Original Diesel.

[Crazy Chester]

In your first pic if you had not said that's 2 different plants it's virtually impossible to differentiate them. Are you confident in the authenticity of your cuts?
Can someone explain me how a cut is authentified as the real deal?

I got the AJ's from California Street Cannabis Company in San Francisco - it came from Purple City Genetics.

The Weasel cut I got from an old school grower I trust who got it from "Cloney Soprano" on Strainly - who variously calls it the "1996 cut", "Weasel cut" and "upstate NY cut". More than one person has stated to me that the one from Cloney is "the real deal" and I haven't heard anyone state otherwise.

I was thinking I had mislabeled something - but, then I heard AJ and Weasel had said "same cut".

As far as authentication, that's a really good question. I generally go with a consensus of experienced growers opinions, but this one could probably easily be authenticated by AJ or Weasel, who have the first-hand knowledge about its creation.

Some clones are so old that the person who popped the seed is no longer alive - then I go exclusively on what other experienced growers have said for authentication (more like a belief that it is real based on the best evidence available).

 

[kro-magnon]

Thanks for your explanation, I'm totaly stranger to clone market as I live in a country where it's still illegal to grow so there is ne easy access to this type of plants but as any grower I'm curious about those mythic genetics most of them I've not even smoked.Is it possible to have the DNA profile of elite clones so you can compare your own to real deal ?

 

[Crazy Chester]

Is it possible to have the DNA profile of elite clones so you can compare your own to real deal ?

I'd imagine that it is - if you have a lab, the necessary science background and a clone from the person who popped the seed to use for a base-line comparison.

 

[Hammerhead]

Yes, The originals would need to be sequenced. There are DNA services for cannabis. I've used 1. It's too late now. Most of the old cuts cant be 100% verified anymore. It also helps with people renaming cuts.. This is a huge problem.

 

[kro-magnon]

I thought some had been sequenced on Phylo but since the debacle with them I doubt people trust them to analyse their cuts.

 

[Crazy Chester]

...since the debacle with them I doubt people trust them to analyse their cuts.

I'm one of those people, for sure...

 

[Hammerhead]

I used True breed back in 2017. Ive not done any since... There are others.

 

[kro-magnon]

Thanks Hammerhead that's very interesting, it means there is option to have scientific analysis done with any genetics. Why do you say it's not possible to do with the old cuttings?

 

[Hammerhead]

Today there is no way to know if it's a VERIFIED original clone..To be 100% sure the clone is original it should come from the breeder or as close to that as can be verified. With so many clones getting renamed or just outright name faked no way to verify any of the old school clones. For DNA to be accurate you cant send in what you think is legit as a known good source. There must be a verified source to compare it to. Once they have that known good source people can then send their samples for verification.

EXAMPLE:
Since I sent in my known pure sources for my clones anyone that gets a cut can send in samples to verify it's a legit clone from me.

 

[Crazy Chester]

So, I started searching for that video I was talking about, where, supposedly, AJ and Weasel say the cuts named after them is the same cut - instead, I found the video at this link, in which I think Weasel is speaking (has a Staten Island accent). After describing seeds that he made from crossing Massachusetts Super Skunk x Northern Lights BX2 with a Hawaiian male. He says he gave some to "Joe" of the "up-state crew", that they both grew them out and chose keeper females and that Joe's cut was "a little bit" better than his. So - if the guy speaking is Weasel and the "Joe" he spoke of is AJ ("Asshole Joe"), the AJ's cut and the Weasel cut are indeed different cuts - sisters, in fact.

Funny that Weasel says AJ's cut is better than his and the old school growmie I got Weasel's cut from says the Weasel is slightly better than AJ's.

That makes me think we are talking about very small differences here. I'm probably not even half-way through flowering, so, there's plenty of time for me to discern what the difference is. So far, the only difference I've seen (or smelled), is the pre-flower calyxes on the AJ's are slightly bigger than those on the Weasel, but the regular flower calyxes appear identical.

For the impatient, start at 8:14:

 

[Dawgz_Daze]

Definitely more than 2 Sours.

 

[Happy Times]

Yes
There is the Original Diesel clone and the East Coast Sour Diesel clone

Thanks, I thought they were different

 

[Gerardbutler79]

Original Diesel would never throw any pink/purples ever , straight Dark green and only if flushed extra would go yellow.

Capt krips ECSD cut would throw those same pinks/red/ which was a great way to identify it from other ECSD cuts again which would never throw out pinks/Purples And always either green or yellow.

The Capt krip ECSD cut was an amazing cut and it was a sad day when i lost it.

The Original Diesel clone has a very similar look to the Chem 91 cut

both have that dark waxy green leaves and insane stench and a taste of the Dankest Dank you ever tried.
and the Original Diesel is defo a Daywrecker with unbelievable Indica potency up there with the best Indica dom strains i ever sampled.

So.. in your opinion, the chem91 has an insane stench and the original diesel is on par with it? Not trying to step on toes but that isn’t what I found in the chem91 at all. No stench out of the ordinary. Probably the most overrated plant in existence imo. Good stone to it but again, nothing out the ordinary.

