ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[JackTheGrower]

JJ has family that lives in Antioch and many other friends throughout the State so I'm kept current of what's going on. Nice try though.

I don't consider environment when I look at Cannabis legalization. I consider us all one group fighting for a single cause. And that cause is for people to be able to grow and smoke their own cannabis without fear of arrest or persecution.....

If this Bill fails, not only will it send the message that people don't want legalization, but it will also send the message that a LOT of people are making money under the table and don't want the law changed.

Are you guys prepared for those repercussions?

I disagree that Prop 19 failing means people don't want Cannabis legalized.

I told the Meeting of Prop 19 people I thought we should aim for 2012.
That was before I understood what Prop 19 stood for.

If this Proposition fails to pass I'm betting it will be by a small margin. What Tom will do then with his BILL is then up to bat.
Remember there is a Assembly Bill pending too.

But will this be the one and only chance to really Legalize? I seriously doubt it.
The Cannabis Cat is way way out of the bag now..

We have California Cannabis Initiative, Jack Herrer's and Prop 19 to draw on to make a new Proposition.
To raise $2 million dollars it just takes 100,000 $20 donations.
It can be done if the People get up and do it.

I do think prop 19 is going to pass. I just don't like some of the things it stands for like rights for property owners only like 1776 all over again.. Only white property owners had a right to vote early on in this Country then it was just White Men and then White woman and finally everyone else. It seems really stupid to start back at only Property owners.

 

[binaryfission]

JJ is in New York?

OMG.. Then He doesn't know what we deal with here in California. I am a Native Californian.

you just now picked up that he is out of state. yet you said you read the thread multiple times.

 

[JackTheGrower]

you just now picked up that he is out of state. yet you said you read the thread multiple times.

Did I say I read this thread multiple times? I haven't even read all of it.

Just to be clear.

I read the Colloidal Silver thread multiple times.

I don't think I wrote that Did I? If so where please.

 

[kmk420kali]

I disagree that Prop 19 failing means people don't want Cannabis legalized.

I told the Meeting of Prop 19 people I thought we should aim for 2012.
That was before I understood what Prop 19 stood for.

If this Proposition fails to pass I'm betting it will be by a small margin. What Tom will do then with his BILL is then up to bat.
Remember there is a Assembly Bill pending too.

But will this be the one and only chance to really Legalize? I seriously doubt it.
The Cannabis Cat is way way out of the bag now..

We have California Cannabis Initiative, Jack Herrer's and Prop 19 to draw on to make a new Proposition.
To raise $2 million dollars it just takes 100,000 $20 donations.
It can be done if the People get up and do it.

I do think prop 19 is going to pass. I just don't like some of the things it stands for like rights for property owners only like 1776 all over again.. Only white property owners had a right to vote early on in this Country then it was just White Men and then White woman and finally everyone else. It seems really stupid to start back at only Property owners.

Hey Ernst...how's it going bro--
I have to disagree here tho-- If 19 fails to pass a Vote of the People...there is no way in Hell that you will get enough support from Politicians and Lawmakers to Pass it with a Bill, as that would be Political Suicide for many-- It would be construed to look like they were skirting the Will of the People--

 

[blancorasta]

Blancorasta: At the same time as inflation has been affecting the price of marijuana, so have the laws of supply and demand. And, whether or not we like to see it, marijuana is naturally droppin in price because it was so heavily inflated against risk factors that are melting away in california. The economics of the why the plant has not kept up with inflation is more complex than your posts suggest.

I agree with the asessment in your second post. truly fine marijuana will retain value like truly fine wine. Competition will thin the herd, but microbrews of all kinds will remain... unless the valid concerns about 19 play out in a worst case scenario sort of way. But that seems unlikely.

4 sure the increase in supply in cali has contributed to keeping the prices lower than other states.

but my point was that inflation hasnt effected the price of cannabis, caused the price to go up, because the traditional economic rules dont apply to cannabis when dominated by a blackmarket.

so sure the influx of supply would cause that $320 oz to drop to $200 if you didnt take inflation into account. taking into account that the price of gold has nearly trippled in the last five years, meaning your dollar has lost close to 2/3 of its purchasing power; what once cost you $1.65 say a gallon of gas now costs like $3.50. that ounce i got five years ago for $320 should be going for well over $600 before you factor in the supply v. demand.

peace

 

[JackTheGrower]

Hey Ernst...how's it going bro--
I have to disagree here tho-- If 19 fails to pass a Vote of the People...there is no way in Hell that you will get enough support from Politicians and Lawmakers to Pass it with a Bill, as that would be Political Suicide for many-- It would be construed to look like they were skirting the Will of the People--

Who knows exactly until it happens.

