~Pimp your Organic Fertilizer~

[Thundurkel]

Funny you link me to that cuz I have that Skunk issue along with the other Organic issue with orgainc cloning ect. those tea recipe's are exactly what I'm switching over to once I run out of my bottled ferts... I just remember reading a thread somewhere here about bubbling your regular nute mix to get more out of it and so far my girls are happy as shit. Since Tiger Bloom is organic based how bad is it really? would I be better making a tea with just Alaska Fish Emulsion and Big Bloom with some Moleasses and Superthrive?

 

[Suby]

This is a common misconception between brewed compost tea and bubbling fertilizer.
By bubbling fertlizers like FF and PBpro you get extra oxygen in them, if you add compost and molasses you get a hybrid I guess but it won't be naerly as effective as CT minus the ferts.
CT's are for soil biology period, they will repopulate the soil which turn those wondefull soil ingredient into usuable food for the plant.
Fetilizers provide just plain food, FF and PBP contain ingredient which are already available to the plant, some of these ingredients can harm SOME soil biology in the CT, I think it's overstated that it will kill them all, using hydro-organic ferts will have a limited affect on them but the more diverse we get in the number and range of species and the balance between them the better soil health will be.
The best IMO is to mix ferts into CT's right before feeding and use a tried and true CT recipe without the ferts.
I've read alot of REV's work, he's done alot of hands on research and is a great mentor to alot of growers, we have alot of his articles in the OFC for those inetrested, see the sticky at the top of the page.

 

[Suby]

Godamn the spelling mistakes are flying lol.

 

[ThisBuds4You]

Suby:
Thanks for the clarification. So...wouldn't adding a salt based fert to an organic regiment hurt organic soil? You're correct about it not killing everything, but does it kill all the fungus? Can this teeming bacteria be created in coco? I guess that's hydro-organics. Does the coco retain some nutrients like soil does? Maybe I should check out the hydro organics section. I just smoked some hash for the first time, I'm rambling Thanks for the info Suby, I always value your opinion.

Thundurkel:
I think you may actually want to leave the Superthrive out too, correct me if I'm wrong??? Is Superthrive also salt-based? Anyway, been lurking your new thread, I'll have to stop by and say what up.
--
TB4U

 

[Suby]

Coco and soil are both substrates, as such they can house a microherd easily, my feeling is that peat based soils are higher in humus and soil biology has eveolved in soil whilce coco is a man made product, it doesn't buffer ph as well in part because it doesn't have humus from the get go and because it is a cationic exchange matrix, both medium behave differently with respect to ph and nutrient exchange.
Coco is naturally high in thricoderma but that's only a small part of the soil life equation.
I don't use Superthrive but it is not organic but I can be sure how badly it affects soil biology.
Coco retain cations in it's cationic exchange matrix like Ca and Mg and P while elements like N are much more available.
If you add any 3part fert to an organic soil you are affective the microherd for sure, using hydro organic ferts like FF and PBP they are designed to work hand in hand with the microherd.

 

[Thundurkel]

This is a common misconception between brewed compost tea and bubbling fertilizer.
By bubbling fertlizers like FF and PBpro you get extra oxygen in them, if you add compost and molasses you get a hybrid I guess but it won't be naerly as effective as CT minus the ferts.
CT's are for soil biology period, they will repopulate the soil which turn those wondefull soil ingredient into usuable food for the plant.

No I understand all this completely I was just saying thats what I'm doing at the moment trying to get more out of my stuff. Believe me as soon as I have some extra cash I buying all the ingredients to make the "Mother Mary's Tea Recipe's" .

I've read alot of Rev's work too, I was also thinking of just trying out the "Liquid Nutrient Trifecta" that Rev say's has become his mantra which consisted of...
Alaska Fish Emulsion 5-1-1
FF Big Bloom 0.01-0.3-0.7
Liquid Karma 0.1-0.1-0.5

Now I was also curious about the above mix seeing that I don't have Liquid Karma could I just go heavier on Big Bloom? Or would my girls not make it on just Fish Emulsion,Big Bloom, and some Moleasses??

