Fertilizer and Yield

[Jiu Jitsu Playa]

I feel like saying the truth here. Using special organic fert. and mixes such as fox farm for anything is a rip off. People make money, i seen bat shit for 50 bucks a 15lb box at the hydro store. 90 bucks for sea gull shit. It doesnt make sense to me, i dont know, maybe im not "eco friendly" enough but, i am def "green". Thanks silverback! Miracle Grow works for me!!

 

[slider420]

My point also jiu jitsu playa... I hate when its all about the $$$$

 

[PrinceOfPersia]

Mahuta, dont you think the roots are smaller with chems because they kill microlife that actually enchances the roots to grow bigger.. Bigger roots - bigger plants - bigger yields

Thats my impression.

 

[Sparky14]

I did not research this with zeal, but a cursory tapping at Bing revealed this, and I think there is more out there on Miracle Grow (Osmecote, etc) being full of bad stuff. This quote is from the Sierra club, and I also will post a link to the article.

I am almost fifty, been smoking since 1974, and since I intend to smoke and vape for ANOTHER 35 years, I ponder cumulative effects. Since the radiation in cigarettes are one of the big causes of lung cancer, (chemical ferts again), I just raise the question. Silverback, I respect you too much to rebut your methods, and I agree, growing this plant is serious work either way!

"The impurities in phosphogypsum which cause the primary concern are radioactive materials. Uranium occurs naturally along with phosphate rock in Florida. Radioactive decay transforms uranium into other elements such as radium, polonium and lead. As a result, all of these radioactive materials are found in phosphogypsum."

http://www.grist.org/article/index/miracle-grow/flat

 

[mahuta]

high - prince of persia, I'm not saying the root mass is smaller in a chem fert system. all i was thinking of is that in a potential root bind situation - say a 5g bucket. that a plant in a chem system properly fed will out perform a organic one. just done a bit of web browsing through a few scientific articles, and read that .... chemical fertilizers at a recommended rate has proved to be not harmfull to overall microbial activity in soil.and that decreased soil productivity attributed to monoculture cash crops applying intensive use of chemical fertilizers more likely results directly from increased erosion,reduced plant cover and greater export of nutrients in the harvested crop.
now i don't know if silverbacks rate of chem fert application is a "recommended rate" or not, but it works. the only way to give a true answer is a side by side test.
i know that on the farm - grass is our crop and is grazed by cows. grass grows - cows eat it - then shit it. creating more topsoil and therefore more habitat for the soil microbes to thrive in. as they rely on decomposition to thrive. all the studies have shown that the more fert applied (at a recommended rate of course!)then this process of grass growing to microbes decomposing will increase at a much faster rate - everyones happy

 

[fisher15]

Jiu jitsu, you may feel it's 'the truth', but a lot of people are ok with spending a little to ensure the highest quality finished product. There are some pretty high standards right now in CA. Guanos may seem a little spendy but a little goes a long way. But you don't even have to spend much to feed organically- teas made with many common plants can work as well or better than many bottled ferts. Again, read the stickys in organic soil for more.

In the end, ogan/chem is a personal choice. I can grow 4+ pounders, and maybe they could've been a little bigger using chems, but unless you're doing like 5000 what does it matter?

 

[Grandma Gudenhi]

I can see how crops, as a whole may have seen increased yields with chemmys. But if it's yields of mj you're talking, I just don't see it necessary to get huge plants. If you've seen my thread I've got a bunch of giants, some 6x6 already and growing inches daily. No chems come near my plants, in fact most have been fed only water, as I mixed dry ferts into the soil mix. What do you're plants normally yield silverback?

I think that any ferts, organic or chem, will make a difference. Whether given during growing, or supplementing the soil before planting. Difference is, organics will taste much nicer and isn't chemical.
I've been growing outdoor, organic for many years. My plants have yielded over five pounds and most are around three pounds.

 

[johnyhash]

I cant agree with silverbacks oppinion of chem ferts needed to get the biggest harvest. Everyone should check out john evans growing with compost tea on youtube, this guy has world records for giant vegetables. Organics do release slower but if you release millions of micro organisms into the earth they will break down into usable forms for the plant a lot faster.

 

[fisher15]

Exactly, grandma. Who's bitchin over a three or five pounder?

 

[PrinceOfPersia]

High mahuta. Sorry i misunderstood you, my bad!.
So chems wont kill microbes as long as its dosed right? hmm, in my short career as a grower ive always had the belief that chems kill microbes. Im pretty sure when i was more into this i read some artickles about that...

Im convinced that organic tea's are the way to go.

More and more commercial farmers are getting into it also, people are starting to realise how freaking awesome it can be!!

 

[antimatter]

Couldn't this be said about all the food that we buy at the supermarkets thats is not organic?? If you wanna smoke vs edibles/vaping then your already harming yourself, whats a little residual fertilizer in the smoke gonna do that eating chemically grown fruits and veggies and wheat/corn etc. not going to do???

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Don't miss this period for fertilization!!! 2 plants side by side. 1, six foot tall plant is in fine organic soil but gets no ferts. The other is in average soil but has a farmer with an active watering can. The organic plant will yield
7oz's, the chemically fertilized plant will produce a lb. Everytime.

so your logic is that if i don't use miracle grow then i won't yield a pound with the same organics nutrients. you are wrong. this thread is bogus. of course you won't yield as much if you don't use any nutrients at all. if you use organics nutrients the same way as a chemical nutrients. you will have the same, if not better results. no matter what soil you have, you are going to need flowering nutrients. even if you don't use any throughout the vegetative stage.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

oh yeah, and my organic advanced nutrients. as expensive as they may be. yes, you do pay for quality in life, will outperform miracle grow any day.

