The Landrace Team

[PandoraSeedBank]

Hi,
after reading this thread I decided not to buy from TLT. I do not want to support such a place and certainly not for that price. However, I am looking for regular Punto Rojo seeds. And all of the good options seem to be gone - the Cannabiogen seeds are not around any more. Then there is that tucoltivo.net or similar but checking on them returned even worse comments. A low price does not help if you get bird seed or other crappy stuff. Are there any alternatives to TLT to find Punto Rojos - regular ones. Preferrably sent from within the EU or the US?

Hello, I have Punto Rojo Cannabiogen x Oldtimers Haze called Artemis.

Artemis ( Punto Rojo X OTH)

Good night everyone, how are you? Meet Artemis. It is a hybrid between Cannabiogen Punto Rojo and Old Timers Haze. From several packets of Punto Rojo seeds, the best females that were found were selected. The most vigorous, the longest flowering, the best smell and best effect. They got...

www.icmag.com

Unfortunately I have closed until October due to few sales and high expenses to be able to sell.

In October I will open again and send my varieties to Mandala Seeds who will ship to the US again.
Since they have temporarily stopped shipping and I only ship to some countries in Europe.

 

[Senior Grower]

Thanks, @PandoraSeedBank. I am actually looking for the "pure" strain of Punto Rojo and Mango Biche. Not a hybrid. Because I would like to have as pure as possible beans for my own experiments. Also, I am interested in the taste of the Colombian pure strains.

 

[PandoraSeedBank]

Thanks, @PandoraSeedBank. I am actually looking for the "pure" strain of Punto Rojo and Mango Biche. Not a hybrid. Because I would like to have as pure as possible beans for my own experiments. Also, I am interested in the taste of the Colombian pure strains.

I understand your point of view.
Just a clarification, oldtimer haze from what I have seen myself and the genetic analyzes in phylos is pure Colombian.
Then it would be a hybrid of two Colombians.
Old timers haze is wilder than Punto Rojo and older. Old timers haze gives it back that old blood and returns it to how it was before.

I wish you luck in your search and if not you can always buy Oldtimers Haze or Artemis

 

[Janborrego]

They asked me for free Panama Red seeds back a few years ago. I said go to Snowhigh and buy them like I did. Not good.

The results from my grows have been been good. Most of what I hear from others on their finished product is good. They have so many strains you are rolling the dice. Not all of them are going to be great or even good.

I am done buying from them but will not tell others to do the same. RSC has about the best reputation on ethics and quality of seeds, along with replacing their seeds if they fail to germinate.

If you are in the states I use Bootleg seeds .com just remove the spaces. They have a lot of interesting crosses mostly with skunk number1. They also are having a sale all year long. Buy one seed pack get one seed pack. The reg photos are 20 seeds for 10 bucks. The fems are 5 seeds for 25 bucks. I was very happy with all my purchases so far. You can pick the seeds or you can let them pick. I have not been disappointed. The King Kandy I planted Jan 22 they are in like 6th week of flower. They are fems the pack had 6 seeds all 6 germinated and the buds are loaded. So heave in fact A few branches have snapped off on a windy day. Shipping is 12.00 but you get your seeds in a priority box so they arrive safe and sound. I am very happy I found this seed bank. They have awesome beans.

 

[Rgd]

I understand your point of view.
Just a clarification, oldtimer haze from what I have seen myself and the genetic analyzes in phylos is pure Colombian.
Then it would be a hybrid of two Colombians.
Old timers haze is wilder than Punto Rojo and older. Old timers haze gives it back that old blood and returns it to how it was before.

I wish you luck in your search and if not you can always buy Oldtimers Haze or Artemis

I found OTH to be good but slightly[wld] hybridized haze that gave more good plants than OHZ

but OHZ were skinnier way way harder to and grow generally more potent[and sedating]

however I liked OT1for the more up high...and way easier to grow I liked all of them ...

and punta roja’s I have grown are as wild and skinny /sparse as they come..

 

[elchischas]

Thanks, @PandoraSeedBank. I am actually looking for the "pure" strain of Punto Rojo and Mango Biche. Not a hybrid. Because I would like to have as pure as possible beans for my own experiments. Also, I am interested in the taste of the Colombian pure strains.

