215 says nothing about Taxes on Grows, and 19 specifically exempts Personal Grows from Taxation-- RC's "Law", if passed, will be shot down by SCOTUS....that is a slammer-- Same as 215 "Limits"--
ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010
- Thread starter JJScorpio
- Start date
- Status
215 says nothing about Taxes on Grows, and 19 specifically exempts Personal Grows from Taxation-- RC's "Law", if passed, will be shot down by SCOTUS....that is a slammer-- Same as 215 "Limits"--
I am pretty well read except for politics, I don't have any interest at all, I did read "T Paine" not Payne when I was young. I can read at between 1500 and 2000 words a minute with close to 100% comprehension, I own thousands of books, I have read almost all of them. Mostly science/history books. You really don't know me.
And I do understand "your point of view" I just have zero respect for it.
Maybe if you answered my questions that you have avoided three times now, I might have a little respect and try to understand what you are saying, but to be honest I do not believe you really even believe it yourself, you are just looking for verbal sparing partners, that and your desire to espouse your "worker and land" theories to others.
No problem, I will put you on ignore, what I should of done before, I was really hoping that you would try and answer my questions, I should of guessed you never would. Good luck with empowering the workers.....
-SamS
i'm starting to come to the conclusion that no one really knows what all the consequences of 19 will be. only time will tell...
when i read that they drafted 14 versions of prop 19 before including any medical exemptions in the language, it makes me uneasy. i wonder to myself if this is not some sneaky way to get things back under government control in Cali.
I would not be too surprised if all cultivation rights in Cali, that were won in courts for caregivers and medical etc, will get scaled back to the 25sf. >>>>taking bets
would also not surprise me that the whole currently operating dispensary economy will be declared illegal unless they get the licenses. same for those currently legally supplying said med economy. (bet?)
no one will be happier then myself if 6 months after 19 passes we all still agree it was the best thing for cannabis in California. i will eat my words, but some how i don't think i'll end up being wrong about at least some of my fears concerning 19. that is not to say that over all 19 might not still be a step forward, over time, but i'm sure there will be battles to be fought to make 19 into the happy place so many think it will be right away.
when i read that they drafted 14 versions of prop 19 before including any medical exemptions in the language, it makes me uneasy. i wonder to myself if this is not some sneaky way to get things back under government control in Cali.
I would not be too surprised if all cultivation rights in Cali, that were won in courts for caregivers and medical etc, will get scaled back to the 25sf. >>>>taking bets
would also not surprise me that the whole currently operating dispensary economy will be declared illegal unless they get the licenses. same for those currently legally supplying said med economy. (bet?)
no one will be happier then myself if 6 months after 19 passes we all still agree it was the best thing for cannabis in California. i will eat my words, but some how i don't think i'll end up being wrong about at least some of my fears concerning 19. that is not to say that over all 19 might not still be a step forward, over time, but i'm sure there will be battles to be fought to make 19 into the happy place so many think it will be right away.
i'm starting to come to the conclusion that no one really knows what all the consequences of 19 will be. only time will tell...
when i read that they drafted 14 versions of prop 19 before including any medical exemptions in the language, it makes me uneasy. i wonder to myself if this is not some sneaky way to get things back under government control in Cali.
I would not be too surprised if all cultivation rights in Cali, that were won in courts for caregivers and medical etc, will get scaled back to the 25sf. >>>>taking bets
would also not surprise me that the whole currently operating dispensary economy will be declared illegal unless they get the licenses. same for those currently legally supplying said med economy. (bet?)
no one will be happier then myself if 6 months after 19 passes we all still agree it was the best thing for cannabis in California. i will eat my words, but some how i don't think i'll end up being wrong about at least some of my fears concerning 19. that is not to say that over all 19 might not still be a step forward, over time, but i'm sure there will be battles to be fought to make 19 into the happy place so many think it will be right away.
You're sounding like the paranoid passenger in the hot box when the police pull up...