 

[pokerman2006200]

sup silver back....what kind of nutrients do u think i should use to get yeild?

 

[Grandma Gudenhi]

Couldn't this be said about all the food that we buy at the supermarkets thats is not organic?? If you wanna smoke vs edibles/vaping then your already harming yourself, whats a little residual fertilizer in the smoke gonna do that eating chemically grown fruits and veggies and wheat/corn etc. not going to do???

Nothing beats the taste of outdoor, organic. I can tell if something still has chems in it. It sometimes even makes the tip of my tongue numb.
Many years ago, when I still used Miracle Grow, I didn't know the difference. Then I smoked some of my stuff with an long time organic grower. We hadn't even discussed my pot or how it was grown. He took one hit and asked if I used MG. I haven't used it since.
If you want big yield, give them plenty of room to grow.

 

[B.C.]

High SB, fantastic point about the heavy feeding. I don't think a lot of folks realize jus how much more a plant will feed when they start flowering. People need to keep in mind a plant will suddenly start using almost twice as much water as it did before too, so it can transpire the water out and bring those nutes up into the plant. Everything speeds up in this cycle! it will go that way till flowering is about over, and then it slows way down, as quickly as it started. You really notice this growing indoors when you hand water. Anyway, take advantage this cycle!

I don't know about that MG thang though. Food for thought. Pot is an efficient phyto-exstactor, so if there's anything harmful in what you feed it, ( or the soil ) it will be collected in the cells of the plant. No matter how much you flush it, yer -still- smokin it. That said, MG is full of crap that would fit the bill. Yuck!

Have you ever tried Plant-Tone before? they sell it at Lowes, Home Depot, etc... it's only 8-9 bucks fer a 10 pound bag! it's an -excellent- well balanced dry veg fert, the NPK is 5-3-3 ( not that NPK means anything in organics ). Also, it's alil more exspensive but Fox Farms dry ferts for flower work very well too. Then ya got Age Old Organics liquids if ya don't wanna use dry. You could add a lil Maxicrop kelp in there and have a kick ass well balanced fert. Then there's Mother Earth Super Tea and Budswell. All of these are very cheap, but are full of good organic things that plants thrive on. I could go on all day, point is there are many organic alternatives to MG that work just as well.

Anyhoo, jus thought Id throw it out there. Take care... BC

 

[little j]

juat to add my thoughts. i planted my veggie garden (tomatoes) 1 week before my friend. i was at their house last week and saw her tomatoe plants and they were huge and bushy compared to mine. i asked what they did. they found some tomatoe spikes at walmart and used them. their plants look amazing and mine look terrible. i went to the store but they didnt have the same product but i found these huge spikes they sell for trees. they are the size of railroad spikes. for evergreen trees, fruit trees and regular trees. the fruit tree spikes were listed as hight nitro. at a $ a piece i bought a couple and broke them with a hammer. i put a nice sized chunk under some freshly planted mj plants i put out. we will see if they do much better.
i also always fert heavy doses at every watering. i never had a problem but last year i lost a couple to nute burn. first time ever. very strange. i had a huge skunk that died but next to it some sweet purple lived. different spot the skunk was fine but another strain died. never had the problem before. i like miracle grow during veg.
thanks, little j.
check smokin little j's outside 2008 to see what i mean.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

have ever used an organic fertilizer? seabird guano is 12-12-12. double the dose and you have almost the same amount miracle grow is giving. only thing is....there are a lot more micro nutrients. ever heard of liquid karma? do some research and when you grow 8 feet plants and only need to fertilize ever 3-4 weeks. maybe you will find the goodness in organic nutrients. don't knock it until you try it.

 

[BELOW FRIGID]

Hmmm? I never have used MG on MJ so I can't really say one out performs the other if both are used to their maximum potencial. I put in my dry organic( Rainbow mix grow by earth juice)a moth before I put anything in the holes. I also supplement with a Earth Juice Grow, Bloom, Micro Blast, Meta K, Catalyst, cocktail. Every few weeks this time of year. The end of July I add some Rainbow mix grow for flowering so it's there and ready when they need it in a couple of weeks as well as a Earth juice cocktail without the N until about 3 weeks from harvest. It works for me. I guess it's grower prefference. Definitely more work with the organics to get good results. I don't smoke much but my peeps seem to love it. Unless you have done a side by side which I would guess SB has done knowing him your blowing smoke if you are saying organics will out yield chems. For most organic growers it's not about yield! Just my two cents. Peace

 

[antimatter]

Nothing beats the taste of outdoor, organic. I can tell if something still has chems in it. It sometimes even makes the tip of my tongue numb.
Many years ago, when I still used Miracle Grow, I didn't know the difference. Then I smoked some of my stuff with an long time organic grower. We hadn't even discussed my pot or how it was grown. He took one hit and asked if I used MG. I haven't used it since.
If you want big yield, give them plenty of room to grow.

I like organics but for what I do its more trouble then its worth and it doesn't matter how it smokes just how it looks, I try and time the time release chems to run out near the end to try and get some of the nitrogen out, sometimes it doesn't happen but that is just how it is. Organics on the other hand do not flush out the nitrogen/chlorophyll perfectly unless the soil runs out I assume but I see what you guys are saying about harmful chemicals, Id personally like to see some studies done on organic vs chemical pot and long term health effects.