Vote YES or NO on Prop 19

[kmk420kali]

I thought there were dozens of posts in this thread explaining how polls were bullshit.

I have been listening to Johnny Cash for the last hour...which makes me inclined to just shoot you!! (J/P man...)
ESPECIALLY this Poll here is Bullshit...my guess is, many votes on both sides, have been done by Members through BS Accounts...so they can vote multiple times--
I won't try and guess which side...I'm sure it's both--
The opinions and passions displayed here...are mostly from us Growers/Sellers...because that is what most of us here are-- Medical or not--
The average Stoner tho...I am sure are stoked over this Prop...they have nothing to lose, and everything to gain!! Those are the ppl I am placing my vote for-- I will continue life as I always have--

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Just a response to this. Just sayin. In other words: Your thinking is correct.

I think you're missing my point on purpose.

I'm saying I think that "Yes but wish I was voting on a better bill" would be winning.

Not "Yes I'm not giving a shit about anything else but legalization."

 

[BigBudBill]

No way would I miss your point on purpose. Just medicated. Sorry. I see your point now and agree.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

:friends:

 

[kmk420kali]

I'm saying I think that "Yes but wish I was voting on a better bill" would be winning.

Not "Yes I'm not giving a shit about anything else but legalization."

Prolly more like ppl just clicked the first "Yes" they seen--

 

[mean mr.mustard]

That is a great point.

We're going to vote this in simply because it's the first one we've seen in forever.

I was simply asking people to recognize this fact and chew before they swallow.

Don't know how understood or welcomed it was, but I've certainly been allowed my piece.

 

[onegreenday]

thanks I missed that.

that gives us a 7 % edge.
that's over the margin for error........


but this IS a cannabis friendly site so
that might not be enough for victory..........

You simply forgot to add in the:
CA resident- Yes, but would rather be voting on a better bill

 

[growfr]

I didn't read through every post. But I like the message it is sending. The war on drugs is complete bullshit. Giving people in CA back a bit of their freedom can be contagious.
don't we want to liberate cannabis? I feel that 19 does this. Many people will visit CA just to smoke out. I certainly will.
It is not perfect. It is a step I'm the right direction just like 215 was. CA is a trend-setter. Make it happen and it will spread across America.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I'd love to liberate cannabis!

But the name of the Prop....

 

[subrob]

i know people arent gonna believe me...but i, quite often, make posts i have no recollection of...and that was one of em...log on...see all this new rep...check out my post and see that! haha..oh gooood....i crack myself up...

 

[JJScorpio]

I believe ya Subrob, lol.....

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Glad you got peppered with rep subrob.

Your attitude certainly deserves the utmost respect.

I don't see many people classy enough to put FUCK YOU in their signature.



For everyone else out there...

I hope you vote how you like.

This is changing the landscape of the future either way.

Don't be swayed one way or the other by anyone!

Follow your heart and mark your ballot.

 

[RollmeoneKenobi]

I'm not in Cali, but I hope prop 19 passes. That way I can see MMJ pass here in Tejas come 2013.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Texas will be the last one standing.



I bet the Feds do it before they do.

 

[ZoSo]

The prohibition of weed is archaic. Ignorant and misinformed people are afraid of it.

The rest of us are watching the state of California. For they have the chance of a lifetime.



<-------Can you say no to that?

 

[vta]

Why I Support Legal Marijuana

By George Soros
Source: Wall Street Journal

cannabis California -- Our marijuana laws are clearly doing more harm than good. The criminalization of marijuana did not prevent marijuana from becoming the most widely used illegal substance in the United States and many other countries. But it did result in extensive costs and negative consequences.

Law enforcement agencies today spend many billions of taxpayer dollars annually trying to enforce this unenforceable prohibition. The roughly 750,000 arrests they make each year for possession of small amounts of marijuana represent more than 40% of all drug arrests.