"What if they find the roach? and the bong? and if they find out our license are suspended? and I still have this dime bag in my pocket! o no, we're fucked!"
then the officer pulls up and tells you your right tail light is out and you can go along your way.
had the paranoid passanger voiced his fears directly to the enemy the whole ship would sink.
I doubt ANYONE could have foretold the widespread use of MMJ when prop215 and sb420 were first going on the books.
As a matter of fact, had people been advertising 215 as the free for all it is now, would it have still even passed?
i'm starting to come to the conclusion that no one really knows what all the consequences of 19 will be. only time will tell...
when i read that they drafted 14 versions of prop 19 before including any medical exemptions in the language, it makes me uneasy. i wonder to myself if this is not some sneaky way to get things back under government control in Cali.
I would not be too surprised if all cultivation rights in Cali, that were won in courts for caregivers and medical etc, will get scaled back to the 25sf. >>>>taking bets
would also not surprise me that the whole currently operating dispensary economy will be declared illegal unless they get the licenses. same for those currently legally supplying said med economy. (bet?)
no one will be happier then myself if 6 months after 19 passes we all still agree it was the best thing for cannabis in California. i will eat my words, but some how i don't think i'll end up being wrong about at least some of my fears concerning 19. that is not to say that over all 19 might not still be a step forward, over time, but i'm sure there will be battles to be fought to make 19 into the happy place so many think it will be right away.
That is why, altho I am on the Yes side...I always say it is "reluctantly"....overall, I, like you think this will be for the good...but some of it makes me nervous also--
I hope that after this Thread has been determined to have "Run it's course" and locked...that it is kept as a Sticky if 19 passes...not so anybody can be ridiculed...but so we can all review our own words...and see where we had too much trust, or too much paranoia...whichever the case may be--
I agree this merry go round has ran it's course. Nothing new has been brought to the argument in over 160 pages. Lock it or not, I'm done with this matter until we hear the results and witness the effects.
Yeah. That's why I haven't' said much in days. I'm too lazy to go back and cut and paste one of the 50 rebuttals of the same point over and over.
But I will repeat that not even Rancho Cordova expects their tax on personal grows (which is separate from 19) will pass.
But I will repeat that not even Rancho Cordova expects their tax on personal grows (which is separate from 19) will pass.
J
JackTheGrower
More round and round when we consider the threads that are located in the Cannabis Legalization and Politics forum or is it law and legalization forum.
We have discussed this deep and wide for many months.
We shall see what the Voters want.
From what I can discern everyone wants Cannabis freedom, well that wants cannabis at all, and that even if this Prop 19 passes we are not done. Especially if Prop 19 doesn't pass we are not done.
So please get a vote buddy. Volunteer to register folks to vote and make the effort to have people go vote.
Off-Presidential election years favor Conservatives so to get this voted on by pro cannabis people make sure your friends get off their asses.
Maybe have a call list and call folks the day before and remind them to go vote.
If not then we have to come up with another `1.5 Mill for 2012 which is very doable and another 1 - 4 mil for advertisement which is a bit harder.
CrazyCooter
Member
Why am I here?
Why am I here?
"Why are you here?"
Because of ridiculous statements started in the very first post like,
"there is no reason other than greed that would make someone vote no on this Bill."
"Or maybe don't even live in California?"
Born, raised, and still here. You back from the Netherlands, Sam? How's New York, JJ?
"Are you a 215 grower?"
Just a greedy ass 215 patient that lives in a 1 bedroom cabin in the redwoods that sells patients zips for 200 bucks when they offer 225. Harvested 1 pound and gave my friend a qp.
" am curious how you will react to the "manicuring union" when they demand $50 an hour and medical and paid vacations as well as a lot of other workers rights. I might think you would support them as you want to assure that workers, part of the 90% of americans that do the work, get their fair share?"
If the land/rent situation was not used against the people doing real work, I could give two shits about how much an hour, medical, or vacations. I could collect cans and grow my own food if I didn't have to pay such a backasswards system of land usage.
"But then again you don't like the government telling you what to do, so maybe you will just stay on the side of the 10% of Americans that own everything, and continue to screw any workers you use to help you, if any?"
