~Kief Junkie & QueenKief's 250w Organic Medi-Cab (soil) Grow!~ ~Pure & Blue Mystic~

[K.J]

haha KJ take a bong rip everything is going to be ok its alright that there not popping just yet some seeds are just harder than others for the hot mat problem you got going on

get a towel and place it on the mat assuming its a rather thick towel have two layers between the pad and the seeds then take another layer and place it over the seeds i kinda thought about it and felt bad that i didn't tell you to do this before i was thinking about my mat which actually sucks for heating but in this situation it works or nice because the heat isn't very intense im assuming yours isn't a piece of shit like mine so give that a try and i know you don't want to hear it but maybe you guys got some old or bad stock unfortunately it happens you know but lets not think negative just yet give them another 48 hours and let see what happens

Ok...*bubble...bubble...bubble* ahhhh!

I'll do the towel thing with it and give it some more time. I'm confused because our method worked for 3 of our beans, but it failed for (so far) 5 others, two different strains from different breeders. So which is it? The method, or the stock? I guess we'll have to keep on testing and see where we end up!

 

[Suby]

KJ how are things, I read quickly through your thread, usually I don't give advice in these kinds of threads unless I'm invited to, some peeps take it the wrong way.
I don't know if everything I list here is relevant to you, if something works for you keep doing it unless there is a problem.
You don't need a humidity dome for seedlings ever unless you relative humidity is under 40%.
Fluoros are best for seedlings because you can get them very close without burning, seedlings often stretch under HID's because finding the sweet spot without burning is very hard.
Get a fan blowing on them gently, this will discourage stretching and strengthen the stem.
Be carefull with rockwool, I like it myself but remember that it contains NO nutrient which is why I use a mix of 50% perlite, 30% Promix and 20% worm castings, you can't burn with EWC ever and you can get them alot further before having to transplant into a richer soil like LC's mix.
Germing seeds can take as long as 2 weeks, I always use paper towel in ziplock method and leave it on top of the fridge, low temps will ensure failure with older stubborn seeds.
So far they look good, if the soil mix is too hot you'll see them stall so watch for that, so far they look OK.
Also when roots pop out the bottom of the RW move them right away, if they sit in water they can get root rot which is VERY bad and will stay with the plant to the very end.
Fresh beans sprout fast, expensive seeds usually sit around longer than cheap ones .

I'm being sporatic and all this reflects my own method, I'm not saying your doing anything wrong, there are many ways to grow as there are peeps growing.

Yell for help whenever, just remember not to over mother them and to relax, growing requires one major skill....patience.

Peace

 

[White]

Hi K.J.

I was gonna say this sooner, and since Suby mentioned it already, I thought what the hell.

I know you really love your plants, but don't smother them. You seem to be on the right track now with paper towel germination, so the method is fine. Just relax and let nature take its course. I'm rooting for ya, best of luck.

Peace,
White

 

[K.J]

KJ how are things, I read quickly through your thread, usually I don't give advice in these kinds of threads unless I'm invited to, some peeps take it the wrong way.

First, I want to say that you're the man for hauling yourself all the way over here from that other thread you were chatting with me in. I really appreciate you taking the time to read through our journal and offer up some of your advice. So yeah, NO advice from you (or anyone else) will be taken the wrong way. We're here to learn and become better gardeners!

I don't know if everything I list here is relevant to you, if something works for you keep doing it unless there is a problem.

Cool, I'll respond one at a time.

You don't need a humidity dome for seedlings ever unless you relative humidity is under 40%.

We live in a VERY dry place. The reading on our thermometer/hygrometer has been stuck fast at 20% since we powered it up. It never fluctuates.

Fluoros are best for seedlings because you can get them very close without burning, seedlings often stretch under HID's because finding the sweet spot without burning is very hard.

Yes, we have them under a 125w CFL right now. The 250w HPS we have is for flowering.

Get a fan blowing on them gently, this will discourage stretching and strengthen the stem.

Right now I just sit and blow softly on them whenever I check up on them. But, we DO have a fan coming our way (it should be here today), so we hope to have something less, erm, ghetto soon.

Be carefull with rockwool, I like it myself but remember that it contains NO nutrient which is why I use a mix of 50% perlite, 30% Promix and 20% worm castings, you can't burn with EWC ever and you can get them alot further before having to transplant into a richer soil like LC's mix.

