J
JackTheGrower
There are 87 days until
Tuesday, 2 November 2010.
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Tuesday, 2 November 2010.
Is everyone you know registered and going to vote?
ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010
- Thread starter JJScorpio
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R
rick shaw
Meanwhile back at the thread.Today the SF Chronicle they had an interesting story about Steve DeAngelos,harborside owner,very vocal opposition to prop 19 and or legal wharehouse grows.The story goes on to mention Harborsides $21 million dollar gross last year,three times the other three clubs combined.I guess he likes the status quote .At todays American Bar Association convention U.S.Attorney Joe Russoniello predicted more federal arrests if prop 19 passes,I guess he is thinking status quote also.As for this micro grower I voted YES.I am in a gray area now,I do not expect that to change much,but it might help someone else out,plus you get to see gas bags like Limbaugh,Buchannon and McGaughlin have a heart attack.
Z
zen_trikester
Not a tax expert but I will make a point. I don't think anyone thinks that this prop is perfect. That being said, the shit that is going on in RC is an effort to cast doubt on this prop... to get people to not vote for it. The truth is, this is what is on the table and there are no guarantees that there will ever be another opportunity for a public vote on any form of legalization. This very prop is historic and is 80 years in the making!
The way I read the prop, RC has absolutely no rights to tax a personal grow. Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls is the section on commercial ops. There is where it says that the local gov has rights to create taxes and whatnot. It says in Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls Notwithstanding (this means "in spite of" for anyone who isn't sure) any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:
(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300. and then in (k) appropriate taxes or fees pursuant to section 11302
This never says that lawful cultivation through 11300 (the section on personal grows) is affected. So if you aren't selling, the local gov has no right to tax you.
Then it is specifically saying that the tax and local authorities issues are for commercial/11301 ONLY in Section 11302:
Section 11302: Imposition and Collection of Taxes and Fees (a) Any ordinance, regulation or other act adopted pursuant to section 11301 may include imposition of appropriate general, special or excise, transfer or transaction taxes, benefit assessments, or fees, on any activity authorized pursuant to such enactment, in order to permit the local government to raise revenue, or to recoup any direct or indirect costs associated with the authorized activity, or the permitting or licensing scheme, including without limitation: administration; applications and issuance of licenses or permits; inspection of licensed premises and other enforcement of ordinances adopted under section 11301, including enforcement against unauthorized activities.
Then in Section 11304: Effect of Act and Definitions: it clearly states that "licensed premises" is a commercial op, so they have no right per this prop to inspect a personal grow.
Section 11304: Effect of Act and Definitions:
(d) Definitions
(vii) “licensed premises” is any commercial business, facility, building, land or area that has a license, permit or is otherwise authorized to cultivate, process, transport, sell, or permit on-premises consumption, of cannabis pursuant to any ordinance or regulation adopted by a local government pursuant to section 11301, or any subsequently enacted state statute or regulation.
All the language specific to the local government imposing fines is under the commercial section of 11301 and in 11302 where they specifically refer to only 11301.
I don't believe that this prop gives authority to local governments to tax a non-commercial op. You can be sure that the whole fear mongering tactics of RC will be put to rest with the first case that gets tried if prop 19 passes. If 19 doesn't pass, I'm not sure how or if 215 will protect personal grows from taxation, but it sounds like they are gunning for growers in general in RC, and in this case 19 should offer additional protection for anyone who is specifically growing for personal use within the prop 19 guidelines. I've never read 215, so I can't say if there is any language in there that would prevent taxing, but either way, as we all know, prop 19 has no effect on 215 so if you are covered from that now you are good to go.
Jed
localhero
Member
great post zen,
thats a relief, cant believe i missed the importance of the pursuant to 11301. what total bulshit would that have been to get taxed on your measley 25 ft. thats like 2 slaps on the face. that seriously does do some good for the people stuck in prohibitionist counties.
what would help alot for the folks in those areas would be a lobby interest to champion laws to expand on the 25 floor. if their county wont permit store fronts, it will be even more important for them to be able to supply their own.
the people who would stand to financially benefit the most from dry counties would be the exploding seed and clone industry, purveyors of fine genetics. you guys read this i know, it would serve your interest and those without easy access to be able to grow more than 25'.
thats a relief, cant believe i missed the importance of the pursuant to 11301. what total bulshit would that have been to get taxed on your measley 25 ft. thats like 2 slaps on the face. that seriously does do some good for the people stuck in prohibitionist counties.
what would help alot for the folks in those areas would be a lobby interest to champion laws to expand on the 25 floor. if their county wont permit store fronts, it will be even more important for them to be able to supply their own.