 

[Thundurkel]

Suby:


Thundurkel:
I think you may actually want to leave the Superthrive out too, correct me if I'm wrong??? Is Superthrive also salt-based? Anyway, been lurking your new thread, I'll have to stop by and say what up.
--
TB4U

Really? Why is that? is it killing off my micro herd cuz if so that it's gotta go! I just used it cuz it made a difference when I used the good ol DrBud line up of Shultz ect.. But now I have too many peeps looking up to me for some reason so I want to step it up and make sure I have my shit right so thanks for the corrections

 

[Thundurkel]

Ok so I did a little research cuz I felt that Superthrive was organic since it was recommended by Soma in his book on organic growing. I looked up what I could and here is what I found...

Product Description
Superthrive has been around since it won the only science and industry gold medal known to have been awarded at any official world's fair in 1940. Superthrive today is still unchallanged in its effective use as a plant stimulent, containing 50 vitamins and hormones necessary for healthy plant growth. Superthrive is NOT a plant food, but should be used in conjunction with a good fertilizing regimen. It is used for plant heath and maintenance, stress reducer in transplanting and increasing flower blooms, fruit and vegetable production. Its uses are endless and most important it is completely ORGANIC in nature. Popular in Hydroponics, orchards, field crops, lawn care, seed germination. Gardeners can benefit by healthier fruit and vegetables, as well as flowers and landscape plants. Dealer inquiries are welcome.

with that being said I will do a test with Superthrive and without and see what the results will be

 

[CanaDan420]

Im kinda in a bind right now. I have been really lost on what kinda nutes to use. I have switched from Hydro to Soil, and Organics seem to be the best way to go! I used MetaNaturals once outside and got some very potent herb but I got some very small buds. Theres SO MANY NUTES OUT THERE, I dont know where to start. It seems like theres so many good nutrients out there, that I feel drunk when looking at em all! LoL....so what I wanted to ask is what would be the best bet for the kinda system Im running.
I am in FFOF, with Light Warrior at 30%, I added 1 1/2 cups High N Guano, 1 1/2 cups High P guano, and 1 1/2 cups Kelp Meal and some extra EWC. I so far have had the best herb from organics, and what my goal is, is to get a good harvest hoping at least a LB per 1k and will be in 5 gallon pots. So since the MetaNaturals I have are pretty much bad I think, Im going to need to go with a new set of nutrients, and theres so many out there....how do I know what is the best one to use? LoL.....I really am having a hard time making a decision. I have been told the Pure Blend Original is a good Nute to use, and to use it with some Cal/Mag....and I also have Kelpak. Ill be adding the Kelpak at about 1:300 and the cal/mag at probably 2.5 - 5 ml.....I just need some help on finding a good base mix. I wanna go with something Organic, and I noticed there was some Pure Blend Original posted on the first page. Would this be a good nutrient to go with? I also brew a Compost Tea from KIS, and add a variety of diff stuff to it including Neptunes Harvest, BS Molasses, Earth Juice Assist (yucca) and Humic Acids with of course the KIS bag and its activators. So Im hoping to get a nute that is going to be able to work with my Micros and also grow strong potent stanky sticky tasty weed! LoL....I really would really like to find a nutrient brand that is dialed in for sure..if anyone here has any suggestions I would really appreciate the help! I just wanna grow some really bomb TOP notch herb, and through Organics seems to be the only way! I dont know anything about Bone Meal and Blood Meal and all that but am truely open to any suggestions, especially if you have a dialed recipe!!! Thanks in advance for any suggestions and responses!

 

[Thundurkel]

Im kinda new to organics but from what I can see your soil mix you got going seems like it would be fine to just use water all the way through...

 

[CanaDan420]

Im kinda new to organics but from what I can see your soil mix you got going seems like it would be fine to just use water all the way through...

