Why has no-one feminised the REAL Cheese???

[englishrick]

honney bee extraction = upvc pipe with a coffie filter at one end and a whole to put the butane lighter fluid in at the other.....watch out they get cold and can crack or you could freeze your hand ....lol..

iso is safer!!

i become a zombie when i do iso.....some people wont smoke it!!..they say its like smack!!.ive not got it to taste more than a little hashy yet....seems to get better with age!!..30 secs keep it lookin like the amber from jurasic park!!...still it has all the power but it lacks taste with some weeds!!

pure non polar solvents like expencive butane used with a honney bee extractor type system are the best for taste!!

 

[englishrick]

just dont do butane inside with a spliff in your mouth an your ok!!....i did iso with a spliff by acident once...my girl friend took it out because i had my hands full trying to drain it quick....lol.....

iso is evil...it makes weed look to serious!!...you cant even touch it without using fairy power spray after!!...lol

fairy power spray is a dream on pyrex and iso oil...it loves the jobs you hate!!

 

[DocLeaf]

Oh big surprise, yet again docleaf disagrees with me. TW is a thin-stemmed plant so cloens need to be taken from branches that are mature and have become 'woody' to get good success rates, this is typical of many sativas with thin, weak stems.

I n I already agreed with you on post 300 brethren,, please keep up :wink:

Sweet info. we never played with str8 TW. The batches of thicker clones from Kachina did root easier.. but still displayed low rates.

The stems were very weak, even when crossed with Cheese, which also makes weak stems,, all the side branches fell over at 7 weeks bloom ...lol

Kachina




Spot on!



The schaartjes (scissor hasj) was strong!

peace all

 

[englishrick]

eeek a mouse was something i wanted years ago!!...is it still about??

 

[DocLeaf]

Cool info. Ganja baba

the cheese is about 10 years after sk1 hit the dam , guys allot happens in 10 years , there were 1000s of plants being selected from one green house ,
there could have been stray pollen and all sorts going on , the people working this world back then had no idea they would be watched in the future and bombarded with Qs like we do now , lol i cant remember last week , let a lone 10 years ago ,

The 'Green Team' were all competent gorilla growers

The 'Lowland Seed Company' worked with Sam's genetics and had Old Ed. as their mentor.

http://www.cannabisconnections.nl/olded.html

Wernard is a ganja warrior ,, sure he can remember what grow-on in 1980 !!!

Every plant has its own roots

Peace d Leaf

 

[Guest]

About the only things growing in Holland in 1980 were two old strains of low quality - one purple, the other lemony, until Sam and Old Ed brought genes over, they were mostly smoking hashish, wiet didn't become popular till later. De Onderduikers were handing out cannabis plants in the 60s and 70s, but until Sam arrived and kicked it off, there was little going on in terms of growing. Sam arrived in 1984, Lowland were in business before that, so you're incorrect that they were working with Sam's genetics, they were working with Old Ed's and stuff collected abroad. Sam sold his genes and no-one could afford his price so Eddy Rekedder and Ben Dronkers teamed up to pool their cash. Sam acknowledges that the Dutch had other genes before he arrived, but isn't too kind in his description:

Yes many people like Od Ed had Indica hybrids that turned out to be not maintainable by seeds, they are all gone now, except as part of a hybrid. Big Sur Holyweed did not have Indica blood at least not in the 60's and 70's when I lived very close to Big Sur. It was Sativas. The best was Original Haze lines or hybrids.
While finding seeds in hash pieces is great it is not the best foundation for an IBL. Or did they get numerous seeds of the same variety, both male and female? Without the numbers there is no selection, not a good start.
The bottom line is that sure there were Indica seeds around before me, but mine were dependable year after year, the others were not. I know because I got every Dutch Indica seed varieties sold I could find in the early 80's and grew them all, and most were a waste of my time, to be honest. I am not saying there were no good plants, but the seed lines were not consistant at all, and most plants were crap.

During the sixties in Holland, most of the cannabis consumed was low grade South East Asian grass and Hashish. During the early to mid seventies, a small number of enthusiasts grew out many of the seeds they had collected throughout the years, plus the already long established Purple and Green Lemon types (these were used as tobacco substitutes during the second world war ) Right about that time, a number of Afghani seeds also made it to Holland. The Dutch met with limited success breeding with these varieties, however, the consumers were not interested in this ‘Nederwiet', still preferring their imported Hashish.