I don't own anything anymore and I don't have workers. But if I did, the game is set up where you pay them as little as possible to maximize profits. Ain't capitalism great? That's why I live in the hills in a 1 bedroom cabin. I don't want to live off the backs of other humans like the people running this system.
"I noticed you never answered if you do buy gasoline, clothing, automobiles, or other taxed consumables that enrich big business and big government? If yes why do you support them, knowing they will be oppressing the workers?"
I do because I have no other choice. I do not like it and it is not necessary. The only tax we need is a land tax to set this system straight. We don't need any more taxes.
"It is the high prices combined with the growers not wanting to pass Prop 19 because it might upset their income flow, that I really call greedy."
In the last 10 years gas has doubled. Gold has tripled. Yet an ounce of cannabis has gone down in price. The prices may still be too high but they have been dropping over the last 10 years.
"so CrazyCooter, are you going to help your fellow workers and sell to them at a reasonable price, as well as give any workers that help you, full medical, paid vacations, and $50 an hour to manicure? Step up to the plate...."
I already do share at a below market price and sometimes for free. I battle every day with what I need to do to stay out of poverty and still not screw other humans. Lets just say I am still in poverty but content with not being a vampire. I manicure my own, don't have medical since my job was cut, and never worked for any company that offered to pay for a vacation.
I am anything but greedy and I still wouldn't vote yes for this legislation. That is why I was here.
"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
How do you propose to solve a problem using the same political system that created it?
JJ,
I am not preaching life from a book. Just trying to let you guys know that there is a lot of good information about this political machine. The same system that locks you up is the same one you are depending on to free you. Good luck. As sam said, "I am pretty well read except for politics" This is politics. And the political tactics engaged in by you and herb are alienating, not enlightening. I am sure you have heard that a book is like your mind is like a parachute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j8EiWIVZs
"I was really hoping that you would try and answer my questions"
Hope this helps.
Why am I here?
"Why are you here?"
Because of ridiculous statements started in the very first post like,
"there is no reason other than greed that would make someone vote no on this Bill."
"Or maybe don't even live in California?"
Born, raised, and still here. You back from the Netherlands, Sam? How's New York, JJ?
"Are you a 215 grower?"
Just a greedy ass 215 patient that lives in a 1 bedroom cabin in the redwoods that sells patients zips for 200 bucks when they offer 225. Harvested 1 pound and gave my friend a qp.
" am curious how you will react to the "manicuring union" when they demand $50 an hour and medical and paid vacations as well as a lot of other workers rights. I might think you would support them as you want to assure that workers, part of the 90% of americans that do the work, get their fair share?"
If the land/rent situation was not used against the people doing real work, I could give two shits about how much an hour, medical, or vacations. I could collect cans and grow my own food if I didn't have to pay such a backasswards system of land usage.
"But then again you don't like the government telling you what to do, so maybe you will just stay on the side of the 10% of Americans that own everything, and continue to screw any workers you use to help you, if any?"
I don't own anything anymore and I don't have workers. But if I did, the game is set up where you pay them as little as possible to maximize profits. Ain't capitalism great? That's why I live in the hills in a 1 bedroom cabin. I don't want to live off the backs of other humans like the people running this system.
"I noticed you never answered if you do buy gasoline, clothing, automobiles, or other taxed consumables that enrich big business and big government? If yes why do you support them, knowing they will be oppressing the workers?"
I do because I have no other choice. I do not like it and it is not necessary. The only tax we need is a land tax to set this system straight. We don't need any more taxes.
"It is the high prices combined with the growers not wanting to pass Prop 19 because it might upset their income flow, that I really call greedy."
In the last 10 years gas has doubled. Gold has tripled. Yet an ounce of cannabis has gone down in price. The prices may still be too high but they have been dropping over the last 10 years.
"so CrazyCooter, are you going to help your fellow workers and sell to them at a reasonable price, as well as give any workers that help you, full medical, paid vacations, and $50 an hour to manicure? Step up to the plate...."