Couldn't we have moved them right into the LC mix without the dry ferts? I understand that that's what we should have done, but the soil is already mixed with the dry ferts, so it's a bit too late for that.

Germing seeds can take as long as 2 weeks, I always use paper towel in ziplock method and leave it on top of the fridge, low temps will ensure failure with older stubborn seeds.

Wow, really? Two weeks? Wouldn't they drown in the damp paper towel if they were in there 2 weeks straight? So it might be our high temps that are slowing it down? If so, hopefully we remedied that last night when we cleaned the humidty dome/tray and placed it on top of the heating mat, then we put the Ziploc bag with the Spice beans inside of the dome so that they wouldn't be directly on the heating mat.

So far they look good, if the soil mix is too hot you'll see them stall so watch for that, so far they look OK.

Excellent. So no re-potting because of the hot soil mix? To bring the rest of you up to date, the soil mix we made is too hot for seedlings under 3 weeks old that aren't well rooted. We were supposed to mix the first part together and use it to germinate seedlings in, and THEN add the dry ferts (blood/bone meals and kelp). The second mix is for plants that are well rooted and is good for every stage from that point on. Once you have this mix ready to go, the only thing you need to water with is a little molasses and maybe some LK and EWC's thrown in the tea. But the guano's? We don't need them if we're using this soil mix. The instructions were to use EITHER the dry ferts in the soil, or use the compost teas, not BOTH. Doh!

Also when roots pop out the bottom of the RW move them right away, if they sit in water they can get root rot which is VERY bad and will stay with the plant to the very end.

So we were right to pot them as soon as even the smallest root showed on the outside of the cubes? I thought there was supposed to be more, but I didn't want the single root that was showing to shrivel up and die so we didn't take any chances.

I'm being sporatic and all this reflects my own method, I'm not saying your doing anything wrong, there are many ways to grow as there are peeps growing.

Yell for help whenever, just remember not to over mother them and to relax, growing requires one major skill....patience.

Peace

You're the man. Thank you so much for stopping by with your words of wisdom. We hope you come by and visit from time to time!

 

[K.J]

I was gonna say this sooner, and since Suby mentioned it already, I thought what the hell.

I know you really love your plants, but don't smother them. You seem to be on the right track now with paper towel germination, so the method is fine. Just relax and let nature take its course. I'm rooting for ya, best of luck.

Yeah, I've heard that so often "don't kill them with kindness!". I think we're doing okay walking that fine line between love and, well, obsession. Thanks for the kind words of encouragement, we're taking it all in, so please keep coming back!

 

[j.guit.err]

FYI...I've forgotten about a seed in a paper towel in the ziplock bag and when i went back to look at it, it's tap root was about 8" long and the stem had grown about 6".

 

[K.J]

FYI...I've forgotten about a seed in a paper towel in the ziplock bag and when i went back to look at it, it's tap root was about 8" long and the stem had grown about 6".

Wow, the mildew, heat and no oxygen didn't kill it off? Impressive (or maybe it's normal and I'm just a moron).

 

[j.guit.err]

I should clarify...they looked dead, but it was just crazy how much it grew in the 2 weeks or so that I forgot about it. All I'm saying is that it will keep living in there for some time searching for light and moisture.

 

[K.J]

I should clarify...they looked dead, but it was just crazy how much it grew in the 2 weeks or so that I forgot about it. All I'm saying is that it will keep living in there for some time searching for light and moisture.

That's good to know. I guess I had always thought they were more fragile than I'm hearing lately with the germ problems we've been having.

 

[Guest]

Hey KJ, moving the airflow discussion from banjo's thread to here.

Unlike how Freezer exaggerated it to sound, you could add more ventilation progressively in the course of a few hours until you get temps to where you desire, if needed. You may be fine already, but if not, no need messing up your lovely work thus far. Given that I have no experience with growboxes but some with physics, I think it's likely you can succeed without hitting 2:1, though your airflow may be somewhat more impeded and will "whoosh" though at a higher rate, making a bit more noise.

About the louvers you asked about:

We have thought about using dark room vents, but the problem with those is that they're much more difficult to filter than 2" PVC pipes are. Do you know of any easy solution to add filter material to these kinds of vents?

The ones I have are composed of five different "layers" with alternating patterns that, when lined up, block light. It's possible (and suggested in the manual) that one or more of these layers can be removed if the threat of incoming light is lessened.

This also means that you can unscrew the outer layer, stick a sheet of filter fabric in, and screw it back on .