 

[Piff_cat]

original diesel was before sour and is mother of sour. weasel put chem 91 to (mass super skunk x nl) to create original diesel.
i believe the mss x nl was a planned cross since mss is a female clone and so is chem91. im not sure if original diesel itself was a planned breeding. there are quotes also which claim original diesel is just chem91 renamed due to ppl not like contotation of chem in early days of indoor market. but i dont think that is true. there are several different phenos/seed gens/names? under the original diesel umbrella- daywrecker, original diesel, weasel disesel.
since there is no hawaiian in the line until diesel is seeded by dNL a hawaiian skunk type cross creating original sour diesel clone upstate sour/albany,

the female original diesel clone has wonderful stanky but pure gas on gas without the lemon/sweet. referred to many as their "dessert island" weed the high is bright euphoric and potent shes always happy and praying in flower with alot aromatherapy smells. she is more stable then further chem/bagseed iterations. 5 to 7 bladed leaves are a noticable fan leaf trait. stem/branches are more structured then og while also possesing the drippin runner colas. i would like to know more on the specific phenos like dayywrecker. diesel sentimental for me she was my first clone only cant help but smile around her

 

[Dawgz_Daze]

original diesel was before sour and is mother of sour. weasel put chem 91 to (mass super skunk x nl) to create original diesel.
i believe the mss x nl was a planned cross since mss is a female clone and so is chem91. im not sure if original diesel itself was a planned breeding. there are quotes also which claim original diesel is just chem91 renamed due to ppl not like contotation of chem in early days of indoor market. but i dont think that is true. there are several different phenos/seed gens/names? under the original diesel umbrella- daywrecker, original diesel, weasel disesel.
since there is no hawaiian in the line until diesel is seeded by dNL a hawaiian skunk type cross creating original sour diesel clone upstate sour/albany,

the female original diesel clone has wonderful stanky but pure gas on gas without the lemon/sweet. referred to many as their "dessert island" weed the high is bright euphoric and potent shes always happy and praying in flower with alot aromatherapy smells. she is more stable then further chem/bagseed iterations. 5 to 7 bladed leaves are a noticable fan leaf trait. stem/branches are more structured then og while also possesing the drippin runner colas. i would like to know more on the specific phenos like dayywrecker. diesel sentimental for me she was my first clone only cant help but smile around her

They say that but from what I've found Greg never gave the 91 to anybody on the east coast back then. From what I've found the crews out there had Chemdog bagseed that they called Chemdog. Which is very likely a cross of Chem91 x Super Skunk. The Super Skunk hermed on his Chemdog more than once. He also stopped growing the 91 and was growing nothing but the Chemdog x Super Skunk in the mid 90's when the Diesel and Sour Diesel came about. There is definitely a lot to be skeptical of with the origin stories.
Edit: Greg absolutely gave the Weasel the Chem 91. It happened at a Phish show in 1993. It was a trade. Weasel and Gaby traded Greg the Super Skunk for the Chemdog

 

[Dawgz_Daze]

JJ has said in interviews he didnt know how they got the 91 but they had it. More likely they had a bagseed.

 

[Piff_cat]

this vendor on strainly has the biggest and best verified clone list ive ever seen. like a wiishlist for me when i started growin. all of the best bud available was clone only obviously and finding somewhere to buy clones was a longshot pipe dream in the early 2000s. my boy was bringing back jars of from ny especially after the big haze guys went down.

rezs cut he used for his lines i think is a slightly different pheno still considered best too .seems to favor the original diesel mom then the albany a little easier to grow. anyway the one constant is that original diesel is the female for sour.
there are multiple names/phenos for original diesel, headband, daywrecker(chem91 been said to also sell under name diesel instead of chem . in sour the combination of this diesel diversity mixing with the hawaiian frosty kind bud created that wonderful dour. we can say for sure one of the chems is a parent in original diesel. since it was a herm mating there must have been alot of the first gen sour seeds to grow out.
beyond that i wasnt there, digging deeper in to the cannabinoid/terpene profile could highlight some highly informative outlier/variation. mycerene content variablity one of if not the most discriminating factor for effect between chemotype phenos. we seen that at piffcon results. also, plants have 1 synthase creates only mycerene and another which results in mycerene and ocimene at a specific ratio. a mating which progeny had both synthases results in couchlock and homogenization of short duration effect. while an f1 hybrid throws ocimene or not probly has long lasting results on the profile.
minor cannabinoids are also very useful to discriminate between phenotypes and genotypes too. thcv has highest in north/south east india and feral sativa thru ne india to nepal then golden triangle. while se asia,south china have very high cbc and many also carry cannabigerol monomethyl ether which is very high in korean and japaense lines, and some haze lines.

other plants involved0 chem91 skva

and bottom pic is some kind of skunk x diesel gifted by weasels son?