In the early eighties these strains and many others such as Early California, Thai, Columbian, South Indian, Early Girl, Hawaiian Indica, Californian Orange and South African landrace genetics were brought to Holland by Sam the Skunkman, one of the founders of Sacred Seeds. Three major players of that time, with an interest in finding superior plants started to grow out the Skunkman's seeds: Eddie, who worked together with the Skunkman for many years, setting up a succesfull seed wholesale business in the early eighties. Eddie now runs the Flying Dutchmen Seed Company and the Cannabis College, Ben Dronkers of Sensi Seeds and the infamous Neville, the previous owner of the Cannabis Castle, who was also experimenting with his own genetics at the time. The base genetics for almost all of the strains that are found in Holland today originated from the Skunkman's introductions and the subsequent breeding work achieved by these pioneers.

Neville was also responsible for introducing a lot of genes, but he isn't around to tell is what he did exactly, and the last time a discussion got going about just what Sam brough to the scene and what Neville brought, it got messy.

I never worked on any variety with Neville, he sold my varieties, then used them to make his own. I never even grew his varieties, except for one or two, I was busy with my own.

Mazar was not collected by me, Neville bought the seeds in Pakistan from Afghani or Pakistani smugglers. It was a flop, he dropped it after a few years. It was Neville's first attempt to create his own variety from scratch, after that he stuck to retooling others breeders work, or making simple hybrids of other breeders work, and calling the new hybrid his own.
-SamS

These old catalogues of Sam's show you what he was selling back in the very early days in Holland:

Note on the front of the catalogue where is says 'Cultivation Consultation Available' Hmm, so back in 85 you could have got help setting up from the Skunkman himself eh? I bet a LOT of people got started with Sam's help.

Sam really did start off the modern genetics, so much is based on his original germplasm collection:

If I had a dollar for every Skunk #1, or hybrid that has been copied and sold I could buy the USA elections and have plenty of change to do something good for the world.
I did not receive anything from any breeders for them copying my work or using it to make their own hybrids. They even steal my varieties names. That's the way it is.
Maybe it is my own fault for making true breeding varieties instead of hybrids? I though it was the right thing to do...
I am glad they are filling the world with seeds, I wish some "breeders" would spend more time and resources collecting genetics from traditional Cannabis areas to add to the Drug Cannabis Gene Pool, and using these to make IBL's or hybrids that were not just a reshuffle of varieties & genes around for 25 years. I wish the price of seeds was not so high.
But all in all I am happy, busy counting my Billions, and working on my next idea to free the worlds smokin' masses.

-SamS

 

[DocLeaf]

Cool info.

Sam sold his genes and no-one could afford his price so Eddy Rekedder and Ben Dronkers teamed up to pool their cash. Sam acknowledges that the Dutch had other genes before he arrived, but isn't too kind in his description:

Sam gave (swapped) seeds from himself and other Cali. collectives to Wernard (Lowland), Eddy (later Flying Dutchmen), et al., to test grow / compare against their own sativa strains. They called him "Miracle Sam"... (because he was promising miracles)! A year later (1985) Positronics was made.

We can't seem to find the green avalanche downloads which document someof the history (removed)

Anyhow, homegrowers can still gain cultivation tips and genetic info. from Sam the Skunkman here on icmag, today Don't think there's a hash-producing country that Sam hasn't travelled across,, his knowledgeable on the subject of hashish just like Skunk and Hindu Kush / Aghan genetics is often unquestionable jah bless Also Wernard is contactable via email, anytime!

