25 pound bag of Peter's Professional hydro after 18 months of continuous use, harvesting about 1.5 to 2 pounds per month (dry).

How much money have you fools wasted on fertilizers in that time?

 

[homebaked]

I have used Crop King hydro for moms and veg for almost 2 years. Ebb and Flo. Havent tried in flower but after next purchase i will. I have enough data from kiss to see if it makes a difference other than pocket.

I use manuf recommendation on dosage and have no issues with putting 2 week clones in tray. With my water i have to add a little down to get to 5.5, before ph down it settles at 5.92ish ppm at 740ish.

Have thought about trying jacks but dont know why..

 

[jump /injack]

Who carries Jack's on the West Coast, the shipping costs are as much as the Ferts. Someone in the SF bay area would be great. Its good stuff, like not paying for the water.

 

[Guest 142956]

I ordered mine off the net. Cost me $80. for 25 pounds of each part, still very cheap.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I bought my calcium nitrate local and ordered the 5-12-26 on line and the total was $65.

 

[Guest 142956]

It is amazing to me how little of the Jacks combo is needed to get things growing very nicely. My last run I used 3/4 teaspoon each component and was very happy with the results.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Quick question for those that have had Jack's shipped to them, plain brown box? JRPetersLabs return address?... or does it say fertilizer and/or hydroponic etc. etc. all over the box and label? Same question for orders from CutomHydroNutes... have been eyeballing the AgSil16H as an inexpensive silica option. I've searched the Mag as well as other "specialty" sites and the vendors sites themselves for shipping policies/packaging info to no avail. Thanks in advance.

 

[Guest 142956]

Mine came in brown boxes, two of them. The Calcium nitrate was in a bucket in the box and the 5-12-26 was a bag in a box. You may just be a bit paranoid as Law enforcement couldn't get a warrant for something you legally ordered.

 

[SecondAttempt]

Thanks Bill... I just don't like to raise suspicion, with enough pieces the puzzle becomes quite clear. Many times I just have stuff sent to my grandmother's house, but if the box was labeled fetilizer/hydro etc... that would just open up a whole convesation with her that I choose to avoid.

 

[lvtokerr]

After running through so much maxibloom I am thinking about going the Jacks route.

 

[zeke99]

That this invaluable thread hasn't been permanently attached to the front page of the Nutrients forum as a "sticky" should tell you all that you need to know about the advertising/sponsorship game...

 

[Mr_Pat]

Great thread!

 

[highdensity]

Bump..........You guys still running Jacks? I'm finally near the end of my bag of Jacks after 20 months. Stuff lasts a long time and works good.