I already do share at a below market price and sometimes for free. I battle every day with what I need to do to stay out of poverty and still not screw other humans. Lets just say I am still in poverty but content with not being a vampire. I manicure my own, don't have medical since my job was cut, and never worked for any company that offered to pay for a vacation.
I am anything but greedy and I still wouldn't vote yes for this legislation. That is why I was here.
"No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."
How do you propose to solve a problem using the same political system that created it?
JJ,
I am not preaching life from a book. Just trying to let you guys know that there is a lot of good information about this political machine. The same system that locks you up is the same one you are depending on to free you. Good luck. As sam said, "I am pretty well read except for politics" This is politics. And the political tactics engaged in by you and herb are alienating, not enlightening. I am sure you have heard that a book is like your mind is like a parachute.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j8EiWIVZs
"I was really hoping that you would try and answer my questions"
Hope this helps.
J
JackTheGrower
JJ is in New York?
OMG.. Then He doesn't know what we deal with here in California. I am a Native Californian.
OMG.. Then He doesn't know what we deal with here in California. I am a Native Californian.
J
JackTheGrower
JJ has family that lives in Antioch and many other friends throughout the State so I'm kept current of what's going on. Nice try though.
I don't consider environment when I look at Cannabis legalization. I consider us all one group fighting for a single cause. And that cause is for people to be able to grow and smoke their own cannabis without fear of arrest or persecution.....
If this Bill fails, not only will it send the message that people don't want legalization, but it will also send the message that a LOT of people are making money under the table and don't want the law changed.
Are you guys prepared for those repercussions?
I don't consider environment when I look at Cannabis legalization. I consider us all one group fighting for a single cause. And that cause is for people to be able to grow and smoke their own cannabis without fear of arrest or persecution.....
If this Bill fails, not only will it send the message that people don't want legalization, but it will also send the message that a LOT of people are making money under the table and don't want the law changed.
Are you guys prepared for those repercussions?
ahh man,,,you guys are so lucky it gets on my nerves,,,,
Wait just a minute.
Gasoline has doubled.
Gold has tripled.
Price of weed has declined...
where is the problem here?
I spend $50 on a bag of weed and its gone in an evening.
I spend $50 on a tank of gasoline and I can drive a couple hundred miles over night or drive around town ALL week.
I spend $50 on some gold earrings... and a year later, I still have those same earrings.
Where the f*** do people get off trying to support the inflated prices of Marijuana?
This shit used to grow wild by the sides of the road EVERYWHERE.
Shit used to be practically free.
So when you feel like a 'caregiver' because you "only charge $200 for an OZ" please get off of your high horse.
This shit is cheap as dirt if it wasn't for all the fines and penalties associated with it.
Gasoline has doubled.
Gold has tripled.
Price of weed has declined...
where is the problem here?
I spend $50 on a bag of weed and its gone in an evening.
I spend $50 on a tank of gasoline and I can drive a couple hundred miles over night or drive around town ALL week.
I spend $50 on some gold earrings... and a year later, I still have those same earrings.
Where the f*** do people get off trying to support the inflated prices of Marijuana?
This shit used to grow wild by the sides of the road EVERYWHERE.
Shit used to be practically free.
So when you feel like a 'caregiver' because you "only charge $200 for an OZ" please get off of your high horse.
This shit is cheap as dirt if it wasn't for all the fines and penalties associated with it.
if jj's statement doesnt hold water cuz he aint from cali...i am...so lets all just pretend i said it and not him..k?
B
blancorasta
since the removal of the gold standard.
inflation has been at the heart of alot of our problems ( inflation of the money supply in circulation therefor devalues each dollar in curculation, so it takes more dollars to buy the same product) and cannabis has not kept up with inflation for quite some time. i can get 1/8s for 35 or ounces for under 200 now. before it was 50 an 1/8 and 320 an ounce.
inflation steals from everyone thats uses dollars, and people who deal in cannabis get hit even harder cause they cant determine prices for weed off the current gdp index. if they did, what cost 320 a zip 5 years ago would be atleast 500 adjusted for inflation
inflation has been at the heart of alot of our problems ( inflation of the money supply in circulation therefor devalues each dollar in curculation, so it takes more dollars to buy the same product) and cannabis has not kept up with inflation for quite some time. i can get 1/8s for 35 or ounces for under 200 now. before it was 50 an 1/8 and 320 an ounce.
inflation steals from everyone thats uses dollars, and people who deal in cannabis get hit even harder cause they cant determine prices for weed off the current gdp index. if they did, what cost 320 a zip 5 years ago would be atleast 500 adjusted for inflation
B
blancorasta
high quality connoisseur grade cannabis will never be as cheap as dirt, as....