Regulating and taxing marijuana would simultaneously save taxpayers billions of dollars in enforcement and incarceration costs, while providing many billions of dollars in revenue annually. It also would reduce the crime, violence and corruption associated with drug markets, and the violations of civil liberties and human rights that occur when large numbers of otherwise law-abiding citizens are subject to arrest. Police could focus on serious crime instead.

The racial inequities that are part and parcel of marijuana enforcement policies cannot be ignored. African-Americans are no more likely than other Americans to use marijuana but they are three, five or even 10 times more likely—depending on the city—to be arrested for possessing marijuana. I agree with Alice Huffman, president of the California NAACP, when she says that being caught up in the criminal justice system does more harm to young people than marijuana itself. Giving millions of young Americans a permanent drug arrest record that may follow them for life serves no one's interests.

Racial prejudice also helps explain the origins of marijuana prohibition. When California and other U.S. states first decided (between 1915 and 1933) to criminalize marijuana, the principal motivations were not grounded in science or public health but rather in prejudice and discrimination against immigrants from Mexico who reputedly smoked the "killer weed."

Who most benefits from keeping marijuana illegal? The greatest beneficiaries are the major criminal organizations in Mexico and elsewhere that earn billions of dollars annually from this illicit trade—and who would rapidly lose their competitive advantage if marijuana were a legal commodity. Some claim that they would only move into other illicit enterprises, but they are more likely to be weakened by being deprived of the easy profits they can earn with marijuana.

This was just one reason the Latin American Commission on Drugs and Democracy—chaired by three distinguished former presidents, Fernando Henrique Cardoso of Brazil, César Gaviria of Colombia and Ernesto Zedillo of Mexico—included marijuana decriminalization among their recommendations for reforming drug policies in the Americas.

Like many parents and grandparents, I am worried about young people getting into trouble with marijuana and other drugs. The best solution, however, is honest and effective drug education. One survey after another indicates that teenagers have better access than most adults to marijuana—and often other drugs as well—and find it easier to buy marijuana than alcohol. Legalizing marijuana may make it easier for adults to buy marijuana, but it can hardly make it any more accessible to young people. I'd much rather invest in effective education than ineffective arrest and incarceration.

California's Proposition 19, which would legalize the recreational use and small-scale cultivation of marijuana, wouldn't solve all the problems connected with the drug. But it would represent a major step forward, and its deficiencies can be corrected on the basis of experience.

Just as the process of repealing national alcohol prohibition began with individual states repealing their own prohibition laws, so individual states must now take the initiative with respect to repealing marijuana prohibition laws. And just as California provided national leadership in 1996 by becoming the first state to legalize the medical use of marijuana, so it has an opportunity once again to lead the nation.

In many respects, of course, Proposition 19 already is a winner no matter what happens on Election Day. The mere fact of its being on the ballot has elevated and legitimized public discourse about marijuana and marijuana policy in ways I could not have imagined a year ago.

These are the reasons I have decided to support Proposition 19 and invite others to do so.

Mr. Soros is chairman of Soros Fund Management and founder of the Open Society Foundations.

 

[vta]

Prop 19: Internal Poll Shows Majority Support

By YesOn19.com - Monday, October 25 2010

The Yes On 19 campaign today released an internal poll showing that likely voters support the initiative to control and tax marijuana by a margin of 56-41 when presented with an automated questionnaire but are less likely to state their support to live interviewers.

"As the polling shows, there still seems to be somewhat of a social stigma attached to marijuana and the politics surrounding it," said Dan Newman, a political strategist working with the Yes On 19 campaign. "We're confident that when Californians find themselves in the privacy of voting booths on Nov. 2, they will vote to end decades of failed and harmful marijuana policies. Very few people think the current policy is working."

The results affirm earlier suggestions by New York Times analyst Nate Silver, the blog FireDogLake and others identifying a so-called "Reverse Bradley Effect" indicating that voters may be uncomfortable telling strangers how they would vote on controversial policies.

