The Official NBA Discussion

[lockehead]

If you dont live in Cali and havent watched Kobe play most of his career those 3pt FG% numbers mean nothing....Kobe was pulling up like a 6-10 feet behind the 3 point arch and draining all day....when he went on his mutliple 60+ point games he was pulling up from distances no one has ever drained with consistency.... Jordan never had range like Kobe...so yes this translates into best shooter ever...no one can drain from his range ..

Lets not even get into the fact Jordan had zero competition when he won...lets be honest...Lakers with Magic were done with their Run....Pistons were over their Run....Bulls went nutts against teams like the Jazz in the finals! Give me a break....todays competiton shits hard on that early 90's era....

So Kobe being able to shoot a 30 foot 3 pointer makes him better than Jordan?

If you discount Jordans seasons playing for the bullets/wizards, his career FG % is above 50% easy.

I think we can all agree on this: it is easier to score in todays league than when Jordan was playing. 3 second defensive violations, no handchecking, restricted area, soft contact fouls. With this in mind, Kobe still averages much lower PPG and FG%. Even Phil Jackson said Jordan would average 45PPG with today's rules.

Then you have to look at the other side of the court: the defense. #2 all time steals leader, DPOY, led league in steals 3 seasons

Theres no question Kobe is a great player and is a legend in his own right, but if youre gonna call him the best to ever play the game, at the least, youd have to go through Jordan first, which we havent seen from Kobe.

 

[OsWiZzLe]

I'm 100% confident about Kobe being the best shooter of all time...how many rings do any of those scrubs you mentioned have ? the two of them put togethor and you get 1 whole ring wow.... If Kobe wasnt one of the best team players of all time..how do you explain his apperance in the last 3 NBA Finals? Dont front dude..if you live in Canada there is no way in hell you watched all of this games .... his range wasnt short lived...he still has it....he is without a doubt Mr Clutch...who else today do you want to shoot the ball when the game is on the line???? Choke artist like LeBron? Dont you remember the Olympics?? Kobe Dominated that too

 

[OsWiZzLe]

Jordan had one of the best NBA Defenders and Rebounders of all time for 3 of those titles...aka Dennis Rodman...and Scottie Pippen was a Defensive Monster str8 lock you down mode.... dont discount the insane outside 3 pt shooters like Kerr and Paxon or the 3 7ft centers he had...sounds like a much better supporting cast then the Kobe/Gasol show

 

[lockehead]

so youre basing your opinion of Kobe being the #1 shooter of all time off of confidence. haha Good day

 

[lockehead]

If you wanna talk about whose a better team thats another story. But as far as Kobe vs Jordan goes, theres no question about it.

 

[NateDizz]

What do rings have to do with being a great shooter?? Nothing.

Whatever though, I'm not even going to bother with your posts anymore. I come here to try and have intelligent discussion and you're not capable of providing it. You're right, I'm wrong and that's all there is to it. You're not worth talking about basketball with. You don't love the game or even seem to understand anything about it - you're just a delusional Laker's fan.

Peace.

 

[NateDizz]

Oh and props to lockehead for actually providing some discussion and backing it up with tangible points.

 

[OsWiZzLe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_2sEx1Vmak


Kobe Sniping

 

[OsWiZzLe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7iN2gsm67M&feature=related

 

[jagdog3]

Kobe's fg% aside,who would u have take the last shot in a big game Mj or Kobe?I have nothing but praise for MJ who is for sure arguably the best ever.But with a last shot situation i'll take Kobe every day.Second would be Larry Bird,then MJ.The NBA has changed alot since MJ was in his prime,zone defenses which probably would have made things more difficult for MJ.Also todays NBA players are far more athletic and talented,which would have also had a negative impact on MJ's final numbers.

 

[HighDesertJoe]

Kobe's fg% aside,who would u have take the last shot in a big game Mj or Kobe?I have nothing but praise for MJ who is for sure arguably the best ever.But with a last shot situation i'll take Kobe every day.Second would be Larry Bird,then MJ.The NBA has changed alot since MJ was in his prime,zone defenses which probably would have made things more difficult for MJ.Also todays NBA players are far more athletic and talented,which would have also had a negative impact on MJ's final numbers.

Hell the life time fan of the CELTIC'S that I am I think I'd let MJ take the last shot for BOSTON cause I know Mr Bird will get the OFF rebound and put in the game winner..

 

[jagdog3]

I wonder who averaged the most fg attemps per game Kobe or MJ? Wouldn't be suprised if it was MJ.Texas Green i don't understand how u can call Kobe a hog ball,hell if he wanted to hog the ball he would easily lead the league in scoring every year.The lakers have won five titles with kobe so maybe u need a hog ball on your team!!Also if phil jackson is so miserable coaching Kobe why has he stayed so long?You guys can't stand the fact that the lakers have owned your teams ass the last few years...U want to make everybody out to be a dumbass if they don't join in on your little boston celtic circle jerk.....

 

[NateDizz]

The NBA has changed alot since MJ was in his prime,zone defenses which probably would have made things more difficult for MJ.Also todays NBA players are far more athletic and talented,which would have also had a negative impact on MJ's final numbers.

Look at this post made earlier by lockehead.....