If we give up yes it will fade away but since it went mainstream political and we know more folks are in favor than not by the polls I believe as the older folks die the numbers get easier not harder.
This year is possibly the very first year that some sort of Decriminalization for all is possible not the last hence the corporate power grab with Prop 19 limiting production to property owners and those with permission to share-crop so to speak.
I believe it is possible that California won't be first to Decriminalize.

Why is it you think the majority isn't growing in favor?

Are you following Mexico? The Headless bodies hung upside down today?? Mexico may Legalize Cannabis first!

 

[kmk420kali]

Who knows exactly until it happens.

If we give up yes it will fade away but since it went mainstream political and we know more folks are in favor than not by the polls I believe as the older folks die the numbers get easier not harder.
This year is possibly the very first year that some sort of Decriminalization for all is possible not the last hence the corporate power grab with Prop 19 limiting production to property owners and those with permission to share-crop so to speak.
I believe it is possible that California won't be first to Decriminalize.

Why is it you think the majority isn't growing in favor?

Are you following Mexico? The Headless bodies hung upside down today?? Mexico may Legalize Cannabis first!

I am not saying I think the majority isn't growing in favor...but I do dispute the part about the old ppl holding the sway-- Politicians tend to favor their Constituents...Republicans are the most Notorious FOR THE "Anti" Pot Laws....but if you go to a Republican Event...it is all ages there-- Ignorance knows no age--
Oh...and I also don't agree about the Property Owners like you do-- If you are renting their House or Apartment...that is THEIR investment-- Growing indoors is very hard on a building of any kind-- They SHOULD have a say in things that can damage their Investment-- There is plenty of cheap land and housing to buy...but it may not be in a Premium Spot--

 

[JackTheGrower]

I am not saying I think the majority isn't growing in favor...but I do dispute the part about the old ppl holding the sway-- Politicians tend to favor their Constituents...Republicans are the most Notorious FOR THE "Anti" Pot Laws....but if you go to a Republican Event...it is all ages there-- Ignorance knows no age--
Oh...and I also don't agree about the Property Owners like you do-- If you are renting their House or Apartment...that is THEIR investment-- Growing indoors is very hard on a building of any kind-- They SHOULD have a say in things that can damage their Investment-- There is plenty of cheap land and housing to buy...but it may not be in a Premium Spot--

Well I never said that renters agreements can be voided by legal rights to grow by the Citizen I said the part of Prop 19 only allowing Property owners to grow is wrong.

If you think a bit you will agree too. This Property owners get rights but non-property owners don't is far right concepts that founded this country at the same time Blacks were in chains and Native Americans killed on sight.

It was ignorant then and it is ignorant now.

So I won't be sad if prop 19 fails because of that alone. If it passes I trust all the folks desperate for change in changing times will be just as active after November 2, 2010 California time.

The Eyes of the world are on California. The Cat is out of the Prohibition bag and it will never be the same again even if Prop 19 fails!

I understand the political machine favors big money. We all see that when children go hungry in the USA but billions go missing in the Middle East.

What I also understand is regular folks compromise too quickly and not because they are weak but because they are sensible in a non-sensible world.

We are all too ready to accept Rule by the Wealthy with Property owners only in prop 19 so we can have the crumbs of not being arrested for buying yet another product we cannot manufacture at home even when it is a natural plant that grows in the sun free!

In my opinion we have to fight Far Right laws wherever we see them.
Far right is fascism.
Property owners represent a special class called the wealthy in Prop 19 IMO and they alone are privileged to have a garden and then just so much of one as to not compete with commercial corporations and commercial sales.
Just a Token right to grow that is revocable by legislature.
We could see only Authorized Weed sold in stores by law! Potency and kind strictly regulated and generated by Corporations alone.
Prop 19 opens those doors by not giving every person the right to have a garden where possible IMO.

So Prop 19 may be a bold step but it is a Goose Step.

 

[kmk420kali]

Well I never said that renters agreements can be voided by legal rights to grow by the Citizen I said the part of Prop 19 only allowing Property owners to grow is wrong.

Bro...you are way off on this...unless I am missing something--
Here is the Text from 19 on this....

Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls

• Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
  1. 1. Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual's personal consumption, and not for sale.
     2. Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.
  