Peace out

 

[DocLeaf]

eeek a mouse was something i wanted years ago!!...is it still about??

the s1 kachina (aka eekamouse) were sent to ICMag members and the LGA back then... there were perhaps 100 packs in total... most of which went over the pond rick :friends:



... growers are still enjoying the female offspring today

 

[Guest]

Well, maybe Sam can set it straight, but it's been written many times that Sam was asking a lot of money for his genes and no-one could come up with the cash so he gave Eddie Reekeder and others test seeds to grow out so they could see what they were buying. I can't recall what happened exactly after that. I used to have a document with all the details but can't find it. I've got Wernard's book, but a friend has it at the moment. I think Sam said he was never paid for his seeds, that they simply grew out the testers and decided that was sufficient plant numbers to make selections, although I might be wrong on that point. Sam isn't too keen on setting the history straight at this point, although I have hopes he will eventually write a book:

It was not my post/thread and maybe sometime I will post the truth, if I can get around to write it, but I do not owe you or anyone the truth. But meanwhile if you want to believe any of the two posts that were posted about the Haze Brothers, and or how the Haze reached the rest of the world then you are not believing the truth, you are believing in a made up story, with little to no truth. If you do not think I contributed to this thread by pointing out the errors and lies, then if you would rather I can not post if you would prefer, just put your heads in the sand and believe the lies? How does that help? I knew the Haze Brothers, they were both very close neighbors and friends of my family, I helped them with their work. I knew them before they grew the Original Haze and after they stopped growing the Original Haze. They were my close friends. Maybe someday I will write a book with all the old history, if I ever feel like it? Then you can buy one if you want to. I am pretty busy doing other things right now. And every time I do any post about the Original Haze or the Haze Bros, it gets lifted by others and used to make their made up stories sound real. I am tired of all the lies and bullshit by the authors that do not care about the truth at all.

"Even headman 420 a respected local Amsterdamer / said -"
Quote:
""and that is he truth about how the haze came to holland""

And was headman 420 in Santa Cruz in the early 1970's? Or in Holland in 1984 when I gave Neville the Original Haze? I don't remember him being there. But I was......
-SamS

I could listen for hours, when Eddie Reekeder, founder and owner of the Dutch seed company The Flying Dutchmen, speaks about the early days of the Dutch cannabis boom in the mid 80's, in which he himself played an essential role. Apart from the aforementioned Australian Nevil, founder of the legendary Dutch 'Seed Bank', and Ben Dronkers (Sensi Seeds), Eddie was one of the famous three skunk pioneers who obtained a collection of superb true breeding strains in 1984 from an American guy called 'The Skunk Man'. Amongst them the ground breaking Skunk#1, Early California, Haze, Thai, Mexican, Afghan and South African. "At first, I rejected the skunk man's offer, because he demanded extraordinarily high prices for his seeds, and we in Holland were not used to this. Until then, we had cultivated mainly The Purple and The Green Lemon in Greenhouses, and were fairly proud of these own Dutch creations. However, we did not have the slightest idea of the fact that the potency of our 'Nederwiet' was worlds apart from the super strong US strains", Eddie reports. But 'The Skunk Man' gave Eddie some free Skunk seeds, so that he could convince himself. After having grown the seeds, Eddie was not only convinced, but totally overwhelmed by the results of his first Skunk crop: "It was immediately clear to me that these seeds would radically change the whole Dutch marijuana scene. These huge and extremely resinous Skunk buds were sensational, and their THC content and amazing aroma catapulted us into new dimensions. In addition to that, the plants ripened very early and showed great uniformity."