Yea It actually will pretty much almost make it through Veg, but around the end of veg they will start to look pretty hungry. I ran this mix once before, It was outside though...my first soil run ever that was serious enough to give me some weight that was supremley Impressive. I have been debating the Pure Blend Original Series since Im not going to need anything that strong since my soils got so much goodness in it, I dont wanna run Cal/Mag but I also dont want lime in my soil. I hear from a lot of folks its why I got such small nuggets on the last run....but then again it was chunky dolomite. Anyways it will be interesting to hear what people think are the best way to go on nutes. I love giving them Compost Tea that I brew from KIS, and I love adding all that good stuff in it, and I wonder how mixing my own nutes in would be.....do a lot of people do that for their microbe herd? I just wanna grow the best possible dank I can, and as much as I can!

 

[Thundurkel]

Yea Compost Tea's are the best way to go IMO but you may want to try out some Fox Farm Big Bloom that might do it for you also. Personally I would go with the Mother Mary's Tea's from the Skunk mag article, thats what I am going to try out for my first tea's. Here's the recipe's thanks to ThisBuds4You for posting it....

Mother Mary's Tea Recipes

*The measurments below are for a one gallon tea bubbler.When making teas in smaller containers,simply adjust the recipe or dilute the final tea with water.

*In these recipes,brew the tea with an airstone in a one gallon container for 24 to 48 hours.When you're done brewing,strain it through a nylon stocking (for topical/sprayer applications) or a standard strainer (for normal watering applications) and cut it 50/50 using dechlorinated water.

*Fungi-dominant tea compost should be mixed together and kept very wet for three to seven days prior to brewing.Store it high in a room,near the ceiling and in the dark.The microlife and fungi populations will really bloom if you place a heating pad-set to low-below the container (shoot for 68-75 degrees fahrenheit;20-24 degrees celsius).After three days,it will be visibly booming with fungus (what I call "Santa's Beard").Put this in your tea brewer and bubble it (in place of regular compost).

*Prepare for the container to foam up and bubble over.You should place a tray under your tea bubbler and avoid any electrical or other items that may be damaged or unsafe around the bubbling water.



Vegetattive Stage Recipe

* One Gallon Water *: R/O water,rain water,distilled etc. etc.

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured)1-0-5)*:
Be sure to use only the unsulfured variety.This is because sulfur kills microlife,especially fungus (unless it's elemental sulfur in small ratios).

* One Teaspoon liquid Alaskan Fish Fertilizer (5-1-1)*:
Fungus and bacteria both love fish ferts and go nuts reproducing when it's included.

* One Cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or good outdoor compost*:
Vermicompost provides humates,enzymes,protozoa,nematodes,bacteria,fungus ,trace elements,secondary and primary nutrients.

* One Teaspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).






Flowering Stage Recipes

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured) (1-0-5) *:
An excellent source of potassium during flowering;bacteria prefer these simple sugars,whereas the fungus prefer more complex sugars derived from various organic matter.

* One Teaspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).

* One Teaspoon High Phosphorous Bat Guano (0-4-0) *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* One cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or regular compost *:
Good balance of nutrient (trace and secondary).Also a source for microbes and beneficial elements.

* One teaspoon Maxicrop liquid or 1/2 teaspoon water soluble Maxicrop or kelp/seaweed extract (dry) *:
A fungal favorite,this is a key tea ingredient that produces a good ratio of happy fungus.It's also booming with trace elements,some nitrogen,and some potassium.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source for phosphorous,magnesium & sulfur.




Fungus Dominant (halfway through flowering) Recipes

* 1/2 cup Earthworm Castings *:
See above.

* 1/2 cup Mushroom Compost *:
This is fungus waiting to happen.A rich source of fungal spores and dense organic matter that fungi like to eat.

* Two tablespoons Powdered,100% Natural rolled oats *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* Two teaspoons Kelp Meal *:
I use kelp meal for several reasons.It's organic matter that fungi like to attach themselves to.Fungi love kelp extracts as a primary food source and the rich trace elements and potassium it introduces.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source of phosphorous,magnesium and sulfur.