I got pure Mangobiche seeds straight from Santander Mountains.
Send me a PM

 

[Senior Grower]

Thanks, @elchischas. I can't send you a PM yet. Will try on Sunday, rules say after 7 days I believe. Dunno if you can send me PM, though.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

P.S. - I had to include this bit about sativa seed prices in general. In the US here I see prices for clones and hype strains ALL the time. These long flower sativas... nobody in the US wants to grow them. If people do, they're hobby growers who are like me and want to try it out. These seed companies are charging prices for long flower sativas which surpass modern hybrids. They all want to charge 'big American prices' to the rest of the world who can't afford our dumb prices. It's silly to me that modern hybrids have changed the scene so much that a plant which only offers yields of 450g outdoors sativa buds is twice or three times as expensive as a modern hybrid which will yield 1200g+ outdoors AND finish 8 weeks sooner...

Fascinating and well informed post.

Seeds are generally overpriced.

However I can understand what they're asking for for these genetics because they're rare.

As long as they're selling what they say they are, it's ok with me, to a point of course.

I remember 20 some years ago buying seeds from Nirvana because they were €20 per packet, and for €100 you could get 5 strains, which suited me for the year.

However even other US seed companies routinely charge $50 or $100 for a pack.

 

[Senior Grower]

I don't have a problem paying "serious" money for excellent quality. A yield of much less than the super-duper hybrids does not scare me either. The reputation of a seller is important to me, though. As, back in the 80's, Sensi Seeds was one of my favorites. I heard that they could not quite keep the high level. Still, I never felt cheated by them, so far. But they are not into landraces.

 

[crunkyeah]

@TanzanianMagic - thanks for the kind words!

one thing i would like to mention is that price is a very subjective thing. when it comes to companies selling their wares customers rarely ever set the price; the market sets the lowest price, typically. the valuation of the wares is only shown through sales figures, and those will be unknown for a private company like TLT.

i know not every region's cultivars are well renowned but i can say i have purchased a few varieties from TLT now (Lagkitan, Sumatran Banda Aceh, and Double Scorpion). i will say every cultivar i've purchased from them has exceeded my expectations. genetically speaking, the value i've ascertained from TLT has been tenfold the value they've received from me. everyone is in business to make a living, so it's not surprising to see wares match their expectations. ultimately it's the hands of the grower who sets the bar, not TLT's silly pricing.

in every instance i've been impressed by the plants that come from their seed. are they expensive? yep. is it worth? also yep.

i have kilos of seed from them, and i only paid around $1100 with TLT in my lifetime. not only have i recouped my value by transferring it into seed form, i have been able to enjoy the very pure effects from these classic sativas. in the value proposition i have some out massively ahead because the plants themselves have outperformed all expectations.

long story short... a fool can purchase an expensive cultivar and still fumble it. a seasoned grower can take a cheap cultivar and pull out the best phenos and breeding plants. learning the game is part of the process.

 

[Rastafarout]

I think you missing the point … it’s about honesty and transparency ..ETHICS

And the making money off the backs of people’s goodwill …not to mention bio piracy !
And then the cherry on top, the prices and the greed amongst the smoke and mirrors

 

[Senior Grower]

I'll second @Rastafarout. I still believe in ethics, too. That is why I avoid a lot of modern companies - apart from the Cannabusiness. I just don't want to spend my money at places known to be ethically more than dubious. Some people may disagree with me. As there are way too many outfits in business nowadays which treat their workforce badly, outsource to child labor countries without any need but greed and much more.

Well, if I have a chance to buy from a better place, I will.

 

[crunkyeah]

the tricky thing is we have no idea of the complete situation. what's ethical to one may be unethical to another. generally i agree i would rather not give money to liars or terrorists. some of the methods that TLT has sourced seeds and photos is very suspicious but in the end if they've been the only company in the world to be able to source some of these seeds... what is the value of the companies part? it all comes down to economics..

i know it would cost me a lot more money to get my passport into all of these countries (and risk my life in many), and then to travel there and find seeds, and bring them back.... TLT is a lot cheaper option. if ethics are a big deal for you then i understand, and respect that decision.

it's a little random but i've also paid for a couple of other well-known seed companies' offerings that are quite pricey but i did a lot of due diligence to make sure i got what i was looking for. similarly i've made lots of seed and enjoyed all the flowers. life is either glass half-empty or half-full. your attitude is the best one so regardless of others what you do is what matters.

