Why is medical marijuana so expensive?

[Owl Mirror]

OM, I don't care if he wrote it, the words just aren't there to support that interpretation. Did you know Dennis Peron took a case to the CA supreme Court arguing the intent of P215, and lost?

This is the only thing I see on point:

(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

You're going to have a hard time getting the courts to go along with your interpretation.

I'm uncertain how else anyone could construe the meaning.
The caregiver can not SELL marijuana to the patient under Michigan Law. They can ONLY receive compensation for their performance.
What would the price by weight be? How would they calculate the cost for their service?
Are you saying compensation based upon $50 per 1/8 ounce is legal under Michigan Law?
Does it cost $400 per ounce to grow?
It cost me around $150 to grow out twelve plants which average 3 ounces per plant. I can do that every 120 days.
So rather than 12x3x$400 per ounce = $14,400, it costs $150.
Why should any patient pay someone $14,250 in compensation ?

GREED!

Your law may differ from ours and if you are happy with the arrangement, fine. I question whether the patients are being served or being taken advantage of.

I can only assume you are a caregiver/grower/supplier and not a patient, living on SSDI.

 

[Owl Mirror]

you're brain washed. are you an anti mmj city attorney or something?

HOSS, why do you act like a dick all the time?
If you do not believe what I've said, prove me wrong.
Just do it like most adults, minus the insults and false accusations.

Then again, maybe you are not an adult?

 

[Owl Mirror]

So who decides that my time for spending 100 days growing these plants is worth 200 dollars ?

First of all, I am speaking of Michigan's Law, not California.
Secondly, compensation needs to be agreed to by both parties, not demanded by caregivers, based upon Black Market pricing.

During this 100 day period, exactly how much actual time is being spent on behalf of the patient?

Working on the premise that the patient owns ALL PLANTS, how would you break down the level of compensation due?

Without selling the end product by weight, tell me how much it should cost for someone to grow out one plant per month for one patient.
In Michigan, we are allowed to possess 2.5 ounces at any one time.

I would like to hear how you would figure out compensation without selling it by weight.

 

[OU812]

Funny, I tried to pay my $500 electric bill w/karma one time and Xcel told me to go fly a kite.

You'd better hope that you never end up with an illness, disability etc. that leaves you in pain, flat broke, and walking in the shoes of many patients...unable to grow their own medicine, and unable to afford the nearly total lack of compassion out there...I wish you luck if you ever do, you'll certainly need it.

Karma goes a long way, as does paying it forward.

 

[Greyskull]

You'd better hope that you never end up with an illness, disability etc. that leaves you in pain, flat broke, and walking in the shoes of many patients...unable to grow their own medicine, and unable to afford the nearly total lack of compassion out there...I wish you luck if you ever do, you'll certainly need it.

Karma goes a long way, as does paying it forward.

i take care of a couple of quadraplegics. they are just like you describe - unable to grow their own, broke (SSI/fixed income), sick, and disabled tragicly. but they must have some other injury too they havent told me, because they seem to understand that "pot cost money to produce/procure" and "karma doesnt pay electric bills". they dont have to call me - there are other options available.
i am either really good looking, or i am providing a honest friendly reliable safe service that can be appreciatted.

being honest, friendly, reliable, and safe goes a long way, too : )

 

[OU812]

i take care of a couple of quadraplegics. they are just like you describe - unable to grow their own, broke (SSI/fixed income), sick, and disabled tragicly. but they must have some other injury too they havent told me, because they seem to understand that "pot cost money to produce/procure" and "karma doesnt pay electric bills". they dont have to call me - there are other options available. either i am really good looking, or i am providing a honest friendly reliable safe service can be appreciatted.

being honest, friendly, reliable, and safe goes a long way, too : )

Honesty is something I've found little of with many of the dispensaries here. Pre-weighed meds-when brought home are underweight (and not just by a gram or two), asking reasonable donations for meds-but even if you are there literally when the doors open they're "all gone" or it's been pulled off the shelf...coupons for discounts to new patients that are not honored when presented, etc. etc. I could go on for a week about all of the dishonesty and bait and switch tactics being used out there. It's sickening.

I'm sure they appreciate you VERY much. Safety, honesty and reliability are also hard to find. And, I'd bet you aren't asking outrageous donations for meds either. Either that, or you are gorgeous! Peace.