the people who would stand to financially benefit the most from dry counties would be the exploding seed and clone industry, purveyors of fine genetics. you guys read this i know, it would serve your interest and those without easy access to be able to grow more than 25'.
i'm sure that's part of their game, that and they are trying to get ahead of any and all MJ grows
part of what they have thrown up looks completely bogus, it looks like they're throwing everything possible at 19/215, and hoping some will stick in the courts
i did a bit of reading on what is allowed under california municipal law
municipalities may tax based upon police/fire/emergency services
normally, this should be a 'special tax', which requires a 2/3 vote to pass(not the usual 1/2)
instead, they seemed to have passed a legislative ordinance(i think this is the term) to amend existing law so they can assess a sky high tax on MJ grows(even residential) for an expected increase in police services for these residences
i doubt they expect this to holdup completely, but they'd take anything they could get is my guess
look man, i'm not really even sure what this argument is about. but i noticed that it has become an argument and a pointless one at that.
i seem to be guilty of trying to win said argument too, so i'm calling it a day. specially as we are in agreement about needing 19 passed, and that being the subject of the thread after all.
you are correct i'm most definitely not always right, i don't think i ever actually implied such a thing.
i hope that i will always be objective enough to be able to change my opinion when new facts come to my attention that show me i was wrong, or not seeing the whole picture, or what ever.
in my location it will not be legal after prop 19 passes. wish it were so, although we do have our own legalization schemes underway, which will have that much more chance of passing if Cali passes 19.
seems you guys are lost in the fog, hopefully this will show you the scam you want us all to vote for
Rancho Cordova readies measure to tax marijuana cultivators
Voters in Rancho Cordova will decide in November whether to tax residents who grow their own pot.
The city measure, put on the Nov. 2 ballot by the City Council this week, would impose taxes on all local residential cultivation if California voters approve Proposition 19 to legalize recreational use.
But the city's proposed "Personal Cannabis Cultivation Tax" also makes no distinction between medical and recreational cultivation. So the tax would kick in for anyone currently cultivating for personal medical use -- whether Prop 19 passes or not.
If passed by local voters, the taxation measure in the Sacramento County city would make at-home cultivation a much more expensive endeavor.
The Rancho Cordova measure would impose a $600 annual tax per square foot of indoor cultivation of 25 square feet of marijuana or less and a $900 per square foot tax if the indoor growing area is more than 25 square feet.
The city tax would cost a local indoor grower $6,000 a year on 10 square feet of pot plants and $15,000 for 25 square feet. Outdoor growers, who would be billed at a lower rate, would pay a $1,200 residential tax for 25 square feet of marijuana plants.
If Proposition 19 passes, it would allow California adults over 21 to cultivate in a 25-square foot residential space. Medical growers often exceed those limits by cultivating with other pot patients.
Under California law, individuals with physicians' recommendations for marijuana can have six mature or 12 immature plants and eight ounces of dried pot at any time.
The California Supreme Court has ruled that medical users can exceed those limits if their cultivation is consistent with their medical needs.
Posted by Peter Hecht
Rancho Cordova readies measure to tax marijuana cultivators
Voters in Rancho Cordova will decide in November whether to tax residents who grow their own pot.
The city measure, put on the Nov. 2 ballot by the City Council this week, would impose taxes on all local residential cultivation if California voters approve Proposition 19 to legalize recreational use.
But the city's proposed "Personal Cannabis Cultivation Tax" also makes no distinction between medical and recreational cultivation. So the tax would kick in for anyone currently cultivating for personal medical use -- whether Prop 19 passes or not.
If passed by local voters, the taxation measure in the Sacramento County city would make at-home cultivation a much more expensive endeavor.
The Rancho Cordova measure would impose a $600 annual tax per square foot of indoor cultivation of 25 square feet of marijuana or less and a $900 per square foot tax if the indoor growing area is more than 25 square feet.
The city tax would cost a local indoor grower $6,000 a year on 10 square feet of pot plants and $15,000 for 25 square feet. Outdoor growers, who would be billed at a lower rate, would pay a $1,200 residential tax for 25 square feet of marijuana plants.
If Proposition 19 passes, it would allow California adults over 21 to cultivate in a 25-square foot residential space. Medical growers often exceed those limits by cultivating with other pot patients.
Under California law, individuals with physicians' recommendations for marijuana can have six mature or 12 immature plants and eight ounces of dried pot at any time.
The California Supreme Court has ruled that medical users can exceed those limits if their cultivation is consistent with their medical needs.
Posted by Peter Hecht
an 'evolved' person would apologize for all the insults as i offered none to you.
peace, SOG
J
JackTheGrower
McClatchey Papers Presents Tokers in a Good light. 180 degree turn round
Good news for Pro-prop 19 folks.. The leading Central Valley news paper corporation is sliding towards supporting Prop19 IMO.