The Yes On 19 internal poll was conducted by EMC Research on October 13-14 and had a total sample size of 1,403 respondents. The margin of error is +/- 2.6 percentage points. The full results can be viewed at: http://www.YesOn19.com/internalpoll

Cont.

 

[vta]

Author: Russ Belville


19 REASONS POT SHOULD BE LEGAL

California's Prop 19 will be the most talked-about ballot initiative in the November election. This measure would make lawful the possession and sharing of one ounce of marijuana outside the home and allow for personal cultivation of a small marijuana garden and possession of its harvest in the home. California cities and counties would be able to opt-in to commercial sales, regulation, and taxation of marijuana. Existing prohibitions against driving under the influence and working under the influence would be maintained and prohibitions against furnishing marijuana to minors would be strengthened.

After almost 100 years of marijuana prohibition in California, marijuana is more popular and accepted than ever. Prohibition has clearly failed. Prop 19 gives us another choice, one that benefits not just those who enjoy the herb, but the entire state of California and ultimately, the nation and the world. Whether you are a regular marijuana user now, an occasional toker back in the day, or you've never touched the stuff, there are many compelling economic, social, public safety, and civil libertarian reasons to support its legalization. Here are nineteen reasons for six distinct groups of Californians to vote Yes on Prop 19:

For the Concerned Parents

1. To make pot more difficult for kids to buy. It might seem

counter-intuitive to some, but illegal marijuana is much easier to acquire than regulated marijuana because weed dealers don't check ID's. Four out of five high school seniors, more than three in five sophomores, and two in five middle schoolers (8th grade) say marijuana is "fairly easy" or "very easy" to get. One third of 16-17-year-olds say marijuana is easiest to buy, not cigarettes, alcohol, or prescription drugs. Two out of five teens say they can get marijuana in a day; almost one in four can get marijuana in an hour. Obviously letting unregulated dealers control the marijuana market is not protecting your kids from access to marijuana. On the other hand, aggressive enforcement of ID carding for minors, combined with public education have led to some of the lowest rates of teen alcohol andtobacco use ever recorded. Prop 19 enacts the same common sense ID carding for marijuana as we use for martinis and Marlboros.

2. To make pot more difficult for kids to sell in

school. Regardless of what regulations we put on marijuana, like alcohol and tobacco, there will be some kids who manage to get a hold of it. But part of what makes marijuana so easy for teens to buy is that they can all find in their high school one of the one million teens nationally who are dealing it. Legal access to marijuana for adults removes the criminal risk markup that makes pot so profitable. After all, when was the last time you heard of a beer dealer in a high school hallway? Prop 19 eliminates the huge profit that entices youngsters to sell marijuana.

3. To make pot less available for transfer from young

adults. Governor Schwarzenegger signed a decriminalization bill that makes it an infraction, not a crime, to possess and share of up to one ounce of marijuana between anyone 18 and older. Prop 19 adds a stiff punishment of up to six months in jail and a $1,000 fine for any adult aged 21 or older who shares marijuana with anyone aged 18-20, just like we punish adults who furnish alcohol to those under legal age. When it's tougher for those 18-20 to get marijuana, it's tougher for them to share it friends under 18. Prop 19 treats marijuana like alcohol as a privilege for age 21 and older.

For the Law and Order Crowd

4. To decrease the profits of violent criminals. Prohibited

marijuana brings with it the same problems as prohibited alcohol did gangs and violence. We don't see bootleggers shooting up the streets over whiskey distribution any more. We don't see clandestine wine grape vineyards sprouting up in national forests. Providing California's adults a legal way to grow or buy their own marijuana means violent drug gangs lose customers. No, these gangsters won't stop being gangsters, but they will become gangsters with lower budgets and fewer associates. Prop 19 brings the dangerous underground marijuana market into a safe, regulated, inspected, and taxed legal market.