 

[Pythagllio]

I'm uncertain how else anyone could construe the meaning.
The caregiver can not SELL marijuana to the patient under Michigan Law. They can ONLY receive compensation for their performance.

Yes, again you insist, but don't show any language from the law from the MMMA that contains supporting language. I showed you the language that I;m reading, you should show me the language that you think supports your position, in the law, not someone's wishful thinking interpretation of it. Insisting a thing is true does not make it so.

Can't we leave the personalizations out of this? Does it serve any purpose for me to point out that your as selfishly motivated to your interpretation as your nonsense claim that somehow my interpretation is colored by my profession? MI law doesn't affect me in DC. The language concerning the distribution chain, who can do it and how is pretty darn cut & dried. One of the best things about the DC law, we won't be having hare brained arguments over what caregivers/dispensaries can and can't do.

Show me the language!

 

[Pythagllio]

Funny, I tried to pay my $500 electric bill w/karma one time and Xcel told me to go fly a kite.

Good karma and $1.59 will get you a cup of coffee at the 7-11.

 

[Pythagllio]

Continual complaints about being on SSDI, with anger directed at the dispensaries is misdirected. I presume someone on SSDI gets medical care from somewhere else. Yet I've never heard any complaints about doctors, nurses, hospital, or pharmacies and the prices charged there from the people who feel entitled to the fruits of other's labor because they're indigent. I'd speculate that's because these other costs are covered by SS/Medicaid.

OM, your anger should be directed toward those who should be paying for your medicine, not those whose resources you wish to take by force. The gov't should be paying for your medicine, not the grower, and not the dispensary. Throttling supply for the sake of your needs would be nothing but counter productive overall. MI is new. It's taken 14 years for CA to get to the tipping point on supply. Today CA is flooded, and it won't be long before retail medicine prices fall off a cliff. It is inevitable unless the short sighted somehow manage to put the brakes on supply.

 

[Owl Mirror]

Continual complaints about being on SSDI, with anger directed at the dispensaries is misdirected. I presume someone on SSDI gets medical care from somewhere else. Yet I've never heard any complaints about doctors, nurses, hospital, or pharmacies and the prices charged there from the people who feel entitled to the fruits of other's labor because they're indigent. I'd speculate that's because these other costs are covered by SS/Medicaid.

OM, your anger should be directed toward those who should be paying for your medicine, not those whose resources you wish to take by force. The gov't should be paying for your medicine, not the grower, and not the dispensary. Throttling supply for the sake of your needs would be nothing but counter productive overall. MI is new. It's taken 14 years for CA to get to the tipping point on supply. Today CA is flooded, and it won't be long before retail medicine prices fall off a cliff. It is inevitable unless the short sighted somehow manage to put the brakes on supply.

REASONABLE COMPENSATION for services rendered per contractual obligation can not include the sale of marijuana. The caregiver is contracted to grow the plants for the patient.
Please tell me how the very language you cite allows for the sale of 1/8 ounces for $50-80.

I do not want anything for free and I resent your constant implication that I and other do.
Why is it so hard for you to understand, the patient is paying the caregiver for the time involved as well as the expenses.

Those costs should be spread over ALL patients being serviced.
If the actual expenses for one complete crop, servicing 5 people equals $500. Why should the caregiver charge EACH patient for the entire cost of the grow, then charge them black market prices also.
That $500 in expenses should be equally divided between the five patients.

The only reason caregivers insist they own the plants is due to patients on a limited income can only afford very little med. This leaves the caregiver to make their PROFITS by diverting the rest of the patients plant out the back door.

Even if the caregiver were to charge a flat hourly fee plus expenses, should the patient pay for time spent on other patients plants too?
Should a patient pay for the caregiver who sits in their flower room for hours on end?

Each patient should receive an itemized list of charges and pay this amount when they take possession of their entire plant(s).

As it is now, caregivers are charging each patient the full amount of expenses, even though those expenses cover five patients crops.

At most, it should take approx. 25 hours of time for each 100 day grow.
You mention the cost of energy. Should EACH patient pay the full charge for the electric bill? Should the caregiver receive the full amount of the electric bill from each patient or should that bill be split five ways ?
A bottle of nutes cost $50 and is used on ALL five patients plants.
Should each patient be charged the full $50 for a bottle that is used between all five patients or should that $50 be divided by five patients?

