Why has no-one feminised the REAL Cheese???

[lovelightpower]

i'd definitely like some pics and instructions for how you homebrewed your Colloidal Silver.

there was a thread on making the machine. but it didnt seem to have any pictures.

i'm definitely up for trying this as soon as i can, on my psycho to begin with.

 

[englishrick]

yes......................... D.I.Y, S1 how 2......????

 

[happyherb]

yes.............................Purple Afghan in a few months.HH. =]-~

 

[englishrick]

yo .....between you and I LLP, we are packin some seriouse stinky genes...

 

[happyherb]

yes......................... D.I.Y, S1 how 2......????

something like this rick?
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60610&highlight=pheno+silver

 

[englishrick]

wickid link.....big respect for that bro,,i might never have seen it..

,,,it will be his next big thing!!,,that is getting done!...........he will do some s1`s but what do you think he should use for a cross.....an f1?....ibl?.....f2?....incross?

 

[Nifty]

a

 

[truecannabliss]

Im all over the Cheese S1's, got some big beauties in veg to be flowered in a couple weeks and another girl to reverse and hit them with....just need a buddy to throw some help my way when i catch up with him next.
Peace

 

[DocLeaf]

NEVER found a self-set seed in flowers from the original cheese clone... in fact the reason so many breeders use Skunk #1 is because it is a homogeneous plant.



,,,although Kachina (Cheese x Trainwreck) selfs itself most readily... and is often mistaken for original cheese.




cannabis is a dioecious species ,, so we guess anything is possible... although we'd have thought BigBuddha, or HotHouse, et al. would have reversed a clone to make a fem. line many moons ago, where it possible.

just my two stalks

 

[DocLeaf]

Colloidal Silver and Chemicals aren't my thing,, but I n I will keep an eye open for naturally occurring male-preflowers on UK Cheese plants from now on. If we find one we'll take a photo

n.b. they regularly occur on a number of Cheese crosses including Big Buddha's Cheese x Afghan.

 

[DocLeaf]

i dissagree....i think s1 seeds are only 65% female!...

hi rick

s1 (self-set seeds) are 99.9% female.

only chaos theory says that there is a 00.1% chance that a male may develop. (as a result of reverse sexing).

s1 are however prone to a high rate of mutation, abnormal flowers, and hermaphrodificy in "feminized" seed lines.

the easiest way to self a plant of weak or thai genetic pedigree is to stress hell out of it!

some plants are near impossible to self (s1),, unless we start talking about applying chemicals of course...

hope this helps,

 

[truecannabliss]

I have had bananas on a Cheese plant, i took her around 70+ and flushed for just over 21 days.....maybe i'll use them next time for some seed making.
Peace

 

[KindBudKid]

DocLeaf... That SpiceyCheese that you got looks mighty tasty.

 

[KindBudKid]

There is a sticky in Rez's forum that tells you exactly how to make CS. Now that I think about it there are a couple of threads on that. Just have to search.

 

[Guest]

s1 (self-set seeds) are 99.9% female.

only chaos theory says that there is a 00.1% chance that a male may develop. (as a result of reverse sexing).

s1 are however prone to a high rate of mutation, abnormal flowers, and hermaphrodificy in "feminized" seed lines.

the easiest way to self a plant of weak or thai genetic pedigree is to stress hell out of it!

some plants are near impossible to self (s1),, unless we start talking about applying chemicals of course...

hope this helps,

Doc, couple of points to correct, firstly, chaos theory doesn't come into it, it's all to do with the dna, a female plant that does not have an intersex trait will not produce ANY male offspring if selfed, it simply does not have the required chromosone - it is missing the bit of DNA that would be needed for a male to be spawned and it ain't gonna magic that missing piece out of thin air.

s1 are however prone to a high rate of mutation, abnormal flowers, and hermaphrodificy in "feminized" seed lines.

Not true, only if the work is done sloppily is this the case. Go read the writings of Cees over at nomercy.nl, he was the first to make female seeds available for sale years ago and he wasn't sloppy about it - he only used females he had thoroughly stress tested to determine if they are TRUE females or not, by true female, he means one that does no carry an itnersex trait and will NEVER express an intersex trait by producing staminate flowers due to stress, only then, when a True female has been found (and they are hard to find, many lines simply won't have any) he then selfs it using chemicals. It is only by doing things correctly and doing all the rigourous and time consuming testing to find the true females that high quality S1s without hermies, mutations etc. can be produced.

This is why I would never feminise a cut I hadn;t thoroughly tested. Cheese has been as thoroughly tested as any cut I could have laid my hands on, we know it's very stable and won't revert sex under stress, although like True says, she can make the odd staminate flower if allowed to go overripe. The Cheese may not be 100% a true female, but hey, with the resources I have at my disposal, it's the best choice I could have made I reckon.

the easiest way to self a plant of weak or thai genetic pedigree is to stress hell out of it!

