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When knowledge is suppressed we all lose.

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The Tri Guy
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well we're doing our best, the pope is doing his bit with the condom issue, we're launching wars where there needn't be any, we're leaving our own population to live on the streets if their economic value is considered too low. We're reducing domestically grown food to the level where if we are outbid on the open market there will be no way to feed our own population. We're driving up oil prices so that only the rich can afford to pollute heavily and you even have some americans arguing that they dont want free health care given out to everyone as only the rich should be allowed access to decent health care. And yet some people are still having 3 or more kids so clearly we arent doing enough to cull the numbers.
On a more serious note, I agree that population control is a vitial issue for the future, but then you get some saying "i want the right to as many kids as i want". until we accept that there is a problem to solve though, how can we begin to discus the solutions to the problem at hand. This is why denying the evidence is so harmfull. If it was just a case of people saying I believe electricity is really little fairies flying down the wires and taking turns in working the machinery inside, then we could sit back and laugh at them without concern, but its the fact that we need to address the issue that means we need to tackle the deniers.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
well we're doing our best, the pope is doing his bit with the condom issue, we're launching wars where there needn't be any, we're leaving our own population to live on the streets if their economic value is considered too low. We're reducing domestically grown food to the level where if we are outbid on the open market there will be no way to feed our own population. We're driving up oil prices so that only the rich can afford to pollute heavily and you even have some americans arguing that they dont want free health care given out to everyone as only the rich should be allowed access to decent health care. And yet some people are still having 3 or more kids so clearly we arent doing enough to cull the numbers.
its a start...

On a more serious note, I agree that population control is a vitial issue for the future, but then you get some saying "i want the right to as many kids as i want". until we accept that there is a problem to solve though, how can we begin to discus the solutions to the problem at hand. This is why denying the evidence is so harmfull. If it was just a case of people saying I believe electricity is really little fairies flying down the wires and taking turns in working the machinery inside, then we could sit back and laugh at them without concern, but its the fact that we need to address the issue that means we need to tackle the deniers.

deny accept right or wrong your never going to change animal instinct.
we are critters...smart critters but critters none the less. fight fuck eat kill.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
you assume i have not read studied and drawn my own conclusions...
Your statements strongly suggest that there is a great deal you have not read and studied.
hell your so smug and defensive over GW you dont even try to understand what your opponents believe...
That's where you are wrong. I read every single article and paper I can find on the topic, regardless of perspective. I want to have complete understanding of what those who disagree believe, and have studied toward that end.
you could not tell me right now if i believe GW is real or just not man made?
or do i believe it is partially man made and just not as catastrophic as proported?
maybe i believe we are like a case of fleas to the planet and she will just shake us off when we actually start to damage her?

you would not know my position because your to busy trying to "have the upper hand" to even know what your saying or who your saying it to ;)
It does not matter precisely what your position is and I'm not going to try and guess what you believe.
But as far as what you do not believe,
I can make some very good guesses based on your commentary.

You do not believe that mankind is causing our planet to warm in a manner which is detrimental via CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels.


So, mr.ambiguous exactly what is your position?
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
of course ive believed "denialisim" was absolute crap and a bullshit tactic since the state of flordia baker acted me into a rehab @ 16 for "marijuana addiction" and that was DECADES ago...
they told me i was an addict..i told them marijuana was a non addictive substance, they replied "your in denial"
i realized right then the idea of "denialisim" was just a tactic.

that has nothing to do with denialism... other than the fact that the people who were in charge of your rehab were scientific denialists, denying the scientifically proven truth about marijuana as a benificial non-addictive substance.

You were a victim of denialism

odd that you are unable to conceptualize the huge difference in the definition
of denial and denialism...
all denial is not denialism, and scientific denialism is an even more specific concept.


They confused you so badly by accusing you of denial, that you are blinded to their scientific denialism which motivated their false accusation.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
You do not believe that mankind is causing our planet to warm in a manner which is detrimental via CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels.