I do not believe I am being unreasonable.

Oh, let's also do away with this false notion of RISK.

Obama Administration Issues New Medical Marijuana Policy
Obama Vows to Protect State Medical Marijuana Laws

President Obama's Administration sends down memo clarifying the administration's policy on medical marijuana.

UNLESS THE CAREGIVER OR DISPENSORARY IS OPERATING OUTSIDE THE GUIDELINES AND LAWS OF THEIR STATE, THEY SHALL NOT BE TARGETED.

Obama MJ Policy - What Does it Mean?

 

[Hydrosun]

REASONABLE COMPENSATION for services rendered per contractual obligation can not include the sale of marijuana. The caregiver is contracted to grow the plants for the patient.
Please tell me how the very language you cite allows for the sale of 1/8 ounces for $50-80.

I do not want anything for free and I resent your constant implication that I and other do.
Why is it so hard for you to understand, the patient is paying the caregiver for the time involved as well as the expenses.

Those costs should be spread over ALL patients being serviced.
If the actual expenses for one complete crop, servicing 5 people equals $500. Why should the caregiver charge EACH patient for the entire cost of the grow, then charge them black market prices also.
That $500 in expenses should be equally divided between the five patients.

The only reason caregivers insist they own the plants is due to patients on a limited income can only afford very little med. This leaves the caregiver to make their PROFITS by diverting the rest of the patients plant out the back door.

Even if the caregiver were to charge a flat hourly fee plus expenses, should the patient pay for time spent on other patients plants too?
Should a patient pay for the caregiver who sits in their flower room for hours on end?

Each patient should receive an itemized list of charges and pay this amount when they take possession of their entire plant(s).

As it is now, caregivers are charging each patient the full amount of expenses, even though those expenses cover five patients crops.

At most, it should take approx. 25 hours of time for each 100 day grow.
You mention the cost of energy. Should EACH patient pay the full charge for the electric bill? Should the caregiver receive the full amount of the electric bill from each patient or should that bill be split five ways ?
A bottle of nutes cost $50 and is used on ALL five patients plants.
Should each patient be charged the full $50 for a bottle that is used between all five patients or should that $50 be divided by five patients?

I do not believe I am being unreasonable.

Oh, let's also do away with this false notion of RISK.

Obama Administration Issues New Medical Marijuana Policy
Obama Vows to Protect State Medical Marijuana Laws


UNLESS THE CAREGIVER OR DISPENSORARY IS OPERATING OUTSIDE THE GUIDELINES AND LAWS OF THEIR STATE, THEY SHALL NOT BE TARGETED.

Obama MJ Policy - What Does it Mean?

That Sir, is the biggest lie on ICmag.

You insist, ney demand services and products from others for free and you do it in the most repulsive and entitled way. Your "Shoulds" and "At Mosts" from above are typical mandates from looters.

You have no way to know what it should or at most takes because; you sir are not anywhere near the caliber of grower or educator needed to help ONE MMJ patient meet their NEEDS let a lone a dozen.

The instant you tell ANY other human their time is at MOST worth $X you are a moocher & looter. You under stand if the other human thought their good or service was worth $X+1, and you only paid $X took the goods or services and exited then you STOLE. Small minded looters and moochers will try to justify this type of theft by saying they didn't want any thing for free and the good or service was only worth $X, so the looter feels himself morally justified to loot again and even call for the police to arrest the PRODUCER for having the gaul to value their product at $X+1.

Your thoughts are what I teach children to recognize from an early age and protect themselves from else they end up weak, suckling, and dependent for the rest of their lives while they viciously point guns at their neighbors.

"Why is MMJ so expeinsive: ANSWER because the world is filled with looters, moochers, and NON-PRODUCERS that shackle and enslave the PRODUCERS"

This thread has drawn a good number of authors, perhaps an ICmag poll is in order to see if ICmager's prefer the Ayn Randesq (A) ALL MEN ARE FREE TO PRODUCE or (B) NO PRODUCTION for anyone because of federal law or (C) REGULATED PRODUCTION to ensure that governments, moochers, and looters are free to steal from, enslave, imprision, or execute those producers they don't like.