Whay do you mention Thai? Thai genes are no more lprone to intersex than any others, the only reason we associate Thais with hermies is that the Thai lines that came to the West were usually seeds picked from imported Thai weed and as Sam the Skunkman has explained, the intersex problems we associate with Thai weed are due to centuries of poor farming practices. However, there were/are many Thai and SE Asian lines that do not have an intersex trait, these are usually ones collected in Thailand from small farmers who grow only for local family and friends.

Same story in Mexico, hermies a plenty in Mexican lines, but again, that's due to the centuries of farming, as with Asian sats, there are many Mexican lines without intersex trait.

Look at African sativas, you rarely get any signs of intersex with African sats, this is because they are mostly wild and uncultivated so have not been ruined by man.

Also, please do not call stressing a plant to make it produce staminate flowers 'selfing' it is not, and the seeds will have a fair proportion of intersexed plants, this is not selfing in the sense the term is used to describe intentionally produced female seeds. Soma's rodelization method is bullshit, he says that most females will produce male flowers if left overripe, well yes, many females will, but to make seeds from this method is to exploit a latent intersex trait and ensures that trait is carried onto the progeny which is bad breeding practice indeed and I can't understand why folks have never decried Soma for this.

Dutch Passion and GHS have given feminised seeds a bad name because they have used the chemicals in a lazy way as purely a way to make money, as I said earlier, only TRUE females should be selfed, and those are hard to find, many lines will not have any True females. DP released pretty much their entire catalogue in female form back in the 90s, and that is clear indication that they didn't bother doing any stress testing to find true females, they just sprayed their production mothers to make fast cash. No way would every line in their catalogue have true females. Same thing with GHS, they feminised all their lines too, it covers up their lack of breeding skills and allows them to scam even more cash from people

Now I see Franco selfing cuts with well-known and obvious intersex traits (Chemdog for one) and is going to sell these seeds. We should all be up in arms over this as without outcrossing to a known, proven, stable male and then linebreeding for several gens to select out the intersexed individuals and eliminate that nasty intersex trait, but of corse, that would take a lot of time and money, so Franco and Arjan take the lazy, easy route to the cash and just spray the cuts , colelct the seeds and laugh all the way to the bank. Franco, if you don't know that selfing a cut that prioduces staminate flowers readily is a very bad thing then you need to get out of the breeding game altogether as you haven't got a clue what you're doing, the damage to the gene pool GHS could do by selling intersexed lines has the potential to be immense.

There might be Purple Afghan S1s in time for 2009, I am currently stress testing a PA female, she has had light stress, heat stress, watering stress, rootbinding stress, lots of rough treatment, my technique with this testing is pretty good, I've been doing it for years to test males, you'd be surprised how many males will produce pistils if stressed, you should never breed with a male of this type imho as it is passing on the intersex trait. The cut will get my usual 3 'stress runs' I.E. I will flower three cuts to maturity while subjecting them to immense stresses, only if the cut passesall 3 wihout a single staminate flower appearing will it be used for breeding. You see, I truly do care more about the cannabis genepool than my wallet, so I would never dream of selfing a cut without stress testing it, obviously Franco and Arjan don't share my standards and concerns. Franco, if you self that Chemdog cut you have that chucks bananas readily and sell the S1s you are a total fuckwit who deserves the total and utter contempt of every ganja lover on the plant, while others are working hard to uphold some kind of standard and eliminating intersex traits, you are merrily making money out of fucking sloppy, shoddy work, Take a leaf out of Sam the Skunkman's book - he had one fothe best sativa ines around - Durban Poison, and he abandoned all work with it after much time and effort expended becuase an intersex trait reared it's head and Sam wasn't able to eliminate it - that is the approach of a professional who is dedicated to the beloved herb, by comparison, what you're doing is worse than amateur.

I'll post picks and instructions on my CS process later.

 

[Chiefsmokingbud]

No doubt GHS is playing a dangerous game with their new strains. They're already catching alot of flak over cheese and as reports of the other strains start to come out we'll see. They've already lost my respect on what i've seen on the cheese so far, especially with how they have marketed it and what it actually is

Oh yeah btw, I just found this damning evidence from another site

The Cheese we offer is the feminized R1 version of the original clone from Big Buddha, winner of the High Times Cannabis Cup.
No backcrossing done on it, we just reversed the original winner plant and produced the feminized seeds.
;-)

Ganja is very correct about the variation of an S1. It must be selectively backcrossed. If you don't beleve that just look at GHS's cheese which all they did was s1 the BB cheese(back crossed clone with afganni) then release the seeds. GHS did no backcrossing after the S1 and look at they mess they are in.