Then everything happened quickly; the age of extensive marijuana greenhouse cultivation in the Netherlands began. Eddie and others came into contact with discreet tomato farmers who were willing to lease their large greenhouses for marijuana cultivation. "In the beginning, it was of course pretty hard work to convince these kinds of conservative farmers, but finally, money was the crucial factor, and both sides profited from the operation." Although in the 70's, Eddie had run his own flower shop in Amsterdam, and after that was also active in the flower wholesale sector, he did not know very much about plant cultivation before he started growing cannabis. "The first step is always the most difficult", Eddie reports, "for example, we wanted to grow and fertilize fully organically, this was clear and important right from the start. But at that time, there was no literature available in Holland about the use of fish emulsion and similar stuff for cannabis fertilization, so we were not sure about adequate fertilizer dosages. But following the motto 'better more than less', we gave far too many nutrients to the plants, and their leaves were heavily damaged. But mistakes like this you only make once, after that we got things going properly." When it came to area sizes, the motto 'the bigger, the better' proved successful to Eddie. He planted The Skunk Man's seeds, 10,000 per strain, in greenhouses that were up to 20,000 square metres. Eddie then selected the best 50 plants from each crossing. After this the process was repeated again. This repetitive breeding process is essential to stabilise each strain, ensuring uniformity for further development. But soon a problem arose: What to do, if one wants to maintain a certain individual plant over a long period of time? Seed based cultivation cycles come and go, and genetics change more or less with every new generation. Eddie heard of rumours about American growers having successfully produced clones of individual cannabis plants, this made him test the technique for himself: "In the beginning, we had fairly poor survival rates, but after a certain time, we knew how to do the trick. At that time, we were also running commercial marijuana growing operations for some Dutch coffee shops. This field of business did also profit very much from the introduction of clones, since the yields from clone-based growing operations were much higher. Nobody would've believed that this could have been such a pure money-spinner for us! The greenhouse rent together with the high energy and other production costs were enormous, and apart from that, we reinvested a lot into the technical equipment for the facilities. We were just freaks, having only one goal in mind: Growing and harvesting cannabis like hell. We wanted to explore and make use of the full potential of the cannabis plant. For example, it didn't last long until we installed darkening devices in the greenhouse plots, for multiple harvests over the year, black foil that was drawn manually over the plants. But this daily work took such a great effort that we decided to introduce an automatic system which was something other than cheap."

I miss the old Positronics shop, spent many a pleasant afternoon in there and Wernard was always happy to chat about growing, he was the first person I ever saw make hash.

 

[DocLeaf]

We finally agree on something GP Wernard is a really friendly dude

Cannabis College, O.Z.Achterburgwal 124, 1.00pm every Saturday, Wernard's 'High in Holland Tour' ... support the cause

 

[titoon29]

We were just freaks, having only one goal in mind: Growing and harvesting cannabis like hell. We wanted to explore and make use of the full potential of the cannabis plant

That would be my dream !!!!

Thanks for the story ganja pasha, i loved it !

++

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

I miss the old Positronics shop, spent many a pleasant afternoon in there and Wernard was always happy to chat about growing, he was the first person I ever saw make hash.

Yes, Positronics was the best place ever, free weed, advice, clone shop, the free and easy attitude was sadly their undoing. I still owe Peter, Wernards partner for years a massive thankyou for all the time he took to answer my questions and put me on the right path.

 

[DocLeaf]

Freedom is what those good ppl are ALL about ,,

Evert Scholten is also a ganja warrior

Jah bless all that blaze free meds with them...

 

[englishrick]

il go see wernard soon if someone could sort it......is he chillin in amsterdam all the time like soma!!....i love seeing soma when im in town!!....best smoke in town ...fuck the shops...lol

 

[Guest]

Good luck finding Wernard, he doesn't live in Amsterdam anymore, and he's now a politician, try his wite - www.wernard.nl and see if you can get in touch with him.

 

[Chimera]

I should have added earlier in the thread, that cheese selfs were made years ago by a grower going by the name of Visioncreator. He was not impressed at all with the S1 generation, from what I remember.

-Chimera

 

[DocLeaf]

Wenard still gets himself about town

There is a link on his site to his email

http://www.mediwiet.nl/

 

[englishrick]

thanks guys....il try to see if i can chat to him sometime...the people who made this game are people id ilke to know!!..hopefully i can put a twist on this shit one day too!!

i realy wanted to find this guy who was with positronics....i used to buy seeds him from when i managed the smart shop at LacCanna in the newenjdike...i cant remember his name to save my life....i realy got on with him but i didnt respect him then like i do now!!...shame i lost touch!!...what a young plonker i was

 

[englishrick]

tall guy ...long hair....talks with a very chilled tone ..... glasses....flyes micro light or small planes!!

does anyone have a clue who this is???

 

[DocLeaf]

tall guy ...long hair....talks with a very chilled tone ..... glasses....

does anyone have a clue who this is???

Could be one of 1000 people + in Amsterdam ... lol

Finding someone that remembers might be an even bigger task,, hehe

Did you cheesey-cats herm the cheese yet? (I's wanna see more confirmed twisted cuts,, silver or otherwise British Hempire),, so show!

Keep it real Rick... the mighty power of agility is in ya hand,, and ya heart n soul shall be one,, original ,, rasta mon