I know I am in the A camp and I feel you are in the C camp, what a shame.

Peace,

 

[Pythagllio]

OM keeps repeating himself and insisting he's correct, but still has not posted any language from the MMMA supporting his assertions. The reason is because there is no language in the MMMA which supports his position.

I've said my piece.

 

[Hydrosun]

OM keeps repeating himself and insisting he's correct, but still has not posted any language from the MMMA supporting his assertions. The reason is because there is no language in the MMMA which supports his position.

I've said my piece.

Logic, reason, truth, natural law, ethics, and morality are irrelevant to one who would loot, mooch, or enslave.

Peace,

 

[HossCartwright]

What a joke! The mythical "grade A meds", so difficult to grow, you had best get it from an expert-texpert MMJ dealer for BIG $$$. A "newbie" grower couldn't possibly produce anything worthy.

Riiiight...

Not true. A newbie grower can definitely get lucky. But with experience comes consistency. But you're just trying to fight so FU.

HOSS, why do you act like a dick all the time?
If you do not believe what I've said, prove me wrong.
Just do it like most adults, minus the insults and false accusations.

Then again, maybe you are not an adult?

So you feel that I've insulted you, and you convey that message by calling me childish, and insulting me? Hypocrisy is thick in here.

You'd better hope that you never end up with an illness, disability etc. that leaves you in pain, flat broke, and walking in the shoes of many patients...unable to grow their own medicine, and unable to afford the nearly total lack of compassion out there...I wish you luck if you ever do, you'll certainly need it.

Karma goes a long way, as does paying it forward.

You do not understand the concept of karma and throw the term around like you read about it in the bible.

 

[zenoonez]

It doesn't matter if he finds the language he wants in the bill. The point is that his position is untenable because of the inherent contradiction in it. OM is willing to break federal law however he wants us to follow state law. So why is that? Do you believe that marijuana should only be for the sick and dying? Do you believe that marijuana shouldn't be sold as you claim? Marijuana should be completely legalized pursuant to the fact that it is your right to grow, smoke, do whatever with marijuana that you please. It is not the government's role nor right to infringe upon that. So what is it OM? Do you really believe in legalization or do you really believe in a flawed medical system which stifles free enterprise and capitalism where the patient aka buyer is empowered by that role and not slave to it?

 

[Owl Mirror]

That Sir, is the biggest lie on ICmag.

You insist, ney demand services and products from others for free and you do it in the most repulsive and entitled way. Your "Shoulds" and "At Mosts" from above are typical mandates from looters.

You have no way to know what it should or at most takes because; you sir are not anywhere near the caliber of grower or educator needed to help ONE MMJ patient meet their NEEDS let a lone a dozen.

The instant you tell ANY other human their time is at MOST worth $X you are a moocher & looter. You under stand if the other human thought their good or service was worth $X+1, and you only paid $X took the goods or services and exited then you STOLE. Small minded looters and moochers will try to justify this type of theft by saying they didn't want any thing for free and the good or service was only worth $X, so the looter feels himself morally justified to loot again and even call for the police to arrest the PRODUCER for having the gaul to value their product at $X+1.

Your thoughts are what I teach children to recognize from an early age and protect themselves from else they end up weak, suckling, and dependent for the rest of their lives while they viciously point guns at their neighbors.

"Why is MMJ so expeinsive: ANSWER because the world is filled with looters, moochers, and NON-PRODUCERS that shackle and enslave the PRODUCERS"

This thread has drawn a good number of authors, perhaps an ICmag poll is in order to see if ICmager's prefer the Ayn Randesq (A) ALL MEN ARE FREE TO PRODUCE or (B) NO PRODUCTION for anyone because of federal law or (C) REGULATED PRODUCTION to ensure that governments, moochers, and looters are free to steal from, enslave, imprision, or execute those producers they don't like.

I know I am in the A camp and I feel you are in the C camp, what a shame.

Peace,

Too bad you can't read and comprehend what another says.

 

[Hydrosun]

Too bad you can't read and comprehend what another says.

Too bad I just read a few post above yours and now have no doubt you are in the C camp.

Peace,

 

[kmk420kali]

First of all, I am speaking of Michigan's Law, not California.
Secondly, compensation needs to be agreed to by both parties, not demanded by caregivers, based upon Black Market pricing.