 

[Raco]

Doc, couple of points to correct, firstly, chaos theory doesn't come into it, it's all to do with the dna, a female plant that does not have an intersex trait will not produce ANY male offspring if selfed, it simply does not have the required chromosone - it is missing the bit of DNA that would be needed for a male to be spawned and it ain't gonna magic that missing piece out of thin air.



Not true, only if the work is done sloppily is this the case. Go read the writings of Cees over at nomercy.nl, he was the first to make female seeds available for sale years ago and he wasn't sloppy about it - he only used females he had thoroughly stress tested to determine if they are TRUE females or not, by true female, he means one that does no carry an itnersex trait and will NEVER express an intersex trait by producing staminate flowers due to stress, only then, when a True female has been found (and they are hard to find, many lines simply won't have any) he then selfs it using chemicals. It is only by doing things correctly and doing all the rigourous and time consuming testing to find the true females that high quality S1s without hermies, mutations etc. can be produced.

This is why I would never feminise a cut I hadn;t thoroughly tested. Cheese has been as thoroughly tested as any cut I could have laid my hands on, we know it's very stable and won't revert sex under stress, although like True says, she can make the odd staminate flower if allowed to go overripe. The Cheese may not be 100% a true female, but hey, with the resources I have at my disposal, it's the best choice I could have made I reckon.



Whay do you mention Thai? Thai genes are no more lprone to intersex than any others, the only reason we associate Thais with hermies is that the Thai lines that came to the West were usually seeds picked from imported Thai weed and as Sam the Skunkman has explained, the intersex problems we associate with Thai weed are due to centuries of poor farming practices. However, there were/are many Thai and SE Asian lines that do not have an intersex trait, these are usually ones collected in Thailand from small farmers who grow only for local family and friends.

Same story in Mexico, hermies a plenty in Mexican lines, but again, that's due to the centuries of farming, as with Asian sats, there are many Mexican lines without intersex trait.

Look at African sativas, you rarely get any signs of intersex with African sats, this is because they are mostly wild and uncultivated so have not been ruined by man.

Also, please do not call stressing a plant to make it produce staminate flowers 'selfing' it is not, and the seeds will have a fair proportion of intersexed plants, this is not selfing in the sense the term is used to describe intentionally produced female seeds. Soma's rodelization method is bullshit, he says that most females will produce male flowers if left overripe, well yes, many females will, but to make seeds from this method is to exploit a latent intersex trait and ensures that trait is carried onto the progeny which is bad breeding practice indeed and I can't understand why folks have never decried Soma for this.

Dutch Passion and GHS have given feminised seeds a bad name because they have used the chemicals in a lazy way as purely a way to make money, as I said earlier, only TRUE females should be selfed, and those are hard to find, many lines will not have any True females. DP released pretty much their entire catalogue in female form back in the 90s, and that is clear indication that they didn't bother doing any stress testing to find true females, they just sprayed their production mothers to make fast cash. No way would every line in their catalogue have true females. Same thing with GHS, they feminised all their lines too, it covers up their lack of breeding skills and allows them to scam even more cash from people

Now I see Franco selfing cuts with well-known and obvious intersex traits (Chemdog for one) and is going to sell these seeds. We should all be up in arms over this as without outcrossing to a known, proven, stable male and then linebreeding for several gens to select out the intersexed individuals and eliminate that nasty intersex trait, but of corse, that would take a lot of time and money, so Franco and Arjan take the lazy, easy route to the cash and just spray the cuts , colelct the seeds and laugh all the way to the bank. Franco, if you don't know that selfing a cut that prioduces staminate flowers readily is a very bad thing then you need to get out of the breeding game altogether as you haven't got a clue what you're doing, the damage to the gene pool GHS could do by selling intersexed lines has the potential to be immense.

There might be Purple Afghan S1s in time for 2009, I am currently stress testing a PA female, she has had light stress, heat stress, watering stress, rootbinding stress, lots of rough treatment, my technique with this testing is pretty good, I've been doing it for years to test males, you'd be surprised how many males will produce pistils if stressed, you should never breed with a male of this type imho as it is passing on the intersex trait. The cut will get my usual 3 'stress runs' I.E. I will flower three cuts to maturity while subjecting them to immense stresses, only if the cut passesall 3 wihout a single staminate flower appearing will it be used for breeding. You see, I truly do care more about the cannabis genepool than my wallet, so I would never dream of selfing a cut without stress testing it, obviously Franco and Arjan don't share my standards and concerns. Franco, if you self that Chemdog cut you have that chucks bananas readily and sell the S1s you are a total fuckwit who deserves the total and utter contempt of every ganja lover on the plant, while others are working hard to uphold some kind of standard and eliminating intersex traits, you are merrily making money out of fucking sloppy, shoddy work, Take a leaf out of Sam the Skunkman's book - he had one fothe best sativa ines around - Durban Poison, and he abandoned all work with it after much time and effort expended becuase an intersex trait reared it's head and Sam wasn't able to eliminate it - that is the approach of a professional who is dedicated to the beloved herb, by comparison, what you're doing is worse than amateur.

