TIMER FOR 1000 WATT HPS THAT WONT BURN HOUSE DOWN!?

[NiteTiger]

I know you didn't ask me this question, but plugging it in to a "heavy duty" surge protector is just adding more points for arcing to occur. So I think that madpenguin would say don't do it.

I understand your trying to build a fireproof box, but I think your just adding more things to go wrong personally.

Yeah, I had many surge protectors burn out on me, more than timers, as a matter of fact. Good call!

 

[ShroomDr]

can someone comment on this intermatic

Digital Appliance Timer DT620CH
Features and Benefits

* Turns lights and appliances on and off automatically
* Auto adjusts to sunrise/sunset time for dusk/dawn setting
* Automatic Daylight Saving Time option
* Variable ON/OFF setting option for added security
* Control lamps, appliances, electronics, heaters, air conditioners
* Up to 28 ON/OFF settings
* Sunrise, sunset, daily, weekday, weekend options
* Battery backup w/low battery indicator
* Convenient on/off indicator light
* Easy set up and operation
* Large easy to read display
* Displays current date and time
* 2 timed receptacles
* Grounded plug and receptacles

Electrical Ratings

* 15 Amps, 1800 Watts Inductive
* 500 Watts Tungsten
* 125 Volts AC, 60 Hz
* 1/3 HP

 

[madpenguin]

The CAP module is fine. It's just that the receptacles are one of two things:

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ACS-39/SNAP-IN-NEMA-15-5-RECEPTACLE/-/1.html

or

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/ACS-31/15-AMP-GROUNDED-OUTLET/-/1.html

I have several of both sitting on my work bench. The contacts are relatively cheap. Compare those little cheap plastic things with a NEMA 5-20R and there is no debate as to which is less likely to have a meltdown.

If you really want to build one, I have a light controller link in my sig. All you need to do is scale it WAY down. One SPST relay, one timer, one 5-20R, a #12 AWG SJO cord and a housing to hold everything. Would cost you the same or less than the CAP and there would be no way anything would melt down due to cheap contacts. Eventually, after a few years, the relay might fail at worst but the same can be said of the CAP module.

If I were to make one, since I'm on a dremel kick it would seem, I'd try to back mount the timer and receptacle to the front plate of a 6x6x4 enclosure. Pop rivet them instead of screwing them to the front plate. You would still have enough room to mount the relay to the bottom. One cord coming out to plug into the wall and one 6x6x4 enclosure...

 

[renz]

ok, RENZ I understand your drawing now. one thing with it tho it it looks like you have a duble male ended cord going from one outlet on the timer and then the otehr end into the wall outlet, where as a timer would have a male plug for power and then 2 other outlets.

Heh... yeah it's just a quick block diagram don't take it literally.

An actual schematic would at the very least include a fuse.

 

[renz]

can someone comment on this intermatic

Digital Appliance Timer DT620CH
Features and Benefits

* Turns lights and appliances on and off automatically
* Auto adjusts to sunrise/sunset time for dusk/dawn setting
* Automatic Daylight Saving Time option
* Variable ON/OFF setting option for added security
* Control lamps, appliances, electronics, heaters, air conditioners
* Up to 28 ON/OFF settings
* Sunrise, sunset, daily, weekday, weekend options
* Battery backup w/low battery indicator
* Convenient on/off indicator light
* Easy set up and operation
* Large easy to read display
* Displays current date and time
* 2 timed receptacles
* Grounded plug and receptacles

Electrical Ratings

* 15 Amps, 1800 Watts Inductive
* 500 Watts Tungsten
* 125 Volts AC, 60 Hz
* 1/3 HP

not for 1000W HID.

1 hp = 745.699872 watts

google knows. 1/3 hp is 248 watts. a ballast is an inductive load, so it looks like a motor to the timer.

so that's 1/4 the needed minimum rating for a 1000W ballast.

1800W inductive might be a typo, it might actually be 1800W with a resistive load. I'm pretty sure tungsten bulbs are coil filaments, so very fine wire in very tight coils, resistive and inductive, and has 2x the rating of the pure inductive (HP) rating, so it makes sense to me that its a typo.

 

[ShroomDr]

TY +rep 4u

the sticker on the back of the timer(DT620CH) says:

15A(1800W) Resistive, 12A inductive, 8.3A (1000W) Tungsten, 1/3HP, 120v, 60hz.


I think ive settled on going 2(600w) vertical anyway.

 

[mjr99]

This thread has got me a little scared. Not gonna lie. So im thinking about placing some sort of metal cover over my outlets that hold my timers. What do you guys think? Im thinking they might contain the sparks/fire long enough for the breaker to flip. Google searched but i couldnt find any big enough to go around a timer.

 

[Kahl]

No shit, i never thought that one of my timers could up and burst into flames. great. I'm not running a large amount of watts but still.....makes me nervous

 

[Shcrews]

cmon really? no reason for this thread to be so long, it's a fucking $20 timer that TS needs

i already posted a link.. so did a few others.


one light is not that big a draw.

 

[manitu]

Unless it is a purely resistive load, the watts/volts=amps is an incomplete equation and can severaly underestimate the actual current draw of an inductive load. by as much as 50% .

High power factor magnetic ballasts have a power factor of about .90
low power factor magnetic ballasts can have a power factor as low as .50
electronic ballasts generally have a power factor of .95-.99

The complete equation is:

watts/volts/power factor=amps
volts x amps x power factor = watts
watts/amps/power factor=volts

and it should be called Watt's law, as there is no ohm in it.

