After I get some experience with flat gardening I plan on trying a v-scrog (tube-style). I really don't want to wait, but there's no since in biting off too much at once, I've never actually even grown anything, just been lurking, preparing. What happened to the dude that was trying to bring back tubescroggin last year? Did he just fall off or something?
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vertical growing.........maxing out your light!
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alphacat
Member
re: dude trying to bring back tube scroggin' - I think he surfaced briefly on that other site (with an 'H' and a 'G') then disappeared from there too. Don't quote me on that though.
And yeah, if you're just starting out it's definitely a good idea to get a feel for it first, then incrementally work in some new stuff. It ain't that hard though, just takes some patience.
And yeah, if you're just starting out it's definitely a good idea to get a feel for it first, then incrementally work in some new stuff. It ain't that hard though, just takes some patience.
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Im thinkin about tryin something in a cab (likely a mills pride or a clone of one) until I get more room. I'd like to devote an entire room, or at least a walk-in closet, but not for a while, at least a year or two.
I wanna try with a couple of 250watters in a column in cooltubes. What d'ya think would be the correct diameter tube to use? Also, I've been trying to find a way around having to grow a ton of plants, as plantcount is important. This is all very preliminary, so I'm open to suggestions.
I wanna try with a couple of 250watters in a column in cooltubes. What d'ya think would be the correct diameter tube to use? Also, I've been trying to find a way around having to grow a ton of plants, as plantcount is important. This is all very preliminary, so I'm open to suggestions.
alphacat
Member
Diameter - without knowing the diameter of the cooltube-enclosed lights, it's hard to say offhand; however, any rules that apply to HID lights as far as distance will also apply here. When the plants are young, at least 8" up to about 12" away from the light; when they're a little bigger (like a foot or so) then 6 - 8" should work fine. Anybody else who might have more experience is welcome to speak up here though, just to provide a more balanced perspective. Based on this you're going to need at least a couple feet diameter, up to maybe 30" - too much more is wasted space, which is potentially wasted light too.
Scrog's good for keeping your count low, but with the understanding that it also means longer finish times. What's your target yield and turnaround schedule, if I may ask?
Scrog's good for keeping your count low, but with the understanding that it also means longer finish times. What's your target yield and turnaround schedule, if I may ask?
I have a similar plan. The idea is to make a 3' wide 4' tall tunnel out of chicken wire, and another tunnel 4' wide and 4' tall tunnel to go around it. A HID bulb is hung dead center in the inside tunnel, and the plants are trained to grow up between the tunnels. I want to do it in halves however, so then I can open it up and work on the inside!
alphacat
Member
Hinged halves are a very, very good idea Bobblehead. Will this be a 400w light you're using? You may be able to tighten up the inner chickenwire 'tunnel' to bring the plants closer to the light; I believe you'll get better results with higher lumens per foot then lower with more area (the area inside a larger tunnel). Even if the plants are well trained to stay inside the 1' inter-tunnel area, you're losing light penetration dramatically within the first 6", so all of the outer growth will suffer.bobblehead said:
Alternately, two 400w lights on top of each other vertically could help offset and contribute to a better yield. I'd still think about tightening up the inter-tunnel space though... here's a quick sketch of what I mean:
Again tho, this is just my humble opinion. Anybody with more ideas or experience is totally welcome to pipe up here.
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I figure if I smoke about 2-3 oz. a month, I need to be able to harvest enough to not run out. If there's extra I'll make hash. I'd rather have something perpetual, but I'm a n00b and that's a little advanced, so that can wait if it has to. If I could harvest once a month tho, that'd be probably the best compromise between yield and plant numbers. Just having enough to reduce dependency on other venues would be great tho.alphacat said:
alphacat
Member
2-3 oz'ers a month, yowza - I take it you're a med user. In that case, and given the parameters of few plants/high yields needed you're almost not gonna have any choice but to do a perpetual cycle. Doing perp. isn't that hard though really, just involves more time investment overall and probably a few runs to get the timing right and the general hang of it.
Bear in mind w/ the perpetual thing is that clones count the same as full grown plants - if you've got your eye on yr. state's mandatory minimum, that's definitely going to factor into it. Fewer clones & moms = longer veg. times, period, and you're going to need to grow 'em bigger for sure. Once a month may not happen unless/until you really tweak the sh*t outta your setup. Once every couple months is probably more realistic.
Based on all that I'd also recommend going with the fastest Indica dom. and the highest wattage light you can get as well.
Bear in mind w/ the perpetual thing is that clones count the same as full grown plants - if you've got your eye on yr. state's mandatory minimum, that's definitely going to factor into it. Fewer clones & moms = longer veg. times, period, and you're going to need to grow 'em bigger for sure. Once a month may not happen unless/until you really tweak the sh*t outta your setup. Once every couple months is probably more realistic.
Based on all that I'd also recommend going with the fastest Indica dom. and the highest wattage light
Well, 2-3ozs is a rough estimate, including smoking out friends and whatnot. I actually smoke about half to 2/3 of that so more like 1-2 at most. I care about plant count and I don't really mind having time between harvests. The cooltubes would most likely be around 6 inches. Eventually I wouldn't be opposed to using co2 to up the yield. I figure after a harvest or two I could invest a little more money in some better gear. The first few times I'm not really worried about making those numbers, I'll still be able to supplement with the locals if necessary (it's not NECESSARY, but you know what I mean).