1 the vast majority of people cant produce it especially outdoors
2 variation, if you want something better here it is but its more expensive
3 its still a commodity, takes time and effort to produce and ship plus the sales man needs to get paid
yeah some wild hemp weed that gives you a headache is worthless and some schwag brick weed might become dirt cheap but you might as well smoke some dirt. but quality cannabis will always be valuable as long as there is a desire for its use.
its pretty simple and cheap to distill alcohol from corn and cure it into some whiskey, and yet its not free and not dirt cheap in most cases. as there are people that cant or dont distill there own, but still want to drink it.
peace
1 the vast majority of people cant produce it especially outdoors
2 variation, if you want something better here it is but its more expensive
3 its still a commodity, takes time and effort to produce and ship plus the sales man needs to get paid
yeah some wild hemp weed that gives you a headache is worthless and some schwag brick weed might become dirt cheap but you might as well smoke some dirt. but quality cannabis will always be valuable as long as there is a desire for its use.
its pretty simple and cheap to distill alcohol from corn and cure it into some whiskey, and yet its not free and not dirt cheap in most cases. as there are people that cant or dont distill there own, but still want to drink it.
peace
Blancorasta: At the same time as inflation has been affecting the price of marijuana, so have the laws of supply and demand. And, whether or not we like to see it, marijuana is naturally droppin in price because it was so heavily inflated against risk factors that are melting away in california. The economics of the why the plant has not kept up with inflation is more complex than your posts suggest.
I agree with the asessment in your second post. truly fine marijuana will retain value like truly fine wine. Competition will thin the herd, but microbrews of all kinds will remain... unless the valid concerns about 19 play out in a worst case scenario sort of way. But that seems unlikely.
I agree with the asessment in your second post. truly fine marijuana will retain value like truly fine wine. Competition will thin the herd, but microbrews of all kinds will remain... unless the valid concerns about 19 play out in a worst case scenario sort of way. But that seems unlikely.
J
JackTheGrower
LOL are we always thinking some one is out to get us?
My point is simply being here and living here is different from hearing about things.
Prop 19 directly effects the folks in California. I can understand how desperate New Yorkers are for something.. Anything Cannabis.. I think the Rockefeller laws coming down was a major step forward but I wouldn't go as far as to know what is best for New York because I am a Medical Person in California.
So no harm intended and I get the point that this is a Sore Subject. My suggestion to anyone is if the screen is making us mad then we need to step back and take a deep breath then do something else for a while.
It's just a screen of pixels..
I am not up to anything except living life in California.
I just thought the major players here were in California is all.
Live and learn.
My point is simply being here and living here is different from hearing about things.
Prop 19 directly effects the folks in California. I can understand how desperate New Yorkers are for something.. Anything Cannabis.. I think the Rockefeller laws coming down was a major step forward but I wouldn't go as far as to know what is best for New York because I am a Medical Person in California.
So no harm intended and I get the point that this is a Sore Subject. My suggestion to anyone is if the screen is making us mad then we need to step back and take a deep breath then do something else for a while.
It's just a screen of pixels..
I am not up to anything except living life in California.
I just thought the major players here were in California is all.
Live and learn.
J
JackTheGrower
I agree.. Fine Cannabis will always fetch a price as well as genetics.
Food grade weed well that can be less of a quality. I'm guessing many will choose a pastry or a drink more than a smoke in a coffee-bar.
I for one would like to have the chocolate cream truffles with cannabis..
So As for food grade in bulk I see that being a regulated product.
- Status