U=IR - Ohm's law
P=UI - a combination of Ohms law and Joule's law

With Ohm's law , by the way , Using the symbol "R" isn't accurate
. Ohm didn't mention resistance at all. the original quote is "for a conductor in a given state, the electromotive force is proportional to the current produced."
"R" symbolizes the properties of the "conductor in a given state"

But Avenger or Rez , my AC knowledge is a bit rusty, I work with DC mostly ..

Would you say the Inductive rating , or the motor Hp rating is closest to the requirement of a magnetic HID ballast?
Most timers I can find for cheap is rated 230V 16A (R) - 2A (I) - 1/3Hp
The inductive rating gives 460W max , while the Hp rating says 250W max..

.manitu

 

[Avenger]

So long as the ballast is used as it is designed, with the proper lamp, then the inductive rating is what should be used.

A/C Electric motor current draw and power factor are variable depending on operating conditions, hence the increased head room on circuit component rating.

 

[manitu]

So long as the ballast is used as it is designed, with the proper lamp, then the inductive rating is what should be used.

Hmm... The weird thing is , some brands work some don't , and this is with 400W HPS ballasts..

Another weird thing.. I once had 1 single 400W and one 2X400W ballast (home made) , but the single ballast was the one who fried timers.
Both ran on timers as described above.

So It seems to me that the constant inductive load isn't what fries the timers..
The double ballast was wired with L1 (P) and L2 (N) the oposite way on each ballast , I wonder if that would make any difference.

Or could the condensator be the problem?

.manitu

 

[renz]

Another weird thing.. I once had 1 single 400W and one 2X400W ballast (home made) , but the single ballast was the one who fried timers.

Technically, even the single 400W inductive load is over the 1/3HP rating of the timer.

Most electronic devices are built with headroom, so they will do more than their rating. Because of tolerances in manufacturing, there is most like differences when it comes to capabilities.

In general, it is very bad to run things against their absolute maximum limits. And just because one thing is rated at 100W and will do 200W just fine, you should never assume that another identical unit will do 200W without problems.

Building things for more current costs money, so in this sense the consumer gets fucked.

Building things to perform consistently also costs money, so things must be built with headroom in order to make sure the lower performance samples still conform to the marketing spec. While this can work out in favor of the consumer, if you just assume everything can do way more than what it's rated for from isolated anecdotal evidence, you'll get fucked.

 

[manitu]

So long as the ballast is used as it is designed, with the proper lamp, then the inductive rating is what should be used.

A/C Electric motor current draw and power factor are variable depending on operating conditions, hence the increased head room on circuit component rating.

Technically, even the single 400W inductive load is over the 1/3HP rating of the timer.

My point exactly..
It' just that the single ballast destroyed every low-price timer I ever tried , the double ballast only destroyed one or two of the really crappy ones .. Just makes me wonder.. The ballasts were identical by the way , just two in one box , and one single. Same internals in all of them. Just oposite phases on the two in the same box.

My experimenting with timers was done in a controlled manner several years ago , to avoid any fire-hasard.
Today I over-engineer EVERYTHING! I've helped set up grows for a number of friends , and I Would never compromise their safety.
today , I buy one of these,

It basicaly a subpanel in a box , comes with a breaker and a ground fault switch. Just add a DIN rail timer and a contactor , maybe another breaker if you run many lights..

Here , you can even get them pre-built fram any self-respecting electrician shop. Just say it's for your cottage build site , and you need floodlights on a timer , and outlets for your power-tools.
.manitu

 

[JeanTonerre]

ahahah my friend, you add fun with the timer too ? now i just got a new type of timer, a big one part man that shit kick ass, lol, '' PowerBar X Timer X 1000Watt '' man i just burn it all , and fusion it to one piece, i fuked up the shit. Now I have a new timer, and I plug less thing on it lol.

 

[RugerBaby]

this thread should get stickied...

 

[slackx]

wattage means nothing it's all about amperage.

after reading th emany useless threads on timers. Im Looking for EXACTLY the timmer im about to decribe. I need a DIGITAL timer that PLUGS into a outlet that can handle a 1000 watt HPS light. The only good thing ive read in the threads about waht timers to buy is that even tho 90% of all the timers on the market are rated for 1500 watts ect, they will fucking burn out anyways running 1000 watts on a continous cycle like 18 hours on every day. So from some one running 1000 watts or more on a digital timer, what are you using or if you know of one where can I get a absolute fail proof, wont burn your shit down digital plug in wall timer. IM not fucking around with electrical shit so Im absolutely not going to wire a heavy duty one in.m I dont care if I have to order it fvrom europe and it cost $500 I want a timer that is plug n play ready thats digital and will not burn out and overload like the other timer out their.

 

[brownstormy]

cmon really? no reason for this thread to be so long, it's a fucking $20 timer that TS needs

i already posted a link.. so did a few others.


one light is not that big a draw.

I think you may be missing the point. I don't think that timer you posted is technically safe. Even for one light.
I had an even more heavy duty one that doesn't fit the bill.
They may work, but that doesn't mean they won't burst into flames on you at some point.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to take chances with my home.

 

[Shcrews]

I think you may be missing the point. I don't think that timer you posted is technically safe. Even for one light.
I had an even more heavy duty one that doesn't fit the bill.
They may work, but that doesn't mean they won't burst into flames on you at some point.
I don't know about you, but I don't want to take chances with my home.

i've never seen it happen, nor heard of it.

 

[Mr_Pat]

You need somthing from these guys http://grow-gps.com/products/lighting-control-power-expansion/

HID-2 HID Lighting Control