So, mr.ambiguous exactly what is your position?
i dont believe that is relevant to the topic of the thread... sorry couldn't help it.

to be honest as far as "mankind is causing our planet to warm in a manner which is detrimental via CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels."

im undecided...

the word "detrimental" is awfully subjective.

but truly and honestly..undecided
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
that has nothing to do with denialism... other than the fact that the people who were in charge of your rehab were scientific denialists, denying the scientifically proven truth about marijuana as a benificial non-addictive substance.

You were a victim of denialism
no i was a victim of using "denialisim" as a tactic.
spin however you want.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
maybe its all the acid back in the day


but this

and this

dont reconcile

Yes they do.

If you have no evidence then you have no position.

If your position is 'undecided' then there is nothing for me to try and understand.

There is no need for me to try and understand every impossibility anyone could imagine up... only those things with enough supporting evidence to be in the realm of probably, and only those things that actually apply to whatever topic is being discussed at the time.

In this case what you seem not to believe is infinitely more important than what you do believe... especially since you won't state your belief or provide evidence to support it.
 
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The Tri Guy
Veteran
you know dag, I'm starting to think that you agree with us on the subject but want to play devils advocate. whether thats to keep the thread alive or because you enjoy arguing the subject or simply because you dont believe anything can be done about it I dont know.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
i dont believe that is relevant to the topic of the thread... sorry couldn't help it.

to be honest as far as "mankind is causing our planet to warm in a manner which is detrimental via CO2 emissions from burning fossil fuels."

im undecided...

the word "detrimental" is awfully subjective.

but truly and honestly..undecided

If you are truly and honestly undecided, then you will really enjoy the depth of the detailed information on the Skeptical Science website. If you read the discussions below the articles you can find all the sides of the arguments discussed in detail. If you read all of the blog posts you'll find rebuttals by prominent deniers and skeptics.

Over the last 10 years I've moved from very skeptical of AGW to damn near convinced, The multiple lines of converging evidence which have been verified independently by multiple scientists around the world are far more compelling than the disjointed cherry-picked unsupportable arguments those denying AGW put forth.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
No.
They denied the valid science.

Their denialism caused them to say something untrue about you, and treat you unfairly.

open your mind a little.

nothing for you to argue here.

it happens all the time.
someone makes an incorrect statement,they are corrected,the corrector is called a denialist.
denilisim as a tactic.

your preferred usage from the standpoint of the first persons perspective is only one side of a trilateral equation. telling me to open my mind because you see only one myopic view is flabbergasting!
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
nothing for you to argue here.

it happens all the time.
someone makes an incorrect statement,they are corrected,the corrector is called a denialist.
denilisim as a tactic.

your preferred usage from the standpoint of the first persons perspective is only one side of a trilateral equation. telling me to open my mind because you see only one myopic view is flabbergasting!

Saying someone is in denial is not the same as saying someone is a denialist.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
your right...denial is a word ;)


but seriously..

it kinda is just that.
Denialism is choosing to deny an empirically verifiable reality, because you find it somehow unpalatable.
Denialism is the rejection of basic concepts that are undisputed and well-supported parts of the scientific consensus on a topic.

While they may seem similar, being in denial is a psychological condition... Denialism is a conscious choice to ignore evidence.
 

midgethorse

Member
Lol wow, ,kinda thought the first post, this denialism was drifting towards Global Warming.,Then bang! Ya hit us with an awesome Global Warming read!

Thanks
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
Denialism is choosing to deny an empirically verifiable reality, because you find it somehow unpalatable.
Denialism is the rejection of basic concepts that are undisputed and well-supported parts of the scientific consensus on a topic.

While they may seem similar, being in denial is a psychological condition... Denialism is a conscious choice to ignore evidence.

denialisim is a tactic used to discredit any opposition.
its not just used by AGW proponents its every poli/sci/religious group that uses the tactic.
 

Grat3fulh3ad

The Voice of Reason
Veteran
keep reading... lotsa non-global warming stuff, too... just seems like the think most of the posters push the discussion toward...

How 'bout those AIDS denialists?
 
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