Mothers Clone or Seedlings????

[Brockf4i]

The title states it. Is it better to take a mother from a plant that you grew from a seedling or is better to take a clone off of that plant and keep the clone as a mother? Do you loose any traits or potency in a mother that is clone from a plant that came from a seed? I am honestly looking for advice from those who know. I am sure it can be strain specific but is there a genral concensus? Oh yeah by the way I cant spell

 

[Hydro-Soil]

The title states it. Is it better to take a mother from a plant that you grew from a seedling or is better to take a clone off of that plant and keep the clone as a mother? Do you loose any traits or potency in a mother that is clone from a plant that came from a seed? I am honestly looking for advice from those who know. I am sure it can be strain specific but is there a genral concensus? Oh yeah by the way I cant spell

It's the same plant, doesn't matter. People do report increased plant size with some strains when flowering out the seed plant. Can't say I've done that enough to tell either way but a clone of a plant is an exact copy anyway so it's fine no matter what you do.

Only reason a clone would be any different from the mother is if it gets damaged somehow stress or whatnot.

 

[richirich_99]

im interested in seeing what everyone elses thoughts are on this. I just planted a bunch of seeds and would like to see what would be the best way to find 2 or 3 mothers for my sog.

 

[aceofspades]

I was always under the impression that if I grew a seed and it turned out to be female, then cloned from that said female then it would be best. I hear some people taking clones from a clone and I thought that lead to losing traits in some ways?

Ace

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I hear some people taking clones from a clone and I thought that lead to losing traits in some ways?

Like my first post on this.....


Only a clone that gets stressed or diseased will lose traits. A cutting that grows root without issues is the exact same plant it was cut from.

 

[Strike99]

Like my first post on this.....


Only a clone that gets stressed or diseased will lose traits. A cutting that grows root without issues is the exact same plant it was cut from.

not necessarily true.... genetic degradation does take place if you clone from a clone from a clone from a clone, etc.

the first from a clone off a clone will show no degradation what so ever.... but if you continue the process you will end up with a sad, slow growing plant.


The only benefit of taking clones is speed and the ability to retain the genetic traits and sexual maturity of its mother.

.... with that being said... it would be more beneficial, in my opinion to use clones as the veg period is decreased quite a bit and you can produce a lot in a short time...

the only thing I see affecting the amount of yield is with a seed plant the root mass will have had time to accumulate as compared to that of a clone... just because of the time it took to reach sexual maturity... this would allow for more uptake of water, ferts, gases, etc... allowing for more energy / food stuffs to be devoted to flower maturation when it is necessary

also for sexing your seeds richirich ... i would take clones off the seedlings once they are large enough... then flower the clones... mothers that have been reverted are never the same (with any plant species that are photo-periodic )... at least from what I have seen...

just my 2 cents... just got me flustered when you said that degradation does not take place when you take a clone from a clone from a clone.... because it certainly does

 

[dewroc6]

isnt the point of a mother ....to (extract)clones?

 

[Strike99]

isnt the point of a mother ....to (extract)clones?

yes; but it is generally a plant that is started from seed... thus able to maintain the genetic information... but, if you keep cloning of clones then you will run into some issues.... hence the benefit of a mother plant....

its like photocopying.... you take a copy of a copy, of a copy, of a copy, etc the image will decline until you are unable distinguish anything... dumbing down but you get the point...

the genetic information becomes weakened if you keep cloning off clones... however, you could probably take a first set of clones (from the original seed) and use them as mothers if you choose... as genetic info will have not declined enough to get a noticeable effect... could probably do it a few times... but what is the point when you can have a healthy seed mother that will produce healthy clones for 5+ years....

 

[Brockf4i]

This makes sense. I would never mother a clone of a clone of a clone and so on. Just wondered about one clone or seedling. when first gettin started it is nice to flower the seedlings and use the clone for a mother so you can have a good first harvest to pay back initial investment. Thanks again guys there is so much knowledge on this board it is Grrrreeeaaat like tony said... Peace

 

[PrivateAero]

rollitup has some threads on a clone from a cloned clone and a clone from a clone from a clone. People seem to disagree on how soon or if at all the degradation occurs. I'd look into it further if I were you.

 

[amoril]

ive been in some debates on this issue

I feel that cannabis, like all living things, is subject to degradation of the telomere, eventually preventing cellular reproduction, and as such growth.

This would effect both a mother from a seed, or a clone similarly.

It probably wont occur for decades though....but all plants, whether from seed or clone, will eventually lose their vigor.

that said, there's no evidence supporting an advantage of making a mother out of a seedplant than a clone.

 

[Strike99]

Interesting ill definitely check out their findings... I was not saying it was happening quickly I am just saying it is definitely occurring...and that, is it really worth it to take that risk when you can have genetically perfect clones every time.... I'm getting most of my research from scientific journals, text books, and professors from the major I am in.... most of which are not pertaining to cannabis...
its generally related to horticultural crops... but from what I have seen... most plant species do have an issue with it (if they can be cloned at all...) and they do not recommend it.... so I have been under the assumption that it was the same for cannabis...
I don't have any experience with this type of event mainly cause I never took the time to test it out (nor wanted to)... maybe its time so I can speak from my own experience and possibly learn some interesting things

 

[Hydro-Soil]

the first from a clone off a clone will show no degradation what so ever.... but if you continue the process you will end up with a sad, slow growing plant.

Where did you get this information? (Edit: Maybe I should read more closely. Gah!)


When I take a cutting from a plant and grow roots on it..... it's the same plant. We're not talking a xerox copy so there's nothing lost. There are breeders who have cuttings from 20 year old strains that are just as potent today as they were originally.


Again, as long as you don't screw the cutting up before it grows roots, the plant is the exact same plant as the original, just with a new root structure. as long as it's kept in a healthy state of growth, the genetics of your plant will determine it's life expectancy.

 

[Strike99]

yeah i see what you mean, but did they keep the same mother for that time? cause that would make sense

what I'm meaning is some one who takes a clone, vegs and clones then flwrs that clone... then vegs that second clone, takes a clone from that one and flowers off the second clone, continuing to veg the third.... and the process continues... so in that situation there would be no mother... just a clone from a clone from a clone.....if that made any sense....

that's my look on how degradation would come about... if some one holds the same mother for years I don't see an issue taking place unless that mother is substantially old or is in poor condition....

hope that clears up what I am trying to say... maybe I got off on the wrong tangent from the start.... keeping a mother and cloning it you will definitely not have any issues with degradation for a long period of time....

 

[Hydro-Soil]

what I'm meaning is some one who takes a clone, vegs and clones then flwrs that clone... then vegs that second clone, takes a clone from that one and flowers off the second clone, continuing to veg the third.... and the process continues... so in that situation there would be no mother... just a clone from a clone from a clone.....if that made any sense....

What you're describing there should be just fine. The danger is that by going strictly from clone to clone to clone, you risk damaging your rooting clone at some point and causing the problems you mention. Generally people do this to keep their plant numbers down (ridiculous laws) so taking additional clones "just in case" can cause you issues.

When plant numbers are a low to moderate concern, Bonsai mums present the best solution. They only take up a very small space and can be kept alive with one or two CFLs in a small area.

 

[wickedpete66]

I was always under the impression that if I grew a seed and it turned out to be female, then cloned from that said female then it would be best. I hear some people taking clones from a clone and I thought that lead to losing traits in some ways?

Ace

Clones are genetically identical to the mother it was taken from. so the clones will be the same no matter how many times it is cloned.

think of it like a digital recording. the 1000 recording will still sound as good as the original.