Now, I don't know how bad this will make the airflow; I may end up buying more of them, but it seems like it will work. I'm also considering just buying longer screws so I can bolt down some filtering cloth on the outside, or rubber-banding it around the outside of the vent, depending on how often I need to change it.

If you look at my thread, they're mounted in the cab, but I don't have my ventilation hooked up yet, so I can't vouch for them right now. They just seemed like an easy route for a newbie to go.

 

[K.J]

Hey KJ, moving the airflow discussion from banjo's thread to here.

Unlike how Freezer exaggerated it to sound, you could add more ventilation progressively in the course of a few hours until you get temps to where you desire, if needed. You may be fine already, but if not, no need messing up your lovely work thus far. Given that I have no experience with growboxes but some with physics, I think it's likely you can succeed without hitting 2:1, though your airflow may be somewhat more impeded and will "whoosh" though at a higher rate, making a bit more noise.

Thanks for your support and input. I got thinking about it more and recalled that we will be housing this cab in a basement that stays around 65 degrees all the time, fairly chilly compared to the rest of the house. You can feel it getting cooler as you descend each step. So we will likely have more of a problem keeping it warm enough inside the cab, considering that we have an air cooled hood and a fairly powerful fan.

So yeah, I think we'll consider it some more and maybe add a few intakes if we find it necessary. Although we can do this once it's assembled, it sure would be easier to do it now, so we don't want to get too far before making sure we're doing the right thing with the ventilation (arguably one of the key aspects of successful cab gardening).

About the louvers you asked about:

The ones I have are composed of five different "layers" with alternating patterns that, when lined up, block light. It's possible (and suggested in the manual) that one or more of these layers can be removed if the threat of incoming light is lessened.

This also means that you can unscrew the outer layer, stick a sheet of filter fabric in, and screw it back on .

Now, I don't know how bad this will make the airflow; I may end up buying more of them, but it seems like it will work. I'm also considering just buying longer screws so I can bolt down some filtering cloth on the outside, or rubber-banding it around the outside of the vent, depending on how often I need to change it.

If you look at my thread, they're mounted in the cab, but I don't have my ventilation hooked up yet, so I can't vouch for them right now. They just seemed like an easy route for a newbie to go.

I've studied these vents myself and we nearly decided to go with them. Like I said, the only thing holding me back is the fact that they look difficult to filter. If there were a simple way to filter them then we would definitely consider using them in a future cab (or this one, modified).

Let us know what you come up with for filtering; we're very interested in your solution. I'm subscribed to your journal, so I'm sure I'll see more about them there!

 

[Suby]

We live in a VERY dry place. The reading on our thermometer/hygrometer has been stuck fast at 20% since we powered it up. It never fluctuates.


Then dome them, you`ll probably need a humidifier at some point, low RH can lead to stretchy plants and nutrient uptake problems, although having more plants in bigger pots in there will increase room RH.


Right now I just sit and blow softly on them whenever I check up on them. But, we DO have a fan coming our way (it should be here today), so we hope to have something less, erm, ghetto soon.

PC fans are a great, cheap, and effective way to move air.


Couldn't we have moved them right into the LC mix without the dry ferts? I understand that that's what we should have done, but the soil is already mixed with the dry ferts, so it's a bit too late for that.

Use the mix i posted, LC is a personal friend of mine and he`d say it was fine, the EWC helps them alot especially if humidity is low.


Wow, really? Two weeks? Wouldn't they drown in the damp paper towel if they were in there 2 weeks straight? So it might be our high temps that are slowing it down? If so, hopefully we remedied that last night when we cleaned the humidty dome/tray and placed it on top of the heating mat, then we put the Ziploc bag with the Spice beans inside of the dome so that they wouldn't be directly on the heating mat.

You need to check them everyday, and when I say moist I don`t mean wet, I mean damp like it was rung out to shit.
Use a cloth type towel sold by the roll, they are tougher and will not degrade over time like paper towels, I wet them with a spray bottle to keep them moist.
If they don`t sprout then they are garbage, ordered seeds are like that, you don`t know how long they`ve sat around or under what conditions.