5. To increase public trust of law enforcement. Currently more

than 1 in 10 adult Californians smoke pot every year. It is unknown how many of these 2.9 million annual users fail to report crimes for fear of police interviewing them and discovering the marijuana they possess or grow. Prohibition also creates fear and paranoia that lingers long after the joint is smoked for these adults whenever they see police, fear that even talking to police could end in a ticket or arrest. Prop 19 allows otherwise law-abiding cannabis consumers to trust and help law enforcement.

6. To prioritize our law enforcement. It is estimated that

including the arrest, jail, prison, court, and marijuana eradication costs, California spends $200 million per year on marijuana law enforcement. Then there is the time and space we can't afford in our overworked court system and overcrowded prisons. Prop 19 alleviates much of those problems while maintaining the current laws against irresponsible use of marijuana, such as driving under the influence and giving marijuana to kids. Prop 19 focuses police priorities away from adults who enjoy marijuana responsibly and onto real crime.

For the Medical Marijuana Patients

7. To protect your medical collectives. Over the fourteen years

of medical marijuana in California we've seen numerous raids on medical marijuana collectives, or "dispensaries". Many are conducted by state or local authorities, some by DEA but always with the cooperation and assistance of local law enforcement. Prop 19 forbids state and local law enforcement from seizing, attempting to seize, or even threatening to seize lawfully cultivated marijuana medical or personal. Prop 19 makes it impossible for local law enforcement to assist federal prosecution of medical marijuana collectives.

8. To provide easier access to cheaper medicine. Currently a

patient has to see a doctor and pay for a recommendation to use medical marijuana. The patient has to carry around that recommendation to prove medical use to the police. The patient can designate a caregiver to grow for them or buy from a dispensary at grossly inflated prices. After Prop 19, you can use marijuana simply because you decide to, no doctors, no notes. Any number of your friends could be growing marijuana for you. There may even be Prop 19 stores that open in your city. Prop 19 will lower marijuana prices and provide greater access to patients without need for permission slips.

9. To allow you to grow a lot of marijuana. For adults who

decide not to get Prop 215 recommendations, you will be allowed under Prop 19 to cultivate a plot of marijuana not exceeding 25 square feet. The DEA has concluded that the average yield of cannabis bud per square foot is about one-half ounce that's over three quarters of a pound from a 5'x5' garden. Prop 19 allows you to keep the results of your harvests; the one ounce limitation only applies to taking your marijuana out of your residence. Prop 19 does not impose arbitrary plant and possession limits at your home grow site.

For the Business Community

10. To create much-needed jobs. California's marijuana market is

already the largest cash crop in the state at an estimated $14 billion annually. This estimate only includes the marijuana itself and not all the ancillary industries a legal pot market would bring, from accessories to fashion, from tourism to retail, and all the incredible markets for marijuana's non-drug cousin, industrial hemp. Prop 19 creates new job and business opportunities and opens the door for industrial use of hemp.

11. To bring in much-needed tax revenue. It's true that Prop 19

allows localities to opt-in and regulate commercial cannabis sales and some places may not opt-in, reaping no marijuana taxes. But marijuana for personal use will still be legal and many of the ancillary industries could flourish in a "dry county" (e.g., marijuana bed'n'breakfast) and that would produce tax revenue. Prop 19 brings in more tax revenue from marijuana than we're bringing in now.

12. To bring fairness to workplace drug testing. Prop 19

maintains an employer's existing right to address marijuana impairment in the workplace nobody gets to go to work stoned any more than they get to go to work drunk. But Prop 19 frees employers from the burden of disciplining, firing, or not hiring safe, productive workers for their personal use of marijuana away from the job site. Prop 19 treats employees who use cannabis responsibly in their private life like those employees who drink alcohol.

For the Latinos and African-Americans

13. To end the disproportionate arrest and harassment of people

of color. African-Americans in California's 25 largest counties are arrested at rates two-to-four times greater than their white counterparts, despite whites using marijuana at greater rates. In the 25 largest cities, the arrest disparity ranges from twice-to-thirteen times the rates for whites. Arrest rates for Latinos also exceed the rates for whites. Prop 19 removes the probable cause for law enforcement to harass people of color for merely possessing marijuana.

