Dual zone a/c's with humidifiers....

[PoopyTeaBags]

there is no reason to vent out heat when you have a a/c capable of handling it all....

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Here is how I'd build it

have two seperate sealed and insulated rooms with either a dual zone mini split or 2 separate mini splits or window units. Then have a huge fan on a thermostat that vents the heat out of the basement. The external parts of the window units/minisplit will be in the basement.

this will work great in the winter time when it gets too cold for the outside unit of your mini split, and when it warms up you'll probably need to move the mini split outside, because it will probably get too hot down there during the day.

the mini split will be in garage... which will not heat up or cool down... it should stay at -5 to 90f

im not worried about that i just need to know how much to kool each room barebulbed with a 6k room?

 

[Sam the Caveman]

In your cold climate, I'd allocate 4k btu's per light, so 24k btu (2 tons) for each room. You might could get away with 3500 btu's per light in your climate, but personally, I wouldn't risk it

Im not sure they make a 4 ton dual zone minisplit, or at least not that I've seen online.

If they rooms will only be on a 12 hour flip, you could circulate the air between the rooms and you would only need one 2 ton unit. (24k btu's) But if you ever have one room or both running 18/6, it will get very hot with only 2 tons, so you wouldn't have that versatility if you only had one unit and circulated the air between rooms.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

i dont see how i get away with NO a/c on a 4k to a 15k btu per room not keeping temps at 81ish... granted its not the summer but id think i could pull it off... if you look at excel air they say i only need a 2.5ton unit...


but running a flip could mess all that up....
just let me know what you think and ill call some people tomorrow....

 

[Sam the Caveman]

It really depends on your climate and how insulated the area is.

I'm in the south and it's never really cold down here, so I have to use a lot of a/c to get things cool. A cold night for us is to touch the freezing point.

Your "no" a/c on 4k is with active venting of fresh air. Once you seal the rooms, the only way to remove the heat is through the a/c. Unless you have vented hoods and use outside air to run through the hoods and have them exhaust outside the room.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

It really depends on your climate and how insulated the area is.

I'm in the south and it's never really cold down here, so I have to use a lot of a/c to get things cool. A cold night for us is to touch the freezing point.

Your "no" a/c on 4k is with active venting of fresh air. Once you seal the rooms, the only way to remove the heat is through the a/c. Unless you have vented hoods and use outside air to run through the hoods and have them exhaust outside the room.

right... but the main question is this... what dual zone would you choose to kool a 6k bare bulb on a flip.... when we talk like this i dont think the flip matters because when you shut off the cooling you can start the dehumidifier in that room and vice versa.... so all i should need is to be able to cool a 6k barebulb in 90-100 degree weather and still run at under -6...

am i not correct at this logic?

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Well, for example, a mini-split rated at 24k btu with 2 zones can only remove 12k btu's per zone. So if both zones are running the exterior unit is capable of maxing out both zones.

Now you might could custom order one with 2x 24k btu indoor units and connect both of them to one 24k btu exterior unit. It should work just fine as long as both of them aren't running at the same time, and even if they did, they still would have a 12k btu's of cooling but they would lose all capabilities of dehumidifing due to technical reasons.

technical reasons = a 24k btu coil provided with only 12k btu of cooling and a fan moving air at a rate of speed appropriate for a 24k btu coil will not allow condensate to form on the coils. reason being, water forms on the coils when the air surrounding it reaches the dewpoint, if there is too much airflow, the temperature of the air surrounding the coils will never reach the dewpoint, and thus, no formation of condensate. But this is, only if both 24k btu indoor units are running at the same time connected to only one 24k btu external unit.

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

Well, for example, a mini-split rated at 24k btu with 2 zones can only remove 12k btu's per zone. So if both zones are running the exterior unit is capable of maxing out both zones.