Good news for Pro-prop 19 folks.. The leading Central Valley news paper corporation is sliding towards supporting Prop19 IMO.
which scam? prop 19 or the RC's tax scheme?
the RC tax will happen prop 19 or not(or will try to happen)
again, a lot of what RC has put together seems very sketchy and may not go very far in the court system
the scam to have a bunch of stoners vote for the first pile of crap legalization bill to come into play just because they knew we would vote for anything with the word legalization
RC is just a taste bro of whats going to happen, whether or not your think it will go very far in the court system, I have not idea how you conclude that nor do I care as I see you live in NY. You should stop wasting your time in this thread and go write your congress to pass a medical bill
RC is just a taste bro of whats going to happen, whether or not your think it will go very far in the court system, I have not idea how you conclude that nor do I care as I see you live in NY. You should stop wasting your time in this thread and go write your congress to pass a medical bill
that would be the state legislature, which i do, and we are close to MMJ in NY
i post here because some us believe it is all the same issue, a national issue, what happens in Cali affects me and others
others, like yourself apparently, just see the local situation
you're free to believe as you choose, just don't expect everyone to agree with you
CrazyCooter
Member
With increased taxes and regulations, how much of a price drop will there be for the consumer?
At what rate will cannabis be taxed? 10, 20, 30%?
As far as I can tell, California growers have the fascists by the balls. The fascists want in on the money and the growers say, "Fine. But not with 19 because it is a piss poor bill."
Californians have it good right now and need to demand a better bill. Especially if this is going to kick off legalization as you call it.
The fascists need to write a better bill. If you can't see that, you are probably in a different state.
What do you guys expect to happen when you make a deal with the devil? I expect individuality to be lost even more.
Californians should hold out for a better bill. The individuals growing have the upper hand right now and we can demand a better law. Let's get it right the first time.
At what rate will cannabis be taxed? 10, 20, 30%?
As far as I can tell, California growers have the fascists by the balls. The fascists want in on the money and the growers say, "Fine. But not with 19 because it is a piss poor bill."
Californians have it good right now and need to demand a better bill. Especially if this is going to kick off legalization as you call it.
The fascists need to write a better bill. If you can't see that, you are probably in a different state.
What do you guys expect to happen when you make a deal with the devil? I expect individuality to be lost even more.
Californians should hold out for a better bill. The individuals growing have the upper hand right now and we can demand a better law. Let's get it right the first time.
Yep I do see as a local situation, which it is. I honestly could care less if I tried to worry about you getting busted for herb. I've got a life to live and I have and will continue to do whats best for me, not you
I realized that all you out-of-state's think that if its legalized in cali, then if you ever get caught growing in say NY, you can use a defense that "its legal in california, so I shouldnt get in trouble" the whole time your selling your $500oz. hahahaah and you think pot growers out here are greedy? you could make more in NY with 2lights that I could out here with 10
I realized that all you out-of-state's think that if its legalized in cali, then if you ever get caught growing in say NY, you can use a defense that "its legal in california, so I shouldnt get in trouble" the whole time your selling your $500oz. hahahaah and you think pot growers out here are greedy? you could make more in NY with 2lights that I could out here with 10
its exactly what I predict, Get a legalization bill that allows each county to set up its own taxing structure. As soon as its voted it, tax it so heavy, it makes it impossible to afford to grow in your own home or just ban them all together. Then charge $250,000 for a license to grow in industrial warehouses, and then weed-mart runs the show.
i see, you're still having fun eh? don't want this finished ?
oh well, lets continue then. i don't feel any need to apologize, my intent was never to insult. if you go back and reread our exchange you will see that you either deliberately or not misconstrued the meaning of my words in your replies to me, i was just pointing out that you had misunderstood my meaning, there is no insult when it's the plain truth. i never laughed at BigHerb, but at the comparison thing, which has been long resolved btw. if you feel an exchange of apologies is in order i can live with that but that involves you apologizing that you misrepresented the meaning of my words then i will apologize for any insult i might have caused you by pointing out said fact.
in fact you began this whole exchange in the first place, i wasn't actually addressing you in the first place.
good reply, and i respect that position, lot more honest than many posts here
my 'plan' isn't so much to plead it's legal in cali, it's to begin to break DEA's nuts in a vise of changes to state's laws
with me, it's about the screwed up federal law, we break that hold and things will really begin to change
Nice try. There goes your credibility.
I'm in NY. $220.00 per ounce. $160.00 to $200.00 in the fall after harvesting outdoor.
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