 

[Dawgz_Daze]

View attachment 18749278
this vendor on strainly has the biggest and best verified clone list ive ever seen. like a wiishlist for me when i started growin. all of the best bud available was clone only obviously and finding somewhere to buy clones was a longshot pipe dream in the early 2000s. my boy was bringing back jars of from ny especially after the big haze guys went down.
View attachment 18749280


rezs cut he used for his lines i think is a slightly different pheno still considered best too .seems to favor the original diesel mom then the albany a little easier to grow. anyway the one constant is that original diesel is the female for sour.
there are multiple names/phenos for original diesel, headband, daywrecker(chem91 been said to also sell under name diesel instead of chem . in sour the combination of this diesel diversity mixing with the hawaiian frosty kind bud created that wonderful dour. we can say for sure one of the chems is a parent in original diesel. since it was a herm mating there must have been alot of the first gen sour seeds to grow out.
beyond that i wasnt there, digging deeper in to the cannabinoid/terpene profile could highlight some highly informative outlier/variation. mycerene content variablity one of if not the most discriminating factor for effect between chemotype phenos. we seen that at piffcon results. also, plants have 1 synthase creates only mycerene and another which results in mycerene and ocimene at a specific ratio. a mating which progeny had both synthases results in couchlock and homogenization of short duration effect. while an f1 hybrid throws ocimene or not probly has long lasting results on the profile.
minor cannabinoids are also very useful to discriminate between phenotypes and genotypes too. thcv has highest in north/south east india and feral sativa thru ne india to nepal then golden triangle. while se asia,south china have very high cbc and many also carry cannabigerol monomethyl ether which is very high in korean and japaense lines, and some haze lines.

other plants involved0 chem91 skva

and bottom pic is some kind of skunk x diesel gifted by weasels son? View attachment 18749286
View attachment 18749284 View attachment 18749283

You're selling cuts of the Albany Sour?

 

[Crazy Chester]

original diesel was before sour and is mother of sour. weasel put chem 91 to (mass super skunk x nl) to create original diesel.
i believe the mss x nl was a planned cross since mss is a female clone and so is chem91. im not sure if original diesel itself was a planned breeding. there are quotes also which claim original diesel is just chem91 renamed due to ppl not like contotation of chem in early days of indoor market. but i dont think that is true. there are several different phenos/seed gens/names?

I found this video on youtube (actually audio) - I think it is Weasel talking (strong Staten Island accent). He says he created the seeds that became both his cut of Sour Diesel and what sounds like AJ's cut (popped by the "upstate crew" & "Joe") - they are sisters. Here's the video link:

But, according to him, the Diesel female that was crossed to the Hawaiian male to make the Sour Diesel cuts was a NL x MSS BX2. MSS, presumably being a female clone, had to be crossed out to something to get a male to be back-crossed to, yet he didn't say what that plant was - did he use Chem '91 reversed pollen to make the MSS BX2 female to cross to the Hawaiian male?

When the NL x MSS BX2 was crossed to the Hawaiian, he said it created seeds that were "surprisingly stable".

Both he and the upstate NY crew grew the seeds.

His keeper is now known as the "Weasel" and the upstate NY crew's keeper is now known as "AJs".

Interesting that Weasel also states at the end of the video that he thought AJs "was a little better" than his. I've heard the same thing about the Weasel cut - it seems those who have grown both describe their preferred cut as being only a little bit better than the other.

I'm growing both side by side in the same pot right now. They're about half-way through flowering and the only difference I can see or smell is the pre-flower calyxes on AJ's appear to be slightly larger than those on the Weasel - but, the regular flower calyxes are identical.

Here's a pic of them - Weasel cola is in the middle flanked by two AJ colas.

 

[Dawgz_Daze]

I found this video on youtube (actually audio) - I think it is Weasel talking (strong Staten Island accent). He says he created the seeds that became both his cut of Sour Diesel and what sounds like AJ's cut (popped by the "upstate crew" & "Joe") - they are sisters. Here's the video link:

But, according to him, the Diesel female that was crossed to the Hawaiian male to make the Sour Diesel cuts was a NL x MSS BX2. MSS, presumably being a female clone, had to be crossed out to something to get a male to be back-crossed to, yet he didn't say what that plant was - did he use Chem '91 reversed pollen to make the MSS BX2 female to cross to the Hawaiian male?

When the NL x MSS BX2 was crossed to the Hawaiian, he said it created seeds that were "surprisingly stable".

Both he and the upstate NY crew grew the seeds.

His keeper is now known as the "Weasel" and the upstate NY crew's keeper is now known as "AJs".

Interesting that Weasel also states at the end of the video that he thought AJs "was a little better" than his. I've heard the same thing about the Weasel cut - it seems those who have grown both describe their preferred cut as being only a little bit better than the other.

I'm growing both side by side in the same pot right now. They're about half-way through flowering and the only difference I can see or smell is the pre-flower calyxes on AJ's appear to be slightly larger than those on the Weasel - but, the regular flower calyxes are identical.

Here's a pic of them - Weasel cola is in the middle flanked by two AJ colas.

View attachment 18749545

I flat out just dont believe that myself. I'm not an expert but I'm very skeptical of people claiming they actually "bred" cuts like Sour and OG on purpose that were probably accidents all around. Just my 2 cents.