During this 100 day period, exactly how much actual time is being spent on behalf of the patient?

Working on the premise that the patient owns ALL PLANTS, how would you break down the level of compensation due?

Without selling the end product by weight, tell me how much it should cost for someone to grow out one plant per month for one patient.
In Michigan, we are allowed to possess 2.5 ounces at any one time.

I would like to hear how you would figure out compensation without selling it by weight.

And if the Caregiver gets busted...the Patients are all gonna pay for his Legal fees??
Before you go quoting Obama's statement, I mean by local cops--
They do it all the time-- Bust you, take your plants and equipment...and let you hash it out in Court--
$20,000 later....you are found not guilty--
Don't believe me?? Ask the Babba's...they had to go through it--
Are the Patient's willing to put their % into an Insurance Fund??
I think not--
How do you screen the Patients, to make sure they are not just reselling it for the much higher street prices??

 

[richyrich]

Once again, the object of the anger of these posters is understandable, but misdirected. The correct place to direct this anger is against the US Gov't. It is US Gov't idiocy that places restrictions that result in an inability for producers to take their business to a place where economies of scale will drive the price down. Further, the gov't should be paying for indigent patients' medical needs, and not picking and choosing which therapies it approves of. It is the gov't that should be paying for indigent patients medical needs, as defined by their doctor.

I wonder if anyone would object to Bill Gates paying full freight for medical cannabis were he a patient. If they think that Mr. Gates should be provided for at no cost simply because he was ill then I think they're nuts.

Anyone that thinks that a consistent, reliable supply of medicine is going to be provided by volunteers is dreaming. Were it so it would be so, because the presence of 'profiteers' hasn't prevented even one person who is inclined to do such charity work from doing so. Frankly, said profiteers may motivate people who are otherwise disinclined to help. 'Oh those profiteers piss me off. Someone has to step up to the plate and help the indigent sick'.

It is impossible to force someone to provide charity or volunteer work. It doesn't matter that you think there should be more charity or volunteers. The fact that the word 'compassionate' appears in the title of P215 is irrelevant.

I agree here. You have spelled out the reality of the whole situation. Money is the greatest motivator IMO and usually the common denominator. The word "compassionate" appearing in Prop 215 is not relevant, but the entire law of Proposition 215 is. It has to do with my next point.

I agree it should be legal. My point (which you missed) is that Prop 215 was passed to help sick people. It's called the Compassionate Use Act.

Greedy people living large off of what was supposed to be a law to help sick people is the point I am making. The banks are not using a law like Prop 215 to further their goals, but they would if they could. I didn't just fall off of a turnip truck, but seeing how much greed and how little compassion is involved is what makes me sick.

This is the same position I have held because IMO it is unethical. Yet, people have and continuously drive semis through loopholes and have left a clusterfuck of problems in the implementation of the law for the rest of the MMJ community--the fuzz too, but that is another topic. Yes, I know money rules "the common denominator", but in my gut I am still bothered by the unethical behavior. What will be, will be...

I have to drive 80 miles each way to get to this cooperative, a lot of sick people can't do that. Can't afford the tank of gas it takes to get there.

Yes people do have the right to run a business as they see fit, but if they're doing it on the back of a law written to help sick people (flawed or not) to line their own wallets and nothing else, there is something wrong with that picture.
Peace.

Don't patronize the dispensary. Simple really. That goes for pretty much your whole argument. Don't like the dispensary, don't go back to it. You have obviously found one that you like and so be it, thats GREAT FOR YOU. Send people to it, it all comes down to a dispensary providing the best product and service as to whether it will survive and thrive. However, what I am saying to you is that it is their decision how they run their business. You can say you think it should be done differently all you want but it doesn't make your words worth any more than the voice of your wallet.

Yes, vote with your wallet. It don't always work though because of monopolies, etc. I have never seen it work anywhere in any situation because the general public are a bunch of sheep loose in the fields. No organization. Pretty much like our government and voting. You're gonna have to pay to get it done like the recent successfull MJ legalization initiative drive. Money--the common denominator.

 

[Hydrosun]

So what is it 3L, A, B, or C. You are quite well read and I'm sure didn't overlook the question, so what is the answer?

Peace,