  

That does not fit at all, with what you are saying--
Actually, this sentence, "or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant,"...means you can grow on your non-smoking friend's land!!

 

[JackTheGrower]

I'm not missing the point.

Freedom for Property owners not Freedom per Citizen.

Why is land ownership a requirement to grow a plant?

Why is it a requirement?

Your turn to answer.

 

[blancorasta]

as a renter are you subject to permission in order to grow outdoors?

i dont see why you would, its no different than growing a veggie garden. except the risk of theft, then again if its legal it probably wouldnt be worth the risk of stealing; except for kids hahaha..... little bastards are gonna be jackin gardens left and right... follow your nose.

peace

 

[dagnabit]

I'm not missing the point.

Freedom for Property owners not Freedom per Citizen.

Why is land ownership a requirement to grow a plant?

Why is it a requirement?

Your turn to answer.

where is it a requirement?

your turn to answer.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property.

These words are there for the same reason many, many landlords in CA already write into lease/rental agreements that there shall be no indoor growing regardless of 215 status. Nothing unusual here. This is because there has been alot of damage to rental properties by growers. Its just like some agreements say no aquariums or no pets. When you own a piece of property you have a say in its use by the tenants... whether that is legal or not will shake out in court soon enough but it seems reasonable as long as its in the agreement.

 

[JackTheGrower]

where is it a requirement?

your turn to answer.

Come on..

Read the very thing posted.. It is all relative to property ownership.

But if you need to explain in detail I will.

 

[JackTheGrower]

These words are there for the same reason many, many landlords in CA already write into lease/rental agreements that there shall be no indoor growing regardless of 215 status. Nothing unusual here. This is because there has been alot of damage to rental properties by growers. Its just like some agreements say no aquariums or no pets. When you own a piece of property you have a say in its use by the tenants... whether that is legal or not will shake out in court soon enough but it seems reasonable as long as its in the agreement.

And I agree that the Land owner has the right to allow or not allow things per contract.
That is normal. That already exists.

That we do not authorize Citizens to have Cannabis rights and then negotiate a garden with a landlord as part of the rental agreement is suspect.

Since it is easier and more profitable to deny privilege as a rule then to negotiate we will see more people discriminated against then allowed to have a garden.

My point is People do not have a right to grow the Cannabis plant under Prop 19 Unless a qualifying piece of property is associated with the plant.

That is a problem from my point of view.

I want to see Cannabis Legalized.

 

[kmk420kali]

I'm not missing the point.

Freedom for Property owners not Freedom per Citizen.

Why is land ownership a requirement to grow a plant?

Why is it a requirement?

Your turn to answer.

It is not a Requirement-- You just need to get permission from the person who owns the land/house-- Same as you would if you wanted to put in new carpeting...or change the blinds--
Why should the person who owns the place have to be forced to let their tenant, who may have never done this before....set up a big hydro op in their $250,000 investment??
If it was my house, I would want to make sure it was going to be safe-- I would let them, with a hefty additional deposit...but I would at least want them to ask first--

 

[kmk420kali]

And I agree that the Land owner has the right to allow or not allow things per contract.
That is normal. That already exists.

That we do not authorize Citizens to have Cannabis rights and then negotiate a garden with a landlord as part of the rental agreement is suspect.

Since it is easier and more profitable to deny privilege as a rule then to negotiate we will see more people discriminated against then allowed to have a garden.

My point is People do not have a right to grow the Cannabis plant under Prop 19 Unless a qualifying piece of property is associated with the plant.

That is a problem from my point of view.

I want to see Cannabis Legalized.

If you do not own property, and you agree that Owners have the right to have a decision in it....then what are you talking about?? I am kind of confused--

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Like that has stopped people from growing in rentals? Every house I've rented I've grown in without owners permission...just about every one of them were leased through a property management company who are always far too busy to worry what I'm doing. As long as your not an idiot and repair the house to condition you recieved it in, people usually are none the wiser....

 

[blancorasta]

even if cannabis was 100 percent legal. to grow without land you would have to go guerilla

peace

 

[binaryfission]

My point is People do not have a right to grow the Cannabis plant under Prop 19 Unless a qualifying piece of property is associated with the plant.

That is a problem from my point of view.

I want to see Cannabis Legalized.

If you don't have to own property to grow on or damage it than why don't we all go guerilla style on public lands?

You can dance around the semantics Jack, but your argument holds no water. It isn't workable.