Excellent. So no re-potting because of the hot soil mix? To bring the rest of you up to date, the soil mix we made is too hot for seedlings under 3 weeks old that aren't well rooted. We were supposed to mix the first part together and use it to germinate seedlings in, and THEN add the dry ferts (blood/bone meals and kelp). The second mix is for plants that are well rooted and is good for every stage from that point on. Once you have this mix ready to go, the only thing you need to water with is a little molasses and maybe some LK and EWC's thrown in the tea. But the guano's? We don't need them if we're using this soil mix. The instructions were to use EITHER the dry ferts in the soil, or use the compost teas, not BOTH. Doh!


If you followed LC`s mix to the T then my guess they`ll get toasty, some of the leaves in the pic show some patchiness in color, keep an eye on the leaf tips, if they yellow get transplanting.


So we were right to pot them as soon as even the smallest root showed on the outside of the cubes? I thought there was supposed to be more, but I didn't want the single root that was showing to shrivel up and die so we didn't take any chances.

You want exposed roots if you transplanting to a hydro setup, in hydro the nutrient mist has to contact the roots.
In soil you want they to tap into the soil, that`s why I would ditch the RW and put sprouted seeds into the mix I posted, some growers use 50% perlite with 40% Promix with 10% casting but you have low RH so mine will work better IMO.


You're the man. Thank you so much for stopping by with your words of wisdom. We hope you come by and visit from time to time![/QUOTE]


I love growing but I enjoy teaching just as much, you learn alot by teaching some say

You`ll do fine I`m sure, can`t wait to see the cab, I`m building one this weekend.

Sub`s

 

[K.J]

Then dome them, you`ll probably need a humidifier at some point, low RH can lead to stretchy plants and nutrient uptake problems, although having more plants in bigger pots in there will increase room RH.

I'm sure our RH will go up once they're enclosed in a cab. If not, we'll look into ways to increase it. What's ideal? 50% or so?

Use the mix i posted, LC is a personal friend of mine and he`d say it was fine, the EWC helps them alot especially if humidity is low.

But if I like the LC mix, I'm good to use that on seedlings less than 3 weeks old as long as I don't add the dry ferts to it? And once I add dry ferts, then it's good to use on anything well rooted, and up to harvest?

You need to check them everyday, and when I say moist I don`t mean wet, I mean damp like it was rung out to shit.
Use a cloth type towel sold by the roll, they are tougher and will not degrade over time like paper towels, I wet them with a spray bottle to keep them moist.
If they don`t sprout then they are garbage, ordered seeds are like that, you don`t know how long they`ve sat around or under what conditions.

Ok, thanks for the advice. So should I even put them in a Ziploc? Doesn't that just increase the chances of killing it with moisture and lack of oxygen? Just put it on a plate and put the plate in the seedling tray?

If you followed LC`s mix to the T then my guess they`ll get toasty, some of the leaves in the pic show some patchiness in color, keep an eye on the leaf tips, if they yellow get transplanting.

Yes, we followed it as close as possible (we were able to source all materials). So what would I transplant into if the tips yellow? I'm VERY confused. When can I use the LC mix with the dry ferts?

You want exposed roots if you transplanting to a hydro setup, in hydro the nutrient mist has to contact the roots.
In soil you want they to tap into the soil, that`s why I would ditch the RW and put sprouted seeds into the mix I posted, some growers use 50% perlite with 40% Promix with 10% casting but you have low RH so mine will work better IMO.

Gotcha. I would love to ditch the RW and sow directly into soil after the bean has popped.

You`ll do fine I`m sure, can`t wait to see the cab, I`m building one this weekend.

Awesome, thanks for everything. Are you posting up a thread about your cab? I'd love to see it.

 

[K.J]

Just a short update on the cab. We finished the last of the second coat of primer on the panels. Now we need to prep them for painting (basically, sand the drips, rough/high spots, etc.). And then we'll paint what will be the insides of the cab. We'll wait to paint the outsides until we get it all assembled. So if all goes well, we'll be installing the PVC and assembling at least the shell of the cab this weekend.

The Pure ladies are still doing well, growing every day. I'll get new pics up soon so you all can see how much they've changed. We're still watching them for serious burning from our (potentially) too-hot soil mix, but so far so good.

No news on the Spice beans. The one in soil hasn't come up, and the other two still haven't cracked at all. *sigh*

 

[Suby]

50% RH is perfect for all stages IMO.
LC's mic minus the ferts is perfect for clones and seedlings.
The Ziplock is a good idea, it will keep it from drying completely which would kill them for sure once they sprouted.
Say you put you seedlings in a small yogourt cup (~1cup of soil) once they have rooted about that then your good to transplant into LC's ferted mix.