The earthworm castings,mushroom compost,oatmeal,and kelp meal are first mixed together and made very wet.After fungus has grown on this blend,place it in your tea bubbler for 24 hours with some additional liquid (or water soluble) kelp/seaweed extract and Micronized (soft) rock phosphate.

 

[dirkdaddy]

www.organicgem.com

Fish hydrolysate is the term that you want to see on a liquid fish product. Some fish meals are created this way as well.

In the past 8 years or so there have been several start-up companies in and around coastal cities processing these types of products. There's even a catfish 'farmer' down in Mississippi who is making a product from the fish that he raises and processes for market.

One thing to consider when using the Kelpak:

The vast majority of seaweed/kelp products are derived from the Ascophyllum nodosum

It might be worth a read.

CC

mountainkind and clackamas coot, I gotta thank yall for suggesting the organic gem fertilizer paired with a liquid kelp extract. its been working perfect for me so far, I love this stuff! not too expensive and it has been highly effective so far. this paired with my dry amendments to my soil has brought my grows to a new level, just what I needed. also, clones love the stuff too! I was running into deficiencies early in flower before and now that is all solved. figured this thread deserves a bump for great justice.

so to pimp my fertilizer I suggest organic gem liquid fish fertilizer and a liquid kelp extract (maxicrop, kelpak, ecklonia, groworganic.com brand, too many to list). its just too easy. both can be purchased at 4hydroponics.com

 

[cebe11]

Regarding this post:

Originally Posted by Clackamas Coot
Steve Solomon was the guy who founded Territorial Seed Company here in Oregon. They specialize in organic farming products, heirloom seeds, books, etc. Good folks.

A couple of years back, Steve wrote an article for Mother Earth News magazine on making your own organic fertilizer.

Here it is:

4 parts seed meal
1/4 part agricultural lime (finely ground)
1/4 part gypsum (or oyster shell flour)
1/2 part dolomite lime
1 part fish bone meal, rock phosphate or high-phosphate guano
1 part kelp meal

Mix and apply 1/2 - 3/4 cup per 5 gallon pot of soil

It will last for years and years - almost forever.

And it's cheap!

Can this be used for veg and flower? Anything else needed? I like the cost and simplicity of this.

 

[MyGto2007]

Product name:BMO
Manufacturer:Blue Mountian Organics
Fertilizer #'s NPK and other:Super Plant Tonic
Foliar Harmony 2-4-2
Grow It Green 5-2-5
Flower Power 1-8-7
Application rates as listed:
Online Source:E ~BAY

 

[Igotyourback]

Some Great Info Thanks

 

[DankByNature]

Bio-Amino 7-1-1
Pathway-technologies
Used during transplants, and once at 2nd week of flowering

I believe that the most important aspect is soil balance, which many of these products offer. I am currently testing a product (not retail) that guarantees that everything will be alive. This soil microbial program allows the user to make the product when needed, and provides a 6 hour window for success. – not getting this out of a bottle. A bio-depenser is used to brew a biological consortia at a regulated temp (110-130F) – (this range is optimal for the greatest proliferation of beneficial bacteria and fungi). The mix is fermented in the biodepenser for 48 hours, and must be applied within 6 hours.

