Thai vs Thai and neighbours, test comparison grow

[Thcvhunter]

Wow, thats brilliant about cloning late in flower to find stability vs instability
Thank you

 

[funkyhorse]

This year I am trying for the first time to keep my males outdoors and cancelled so far the indoors which will eventually turn into just vegetative room during winter time, the new greenhouse allows for all year growing and I am finding out the varieties I like grow much better outdoors
So for me since I just make a few seed for this time and now, thinking on this same year or next only, outdoor testing and growing males is very helpful because indoors you dont know how they will perform outdoors

I had 2 New Caledonia males and they were the first males to grow on real soil. 3 meter males
One of them was hermie, he made seed from Zamal pollen. I succeeded to save 10 mature seed before the fauna attacked the males and ate the seed. The reason I didnt use these males pollen on other varieties is because it is the first variety local fauna chooses to attack this year and I need to babysit them a lot, landrace resistance for this variety is low, the females are big producers

I have 2 Northern Thai 2008 males
One so far only showed one sex, male. He is still in veg like all her sisters
The variegated male is intersex, he makes a couple of female flowers and he is also very early. He is flowering and throwing the first pollen from the end of february. I am not sure I will have pollen from this guy if I dont clone him and keep cloning or in veg. I dont want to bring them indoors because this line intersex too easy indoors so I will probably clone outdoors and hope to be able to make a few seed with this guy
I am testing 13 plants from his progeny from 3 different sisters, hopefully another male will sex

As expected, another Thaidelica is intersex
This one is the attacked one which recovered and was also cloned twice. Mom and cuts are gone. So far 5 out of 10 intersex. I have 2 Thaidelicas on soil which are the most advanced and 3 Thaidelicas on 20 liter pots which hardly have a few pistils. These are 3,5 meter tall plants and growing
I am afraid a 20 liter pot is too small for this strain and they need much bigger legs

 

[funkyhorse]

Last days of march and second stage of sexing is beginning
From first stage I have
Northern Thailand P1 cuts: 5 girls, 1 boy, one intersex variegated boy and one still unsexed
Northern Thai P2 made with the intersex variegated boy: 11 plants showed first pistils, 2 unsexed and this one showing first pistils just appeared male eggs and got culled. I regretted it later, I should have sent it to the pollen room. Next ones I will move and not cull. Very impressive hollow stem, almost like bamboo. The most hollow of all plants since I am looking at this trait
This is Northern Thai girl 5 x Northern Thai boy 1, I expect more coming

I hope Northern Thai boy 2 which seems firm sexually so far will bring more sexual diversity in the progeny
From Mong Hsat I have 1 girl and 2 boys
Thai Ace: 8 girls 5 boys 2 unsexed 1 girl turned boy and one boy making pistils and seed and this is just the beginning. According to Thaidelica, I expect 50% hermaphroditism in this line. I dont mind the intersex, I do mind the price of these seeds. For this kind of genetics, prices are outrageously expensive. You need at least 2 years in order to grow enough plants to see if this is worth it or not.

@herbgreen This Thai Ace stock has nothing to do with THH
Cant compare vigour of the thais both Northern Thai 2008 or Thai Ace with THH, cant compare sexual stability of the thai landraces with THH at all.
About high I dont know yet this is just first stage of sexing, now second stage is seeing which ones will remain sexually firm till the end of the grow
THH is probably the best indoor weed you can grow if you can control humidity but outdoors here it inexorably rots, and the hybrids it makes rot as well. After growing many strains carrying the tag "thai", I am only interested in the landraces that breed true.
I am not interested in polyhybrid contaminated landraces as I have seen carrying the thai tag, the high is not as good and have a lot of munchies
This lucky Thai Haze keeper made with Ohz and Northern Thai 08 hermie dont rot in humid environment.