As for my cab I have a busy schedule so I post my results after everything is built, I usually tag my projects in my sig so you'll know, in about a week or so if I don't procrastinate too badly.

 

[K.J]

50% RH is perfect for all stages IMO.

Then we may just need a humidity source in the future.

LC's mic minus the ferts is perfect for clones and seedlings.

Perfect.

The Ziplock is a good idea, it will keep it from drying completely which would kill them for sure once they sprouted.

I can watch them pretty closely, so there's little chance they'll dry out.

Say you put you seedlings in a small yogourt cup (~1cup of soil) once they have rooted about that then your good to transplant into LC's ferted mix.

Thanks for clearing it up.

As for my cab I have a busy schedule so I post my results after everything is built, I usually tag my projects in my sig so you'll know, in about a week or so if I don't procrastinate too badly.

Very nice, I look forward to seeing it.

 

[K.J]

The comedy keeps coming. Yesterday as I was attempting to move the Spice beans from the paper towel they'd been in to a fresh one, I managed to drop one of them and I could not find it anywhere after looking for a good 15 minutes. My wife came home later and she couldn't find it either.

And then once I got the single remaining bean in a new paper towel, I decided to put it on a plate, place the plate into the seedling dome, which is on top of the heat mat. Well, what do you know, a few hours later and the paper towel was dry as a bone. Stuck my foot deep down my throat in an earlier post didn't I!?

We weren't sure what to do. Just run the 3 Pure's we have now and forget germing for a while? Run a new strain? Try running 3 more Pure's? After talking it over, we decided that we'd try something new and we selected 3 plump, healthy looking Blue Mystic beans and put them in a cup of water inside of the dome. Please send your good vibes our way!

Ugh, why is this so difficult? I wish we knew which element was failing; the beans, the environment, the method, whatever. At least then we'd know where to improve our system.

The only downside to doing the BM's is that they can take longer to finish than the Pure's do. Depending on the pheno, they can also be more sativa in structure, which might be a problem as they get taller. Nonetheless, we're excited about doing this strain!

One bit of good news: we received the fan we ordered for the flower room. It's a little bigger than I thought it would be, but it'll work nicely since we can mount it on the walls. It also doesn't truly oscillate, which saves space (it has a rotating disc on the face of the fan that simulates oscillation, to good effect). As soon as it was lights on, I rigged it up to blow a nice breeze across the Pure ladies. This also meant that the light could be lowered, so I brought it down to within about 4-5" of the tallest lady (Peanut). I think they're loving it, as Petunia went into a little growth spurt over the next few hours.

 

[organicmunk]

KJ i know it can be frustrating believe me i just killed 10 seedlings because of a modification to my mix but thats the price you pay sometimes its not the method i promise you that since the last time i have talked to you i have germed and sprouted 15 new seedlings their 2 days old today lets see how the BM do but i think it might just be the stock that the spice came from you know it might just be bad beans i would try germing the rest of them all at once see what happens if none pop i would contact the breeder or whom ever you bought the seeds from they might not help you out but then again they might but i assume then longer you wait from you order placement the less likely you are to possibly get new beans i mean its worth a try right what have you got to lose now

 

[K.J]

KJ i know it can be frustrating believe me i just killed 10 seedlings because of a modification to my mix but thats the price you pay sometimes its not the method i promise you that since the last time i have talked to you i have germed and sprouted 15 new seedlings their 2 days old today lets see how the BM do but i think it might just be the stock that the spice came from you know it might just be bad beans i would try germing the rest of them all at once see what happens if none pop i would contact the breeder or whom ever you bought the seeds from they might not help you out but then again they might but i assume then longer you wait from you order placement the less likely you are to possibly get new beans i mean its worth a try right what have you got to lose now

Seriously? You've germed that many? Damn. How'd it be!?

I would think it's the stock too, except for the fact that 3 of our BubbleDust beans also didn't germ (but that was prior to changing our method to the paper towel method). All of the beans I currently have came from the Boutique, all on the same order. So I'm rather confused at the spottiness of our germ success. I guess we'll see what happens with these Blue Mystic beans. You can bet I'll be in touch with SB and/or the breeders if I continue to have such issues.

 

[j.guit.err]

Yo KJ, I can't wait to see the cab put together. I guarantee you it's got to be the seed stock man, I never have trouble with the paper towel and ziplock bag method. Some seeds refuse to sprout, but it just sounds like you got unlucky bro.