I'll post picks and instructions on my CS process later.

Good post!! I´m with you :wink:

 

[DocLeaf]

Not true, only if the work is done sloppily is this the case. Go read the writings of Cees over at nomercy.nl, he was the first to make female seeds available for sale years ago

Yeah Growdoc used to work with him at No Mercy

Who do you think told us about mutations occurring in feminized seed lines

Whay do you mention Thai? Thai genes are no more lprone to intersex than any others, the only reason we associate Thais with hermies is that the Thai lines that came to the West were usually seeds picked from imported Thai weed and as Sam the Skunkman has explained, the intersex problems we associate with Thai weed are due to centuries of poor farming practices. However, there were/are many Thai and SE Asian lines that do not have an intersex trait, these are usually ones collected in Thailand from small farmers who grow only for local family and friends.

Many thai based genetics descend from bag-seed from extensive cannabis crops,, later crossed into famous lines like N. Haze and Jack Herer, which became the base of many "sativa" lines since.

As do some of the most famous Mexi. and Colombian based seed lines... like 'Diesel',, which also herms and came from bag seed... as did Neville's plants (he was a bag seed dealer if we're not mistaken).

So yeah we agree that poor selection in the past has tainted the gene-pool

Also, please do not call stressing a plant to make it produce staminate flowers 'selfing' it is not, and the seeds will have a fair proportion of intersexed plants, this is not selfing in the sense the term is used to describe intentionally produced female seeds. Soma's rodelization method is bullshit, he says that most females will produce male flowers if left overripe, well yes, many females will, but to make seeds from this method is to exploit a latent intersex trait and ensures that trait is carried onto the progeny which is bad breeding practice indeed and I can't understand why folks have never decried Soma for this.

A self-set seed. ..it's a common horticultural term my man.

It is rare to find male plants in seed from selfed plants. Although hermaphrodites occur frequently in lineage.

It is evident that Franco has used a different approach/strategy towards the male-flower selection in many of his feminized lines... this is the reason why, even as feminized seeds they still carry lots of genetic variation in lineage :wink:

I n I nah care about how the goat is skinny and the cow fat... what the next man does is their business...

by comparison, what you're doing is worse than amateur.

btw you don't know me... and we sure don't do fem. anything polloco

All the best with your fem. cheese mission

peace out

 

[Guest]

It makes my brain hurt to much to read docleaf's posts and try and make sense of them so in future I'm just ignoring him.

Many thai based genetics descend from bag-seed from extensive cannabis crops,, later crossed into famous lines like N. Haze and Jack Herer, which became the base of many "sativa" lines since.

As do some of the most famous Mexi. and Colombian based seed lines... like 'Diesel',, which also herms and came from bag seed... as did Neville's plants (he was a bag seed dealer if we're not mistaken).

I mean, stuff like that is just painful to read as I have to pick it apart and respond, pointing out the incorrect bits, half of it just sounds like bollocks. Diesel being Mexican and Colombian derived? You have no clue what diesel is derived from, no-one does!

It is evident that Franco has used a different approach/strategy towards the male-flower selection in many of his feminized lines... this is the reason why, even as feminized seeds they still carry lots of genetic variation in lineage

What bollocks, I don't know what you're getting at nor care! I'm sick of reading crap like this! It doesn't make sense!

A self-set seed. ..it's a common horticultural term my man.

Cannabis is monoeicous, nearly all other crops grown by man are dioecious, therefore taking examples from other horticulturally grown crops is useless. With a dioecious s[ecies, self-set seeds are very common and quite normal as the plants all have both male (staminate) and female (pistillate) flowers, cannabis, being monoecious, is a different kettle of fish altogether.

 

[ElGato]

Cannabis is monoeicous, nearly all other crops grown by man are dioecious, therefore taking examples from other horticulturally grown crops is useless. With a dioecious s[ecies, self-set seeds are very common and quite normal as the plants all have both male (staminate) and female (pistillate) flowers, cannabis, being monoecious, is a different kettle of fish altogether.

cannabis IS NOT monoeicious bro........it is the ONLY doiecious annual known to man, i think you just got your terminology reversed

but...if youre going to correct somebody then you should have your facts straight as well eh?


but yeah.....the Diesel linage thing, i dont know where anybody got that diesel was colombo or mexi >>>lmao


mj