"I think we can all agree on this: it is easier to score in todays league than when Jordan was playing. 3 second defensive violations, no handchecking, restricted area, soft contact fouls. With this in mind, Kobe still averages much lower PPG and FG%. Even Phil Jackson said Jordan would average 45PPG with today's rules."

This is the truth.

You couldn't be more wrong jagdog. MJ would have far exceeded his stats if he played in the league today, no question.



All you guys really need to read Bill Simmons' book if you really want to understand alot of things in basketball, in terms of how rules changes and style changes would affect different players from different eras if they were to play today because from what I see now alot of you got everything backwards. "It's harder to score today, the league is more deep today than it was in Jordan's era, etc" - you are all completely and totally wrong - it's not even debatable.

You all need to read Bill's book period - there's soooooo much content in there (700+ pages) and it's the greatest most informative and comprehensive book ever written about the sport. Read that book and then come back and lets have a discussion.

 

[lockehead]

Kobe's fg% aside,who would u have take the last shot in a big game Mj or Kobe?I have nothing but praise for MJ who is for sure arguably the best ever.But with a last shot situation i'll take Kobe every day.Second would be Larry Bird,then MJ.The NBA has changed alot since MJ was in his prime,zone defenses which probably would have made things more difficult for MJ.Also todays NBA players are far more athletic and talented,which would have also had a negative impact on MJ's final numbers.

In today's league? Jordan without a doubt. Kobe is a great shotmaker, no doubt, but if it was Jordan with todays rules, itd be like giving him a free shot.

As for the zone defense, the main thing about a zone defense is to stop penetration to the basket and force players to take outside shots. Im not sure how that would affect Jordan as his midrange jumper/fadeaway is probably the best we've seen. Hes pretty close to Kobe from beyond the arc as well.

as far as athleticism goes, i dont see anything in today's league that points to a more athletic league. They do appear bigger and more muscular, but also appear to have more body fat.

Keep in mind that Pre-95, which were arguably Jordan's most dominant years, there was handchecking allowed. Defenders are allowed to put their hands on the player's body. Theyre literally within arms distance at any given time, and they can better challenge the offensive player much closer and with force. With that in mind, Jordan was still as dominant as he was. Thats why i say with todays rules, itd be like giving him an open shot, and with Jordan being Jordan id count on him on taking that last shot.

 

[jagdog3]

N.D your wrong,you think outside shooting was M.J's stong suit?What do you think a zone defense's purpose is?M.J was a freak athlete with a great work ethic and killer attitude.He did develope good outside shot on into his career,but he is far from being a great shooter,he was a scorer,big difference.M.J. did most of his damage by driving and creating shots,thats where he buttered his bread.I can't believe you guys don't think the league is more talented and athletic than twenty or so years ago.How can you be more muscular and fat at the same time lockehead?The difference is as obvious as night and day as far as the athleticism goes.

 

[texas_green]

I wonder who averaged the most fg attemps per game Kobe or MJ? Wouldn't be suprised if it was MJ.Texas Green i don't understand how u can call Kobe a hog ball,hell if he wanted to hog the ball he would easily lead the league in scoring every year.The lakers have won five titles with kobe so maybe u need a hog ball on your team!!Also if phil jackson is so miserable coaching Kobe why has he stayed so long?You guys can't stand the fact that the lakers have owned your teams ass the last few years...U want to make everybody out to be a dumbass if they don't join in on your little boston celtic circle jerk.....

lol if you paid any attention at all i am a spurs fan pal. i only said that the celt's will win because they are the deepest team in the league.

so before you go off and get butt hurt, learn how to read clown

and my team has been just as dominant year in and year out for this past decade as the Fakers, so kiss my ass pal. 4 championships in the past 10 years, western conference finals several times, playoffs every single year.

 

[jagdog3]

No need in trying to be a bad ass behind that key board......Pal...lol...OK your a spurs fan i stand corrected...Pal...

 

[lockehead]

N.D your wrong,you think outside shooting was M.J's stong suit?What do you think a zone defense's purpose is?M.J was a freak athlete with a great work ethic and killer attitude.He did develope good outside shot on into his career,but he is far from being a great shooter,he was a scorer,big difference.M.J. did most of his damage by driving and creating shots,thats where he buttered his bread.I can't believe you guys don't think the league is more talented and athletic than twenty or so years ago.How can you be more muscular and fat at the same time lockehead?The difference is as obvious as night and day as far as the athleticism goes.

He was not a great shooter? Are you serious? His post up and face up game was virtually unguardable. In my own opinion i think Kobe's post game/faceup game is a poor mans version of Jordan's, slower, lower, less decisive, less options, less effective in general. BUT that doesnt mean its not effective, just pales in comparison to Jordan's

As for the athleticism, im basing from what i see. Players from the past were a lot more lithe and lean, meaning athletic. Today i see more players with a lot of muscle mass, but with a pretty thick buffer of fat as well. It may all be due to the state of the game today, as its more controlled and of a slower tempo than it was in the past.

As far as talent goes, the rule changes has skewed the game towards the offensive side, so its hard to judge. Same as on defense.

 

[jagdog3]

Jordan has to be one of the top three ever imo maybe the best,but i still don't think of him as great shooter.Not trying to start anything by disagreeing with you that's just my opinion.I've been following the Lakers and NBA since the late seventies and it just seems like todays NBA players are more athleticly gifted imo.

 

[NateDizz]

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