 

[endgegner]

I think you missing the point … it’s about honesty and transparency ..ETHICS

And the making money off the backs of people’s goodwill …not to mention bio piracy !
And then the cherry on top, the prices and the greed amongst the smoke and mirrors

The thing is, they may even sell the wrong genetics as something else, if they already behave like this.
Right now, they seem to be the only ones with pure Colombian genetics, but who says, that is not just another landrace, some Thai for example?

 

[Rastafarout]

That may be true but ethics ethically have universal rules
Like honesty, integrity knowing the right from the wrong
So it’s not really tricky those are some basic ground rules
And in most cases they are not taking any risks at all …
Also the only “company” in the world I doubt that ,
you can also source 90% of what they have yourself , sitting where you are right now …

 

[Senior Grower]

I fully understand what you're saying @crunkyeah . Ethics are great but sometimes you will ultimately bend your own values a bit ... like me very rarely buying from Amazon But I always try to avoid those companies if I have a chance.

As others have said: if a company shows dubious ethics in one field - here it would be not mentioning sources, getting and begging for free seeds from people in forums and then selling them or freshly grown from them for a huge premium - then it is hard for me to believe they would have better ethics wrt reliability which strain you get etc. It may be so, nevertheless. And I appreciate your post, @crunkyeah

 

[Hmong]

It's not just watering, it's transplanting, it's making clones, maintaining mothers, cleaning, photographing daily, getting fresh seeds every once in a while, evaluating and testing new varieties... And all this indoors, which produces fewer seeds than outdoors.

exactly, but people don't know that
all they see, is pics on the internet

Seeds are generally overpriced.

generally, not at all
it's because you are paying retail

about TLT, I like their website a lot, the webdesign.
let's ignore that it's all pirated, the marketing is obviously good, as guys here have biten
never ordered myself, because I always found it shady that there are no prices.
could only speculate, my guess was that it might be 100€ for 100, but what I've read here blew my mind.

guys?

you can also source 90% of what they have yourself , sitting where you are right now …

there are so many approachable people here (not me)
who have everything, you just gotta get your reports going, gain trust and vibe.

 

[crunkyeah]

ah yes the bait and switch...verifying a strain's authenticity... as a customer who can't travel to said countries.. it's impossible anyways. why bother?? i can't verify authenticity from the farmer just like i can't verify from TLT. in the end i grow the plants and like them or i don't like them. there's really no reason to pull an ethical or moral viewpoint into this discussion. this is business. it's not supposed to make people feel better; it's supposed to make revenue.

That may be true but ethics ethically have universal rules

in my private studies of legal proceedings in less developed countries i can say my studies show exactly the opposite. there is no defined set of rules for anyone. many religions exist with different belief structures and they all value things differently. in the realm of public commerce there are thousands of examples where everyone gets treated differently. i don't mean to be confrontational i'm just merely trying to expand your awareness. most of the 'good' we aim to see in the public is us just projecting our values onto them. many people do not hold the same values you do. it doesn't make you better or them worse. it simply is.

Also the only “company” in the world I doubt that ,
you can also source 90% of what they have yourself , sitting where you are right now …

i'll bite. here's an example - the Philippines (death penalty there). to my knowledge there are only 2 companies with landrace cultivars from the Philippines. you have Khalifa Genetics with 1 offering (Kibungan) and you have TLT with like 4 offerings? if you could produce another company's name that also offers Pilipino genetics i'd be happy to look at it.

as for the second statement... if you want to sit there and think that go ahead. there's not a single hobby grower who has the time, energy, or resources to source 145 unique landrace cultivars. 145 cultivars would be 90% of the offerings they have. to think that the company of TLT has scoured the globe and made all these amazing landraces available for anyone who can purchase them... it's miraculous in my eyes. the amount of sheer work that must have been put in to acquire all these genetics over the course of 5-6 years... show me ANYONE with similar results...

regardless of their moral compass TLT has offered a service not seen in the cannabis seed industry. is there some gray area? absolutely! is it our place to judge them? no... there's competent authorities for that... who are we to judge? if you must judge them you do so with your pocket book. you either buy their seeds or you don't. there's no moral dilemma here.

 

[53grayeyes]

 

[Rastafarout]

@crunkyeah yet here you are “judging my awareness”
And saying you don’t want to be confrontational..
in my private studies I found you could lead a horse to the water .. but it’s up to horse to drink
I think you need to do some more research…it seems you’re reading it but not comprehending!