Not a med user, just fond of gravity bongs....
Not a med user, just fond of gravity bongs....
Thanks for your opinion, it's a good one. However, the tunnel is so big because I want to use a 1000w hps on top with a 400 mh at the bottom. This is if I don't buy any more lights.alphacat said:
I'm thinking about buying more lights and doing a whole room of vertical lights. 4-400w in the corners and 1000w in the middle. I mean that's maxing out your lighting! Then, instead of a tunnel for the plant, I'll need them for the lights!
alphacat
Member
I'd tell my friends to BYO if I was smokin' them out with over an oz. a month besides what I was smoking, but then that's just me. :friends: Gravity bongs... i.e. the FUBAR-express! Heh. If you're trying to keep your count down to say three, that doesn't leave too much room for error. Unless you've got easy access to clones, that boils down [in a perp. setup] to one mom, and two cuttings in different parts of the cycle (one in veg & one in flower). You'll be growing 'em relatively big - definitely scrog-worthy - but if something goes wrong and, say, one of them herms out or gets sick on ya the whole schedule is shot. However, some folks have pulled off a semi-perpetual grow with just 2 plants (one mom, one cutting that's flowered on the early side) so it's not impossible.Siddartha said:
Bobblehead - damn but you're an ambitious S.O.B.!
I like that. Props to you for thinking big.
Whatever either/all of you wind up doing make sure to let us know how it goes!
lol, it's not ALWAYS like that
As for count, I'd be willing to go as high as maybe 5-6 not including moms and clones. Also, I was thinking instead of tubes of screen in a cab doing like a 3-sided box and hanging the bulb in the center EDIT: the 3 sides being left, right, and rear, leaving the bottom, top and front open. This would allow me an open face to work with the canopy and the light. The lights would be in cool tubes with sufficient cooling. Let the ideas rip!
As for count, I'd be willing to go as high as maybe 5-6 not including moms and clones. Also, I was thinking instead of tubes of screen in a cab doing like a 3-sided box and hanging the bulb in the center EDIT: the 3 sides being left, right, and rear, leaving the bottom, top and front open. This would allow me an open face to work with the canopy and the light. The lights would be in cool tubes with sufficient cooling. Let the ideas rip!
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Put at least one of those sides on wheels, so you can create a triangle and use all of your light! That way you can pull a side away and still work on your plants. Also, by putting it on wheels, you can rotate your plants for even buds...
That's a good idea, bobble, now we just need to calculate the maximum length we can make the sides, still have enough room in the center for budz and light/cooltube/exhaust duct, and still fit into cab. Also, I think if we find a combo that will fit we should compare the screen areas to make sure its at least as large.
Keep em comin!!
Keep em comin!!
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=83870-444-WS48MP&lpage=none
^^^ A possible cab (dimensionally close, at least). I'd like to have more depth, but I can't til I get a room. Owell....
^^^ A possible cab (dimensionally close, at least). I'd like to have more depth, but I can't til I get a room. Owell....
After a lot of brainstorming, and several posts, I have finally come up with a rather simple, and theoretically successful form of vertical growing. Here's what I'm going to do:
4 book cases, 3 shelves each. The bottom shelf is for reservoirs, and the top 2 shelves are for the plants. I plan on using a recirculating shallow water culture (swc). However if the heat is too much, I'm going to change it to E&F. The one book case that is pulled out will be on wheels so that I can get inside to work, while maximizing light use the rest of the time. I'll probably put a screen on the front of the cases to scrog the plants and spread them out, along with giving them the support they'll need! There will also be a fan on the floor to cool the light and provide air flow.
Now, as for the size of book cases to be used! First you must consider the size of your light! a 400w will throw light about 1ft, so I would keep a 1ft radius around your bulb, and 2ft of vertical space. A 1000w will throw light 2ft, so a 2ft radius around the bulb should be suitable, along with prolly 4ft vertical space.
This is getting kinda long, huh?
Anyway, If you're using a 400w, I would use 2x2 book cases, and 1000w 4x4 book cases. 600w will be right in the middle, with a 3x3.
In another month or two I'll be building my new grow, and I will write up a thread with this method.
It's kinda like a horizontal scrog, however instead of having a deep canopy, you have divided it into 4 different layers, and each layer gets equal lighting.
G
Guest
I dident read all the way through this thread but northern farmer has a thread on theater vertical light grow that is the bomb. great results with a great yield. im deff. going to do my little 5ft x 5ft x 8 ft high bloom in this 3 sided maner as soon aS time permites. back in the late 1980s we all grew with vert lighting and i think i like it better for several resons
alphacat
Member
Bobblehead, nice update on the Box of Green! I like this idea. Here's a link to a much more primitive incarnation from an Italian site:
http://www.mariuana.it/scrog/scrog6.html
http://www.mariuana.it/scrog/scrog6.html
alphacat said:
Very nice alphacat! Just the kind of thing this thread needs! The pictures speak for themselves, but I also speak spanish and french, which helps with interpreting italian. Box di verde!