I plan to test this once in veg, and once at the onset of flowering

Bio-Amino (7-1-1) - The product is a novel biological enhanced specialty fertilizer, which simultaneously addresses soil health and plant nutrition.This amino acid based formulation contains a select consortium of highly beneficial soil microorganisms, kelp extracts andpotassium humate. The product is a comprehensive introduction of beneficial microbial species. This synergistic blend of ingredients stimulates a series of positive feedback mechanisms whereby the sum total of the system is greater than the individual components that comprise it.
The product is the ideal choice for turf, ornamental, agriculture and greenhouse applications. It may be applied via traditional spray equipment, fertigation systems, aerially or through drip systems. The biologically enhanced fertilizer contains twenty-one different amino acids and a variety of polypeptide sequences all derived from natural proteins utilizing a proprietary hydrolytic process. The amino acid portion of the formula addresses the immediate nutritional requirements of plants providing them with a quick, readily available source of primary nutrients.
In turn the polypeptide sequences provide the formulation within a sustained release nutrient package. Due to their inherent low molecular weight, amino acids also facilitate nutrient absorption and translocation within the plant tissue, which in turn promotes optimal nutrient utilization. There presence in the formula also serves to augment the growth and stability of the microbial portion of the product. Beneficial soil microorganisms utilize free amino acids to drive the catabolic and anabolic processes essential to microbial life.
The humic acid portion of the product provides plants with essential organic metabolites in addition to enhancing nutrient uptake and increasing Cation Exchange Capacity. Humic acid also serves to promote microbial growth and proliferation further enhancing the microbial system.
The product contains kelp, which has been manufactured utilizing a process to ensure maximum retention of the delicate bio-stimulant compounds found in freshly harvested Ecklonia maxima. Kelp increases root growth, increases fruiting and flowering, promotes plant establishment of provides increased resistance to environmental extremes such as heat, drought, cold and excessive foot traffic. Kelp also drastically increases mineral uptake and facilitates the translocation of water and solutes within the plant tissue.

KEY TO SYNERGIES & FEEDBACK MECHANISMS:
A = Plant roots shed cortical cells which provides carbon source (food) for microbial system
B = Microorganisms inhabit rhizosphere to feed on exudates and in turn protect and nourish roots
C = Amino Acids provide readily available source of primary nutrients for plant
D = Microorganisms utilize amino acids to satiate metabolic functions and drive catabolic & anabolic processes
E = Humates provide plant with essential metabolites and enhance nutrient uptake by roots
F = Humates provide food source for microbial system to promote microbial growth & proliferation
G = Kelp stimulates plant growth and provides increased resistance to environmental extremes
H = Amino acids help piggyback metabolites and minerals provided by kelp & humates into plant
I = Kelp feeds microbial system to promote microbial growth & proliferation
J = Kelp facilitates uptake of minerals and solutes by plant roots
Pathway
Product ingredients:
· 7 genus with 55 strains of Beneficial Bacteria – genus include Bacillus , Pseudomonas, Streptromycetes, Actimomycetes, Sacharomyces, Trichoderma, and Penicillium.
· 4% Potassium Humate
· 4% Kelp (Ecklonia maxima)
· Amino Acids
· Vitamins
· Plant Sugars
SOIL TEST will be used to confirm

My organic soil mix-
Ingredients:
• 1 Bale ProMix BX w/ Mycorrhizae
• 20-50 lbs. Worm castings
• 16 Quarts Perlite
• 4 Cups Dolimitic Lime
• 4 Cups Greensand
• 4 Cups Kelp Meal
• 4 Cups Bat Guano (High N for Veg, High P for Flower)
• 2 Cups Gypsum
• 2 Cups Rare Earth

 

[Guest 88950]

thanks for all the info.

 

[maryjohn]

Sounds like shit people are already doing in a package to convince you it's new. I'm suggesting marketing bullshit is located above. Might be ok products if they are cheap bit that kind of marketing never goes with cheap products as it aims to profit from ignorance.

"enzyme based"? WTF? Nothing is enzyme based. An enzyme is a kind of catalyst. Any handful of compost is full of enzymes.

To ferment at 110 F, get some soda bottles, a lightbulb, and a foam cooler.

Aerobic preparations should be closer to soil temp in your grow.

May I suggest a cup or two of finished compost in a bucket. Stir, and apply. Or if compost is limited, brew aerated tea. For anaerobic needs, check out the lactobacillus thread, or get a bottle of em-1 and start brewing. Applications not limited to the garden.

 

[DankByNature]

It is not retail, so why would it be an advertisement. Sure glad we have an organic chemist on our hands!

"everyone thinks their view is philosophical in origin, and everyone thinks the view of others are psychological in origin"