Now you might could custom order one with 2x 24k btu indoor units and connect both of them to one 24k btu exterior unit. It should work just fine as long as both of them aren't running at the same time, and even if they did, they still would have a 12k btu's of cooling but they would lose all capabilities of dehumidifing due to technical reasons.

technical reasons = a 24k btu coil provided with only 12k btu of cooling and a fan moving air at a rate of speed appropriate for a 24k btu coil will not allow condensate to form on the coils. reason being, water forms on the coils when the air surrounding it reaches the dewpoint, if there is too much airflow, the temperature of the air surrounding the coils will never reach the dewpoint, and thus, no formation of condensate. But this is, only if both 24k btu indoor units are running at the same time connected to only one 24k btu external unit.

ive been drinking... so bare with me... basically i lose capacity of dehumidifying if i COULD find a unit to run all 24k to one room and switch..? Or id only have 12k running per room and wouldnt come close...?


if this is right could u do me a favor and recommend something that could bare bulb a 6k ? if i have to id dual zone a humidifier.... but i think a good a/c will do the job i need on humidity....

 

[BigDawg]

the outdoor unit will build up a lot of heat so it needs to be ventilated if you enclose it. Whether it be a garage or basement.

http://www.thermospace.com/ductless_split/ymgi/dual-zone-48000-btu-air-conditioner.php
you need something like this http://www.e-comfortusa.com/product...e-mini-split-heat-pump-system--48000-btu/5972

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

u think i need the dual condenser?

 

[BigDawg]

the mitsubishi is just 1 outdoor condenser and 4 indoor units. you can put 2 indoor units in each room for a total of 24k BTU per room. while room A is cooling, room B can be cooled also. Warranty is 5 year parts / 7 years compressor

48000 btu is big and rare for mini splits so it looks like 2 condensers in 1

 

[Sam the Caveman]

that unit would be perfect, its the right size, its an inverter with a scroll compressor and its rated to work down to zero degrees.

The only thing I would change is the size of the indoor units, that one in the link comes with 4 12k btu indoor units, it would make installation easier with only 2 24k btu indoor units and thats really all you need.

I'm sure it would be cheaper with only 2, 24k btu indoor units, not sure by how much though. Either way, its going to cost, but that would be the cream of the crop unit.

 

[BigDawg]

Yeah it would be nice to have two 24k for easier installation. Not sure if you can hook two indoor units to a quad zone though. Maybe so. If anything, having 2 indoor units per room would give more of an even spread around the room. I'm gona look for a good dual zone 48000 BTU if i can.. I'll post it here if i find one.

 

[BigDawg]

I'll edit this post if I find more than one.

Here's a dual zone 48000 BTU. It's nearly $6k less than the quad zone mitsubishi so I'm not sure of the quality. It does have a sanyo compressor though. http://www.thermospace.com/ductless_split/ymgi/dual-zone-48000-btu-air-conditioner.php

warranty 1 year parts / 5 years compressor

=======================================

oooo i found a mitsubishi Mr slim dual zone 48000 BTU! http://www.e-comfortusa.com/product...rch&utm_campaign=google_base&utm_content=5655

warranty 5 year parts / 7 years compressor

 

[Sam the Caveman]

I don't really see the benefits of having 6kw on a flip flop vs just having one 12kw room. Maybe if your panel is only 100amp, there would be some benefits, but for a 200 amp panel, the need for a flip flop doesn't really come into play until you go over 12. These are assuming your living in the same place, if not you can go a bit higher.

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

Poopy just buy the excel and be done with it I am sure you are finding out you are going to spend just as much on a decent mini split system. The excel will work down to -35F!

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

I talked to the the excel air guys and they told me that i would need to units because the damper wouldnt be effecient as i would still need to have a dehumidifier in there at night... so i think im going with one of these mini splits....

 

[PoopyTeaBags]

I don't really see the benefits of having 6kw on a flip flop vs just having one 12kw room. Maybe if your panel is only 100amp, there would be some benefits, but for a 200 amp panel, the need for a flip flop doesn't really come into play until you go over 12. These are assuming your living in the same place, if not you can go a bit higher.

well the main reason i was doing it was to try and get away without a a/c.... which would probably work but then i needed a sante fe for 1500, so i thought well if im gonna buy that i mines well spend another 1500 and grab a a/c that will do both... which is what got me asking these questions.....

 

[nomaad]

why not just have one unit ducted to the two rooms..?

one room's ducting is cut off while the other's is open. might need a flip flop switch for thermostats too?

am i oversimplifying?

I am building my first indoor room... no experience, just throwing ideas out there.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Having a lung room would work out nice, basically a sealed hallway that you can access each grow room from. In this hallway would be the dehumidifier, a/c and co2, then in each room have passive intakes from the hallway and carbon filters blowing air into the hallway.