14. To end street-level dealing of marijuana. Marijuana's

profitability and scarcity create the open-air street-corner dealing that plagues many communities of color and utilizes juveniles to perform the transporting and selling of small amounts of pot. The profit enriches gangs and leads to violent confrontations over turf. Prop 19 will reduce the cost of marijuana and provide a regulated place to buy it that will undercut the street dealers.

15. To strike back at the murderous drug gangs in Mexico. Many

Latino Californians worry for the safety of friends and family back in Mexico. Residents in northern border towns face violence and murder rates usually only found in war zones. Law abiding Mexicans don't know if their law enforcement and government officials are corrupted by the wealthy gangs. Prop 19 is the first step in nationwide legalization that can be the only solution to Mexico's drug war violence.

For the People of All Political Ideologies

16. To energize and connect with the progressive Democratic

base. Prop 19 is overwhelmingly supported by the young, progressive, liberal voters that are the base of support for Democratic politicians. Many of these voters are not as enthusiastic about the Democrats as they were in 2008 when they turned out in record numbers. Prop 19's passage forces the Democratic Party to recognize the get-out-the-vote potential of the marijuana legalization issue for future elections.

17. To build a new, younger Republican base on conservative

principles. The Republican Party faces a decline in its numbers due to the aging of its core base of white male supporters. Younger, libertarian-leaning, "Tea Party" activists are calling for a return to conservative principles of states' rights, less government, personal responsibility, and cutting wasteful government spending. Prop 19 affirms the right of states to set their own policies and begins to dismantle the most ineffective government program of all time the War on Drugs.

18. To show the traditional political parties they aren't

responding to the people. Candidates for the highest offices in California from both major political parties refuse to endorse marijuana legalization even though more than half the citizens have used marijuana and support its legalization. Prop 19 reminds the major parties that they are the servants of the people and the people's will is sovereign.

For the Future

19. To change the world. Prop 19 is not just another California

initiative. Prop 19 is being watched in all fifty states and throughout the hemisphere as the "shot heard round the world" in ending the prohibition of marijuana.

It's up to you, California, to take that one small step for your state that will be one giant leap for the nation. Vote Yes on Prop 19!

 

[vta]

New Poll: Stealth Voters Pushing Prop 19 To Win 56-41

Author
David Downs
Source
East Bay Express


Are there voters who intend to pass Prop 19, but not tell anyone about it? The results of a new poll by Prop 19's backers say thousands of such voters might be saying “no” when asked, but voting "yes" in private. Prop 19 is winning 56 to 41 in an automated poll of 1,043 respondents, according to a new poll by SurveyUSA. Commissioned by the Yes on 19 campaign, the poll differs from the recent LA Times/USC Poll that found the tax and regulate measure trailing by a wide margin. The difference is the live pollster. Yes on 19 says seventy years of cannabis prohibition is making people careful around live polling officials.

"As the polling shows, there still seems to be somewhat of a social stigma attached to marijuana and the politics surrounding it," said Dan Newman, a political strategist working with the Yes On 19 campaign. "We're confident that when Californians find themselves in the privacy of voting booths on Nov. 2, they will vote to end decades of failed and harmful marijuana policies. Very few people think the current policy is working."

Liberal blogger Josh Marshall, of the popular national blog Talking Points Memo is calling it a "reverse Bradley effect," a reference to the phenomenon of voters telling pollsters that they'll vote a certain way but then don't.

Legalization Nation heard of a private gathering over the weekend where the only person who was voting against the measure grew pot as income.

Given that kids are turning their parents in after D.A.R.E. class, workers can get fired for off the job pot use, and stoners are getting executed at gunpoint during pot raids, might there be a stigma against outing yourself as a Prop 19 voter?

You tell us.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

oh man, only 8 more days.... getting antsy