Too much hatred. Too much egotrip
If you have a good grow it is always the breeder's skill and if you have a bad grow it is always the grower's fault and never the degraded garbage breeders sell
When people are happy if your grow is not succesful this means a symptom of decadence, people smoking bad quality weed. With happy uplifting weed in real life it was never like this shitshow going on

I expect this grow to contain the best quality weed I can source commercially. If anything decent is kept today, it is not available. And after seeing all this bullshit egotrip show, you dont want to grow someone else's seed because there are stupid emotional attachments to it I dont need. I just need the true breeding pure races and you can keep all the hype, egotrip and your attached emotions you guys breed into your seeds to yourselves

No wonder cannabis sativa has gone to shit
seed prices today are according to the level of the ego of the breeder
I bought a collection of seeds in 2019, many strains, mainly indica hashplants they call "sativas"
Today I could sell this same collection at x3 or x4 prices
Something is really flawed in all the canna business, numbers are clear bullshit
wtf@making x 4 profit in less than 4 years on a collection never intended to be an investment? This is a balloon and it will burst on everybody's face

 

[funkyhorse]

Final numbers on N thai 2008
3 boys, 2 of them have shown a couple of pistils and one boy firm
5 girls, one of them very late flowering, Chiang Rai pheno
From the P2 batch done with the variegated boy male 1 , all 14 plants showed pistils and 2 of them grow male pollen. 12 girls left, I wonder how many more go intersex
This new one is in the male room to see how it develops, this time I didnt cull

The male 1 progeny is giving Bangkok phenos mostly and the progeny from 3 different girls look similar
Thai ace has similar features. Plants look very similar but some of them are Bangkok phenos and others are very late flowering Chiang Rai phenos. So far a total of 10 girls from Thai Ace Seeds
I will start pollinizing probably next week

 

[funkyhorse]

Ace Thai girls are all similar, very vigorous and have very long branches with very long internodes

This is the fastest Ace Thai girl at this stage. The latest ones are just starting to show first pistils one month after autumm equinox, same with Mong Hsat and the latest flowering Northern Thai 2008

5 Ace Thai firm males, they are all in soil. The 2 intersex are on pots

Northern Thailand 2008 seems to be a pure race. Progeny is flowering similar buds
Flowering is different for the plants. The fastest phenos are good for Bangkok, they start flowering after 12/12 on equinox. But the latest ones like Mong Hsat and some of Ace's Thai start flowering one month later when light hours are down to 11
Northern Thai 3

This is Northern Thai 4

Northern Thai 4 left and daughter Northern Thai 4 x Northern Thai variegated boy right

Northern Thai variegated boy kept in the same 5 liter pot since last winter, I didnt renew soil and didnt feed at all, just plain water, he is 3 meter tall

Northern Thai boy 3 is the latest flowering of the bunch. He has no pollen yet and is 3 meters tall as well and seems to be firm. I did first pollination round with the faster firm male 2 on the faster girls for Bangkok phenos and some Double Thai with the fastest Thai girl

Same like Mong Hsat boys, they dont have pollen yet and the lucky girl just made a few pistils, they only start flowering when daylight hours reach 11 or less. They all seem to be sexually firm

 

[Mtn. Nectar]

great stuff funky……appreciate sharing the sat’s……along with Mac/others….

ganj on…..

 

[Rgd]

It is not even good as birdfood because birds love fresh and viable seed.

well said

did not find any issues except with Thai Stick.

i had some nanners at the end.on the " from mad Mac “..thai stick...

all in all it grew a good plant..decent resin too

the high was not really my thing....next

thanks for it

 

[funkyhorse]

well said




i had some nanners at the end.on the " from mad Mac “..thai stick...

all in all it grew a good plant..decent resin too

the high was not really my thing....next

thanks for it

Hi there Rgd
One thing I saw around here is breeders get pissed off when you post your true experience
The only breeder so far that didnt get angry when I tell the truth is MadMac, I hope more people follow his attitude about this because commenting on strains is like commenting on politics, breeders seem to get too passionate or emotional about it and lose focus
In any case I am just a fan of truth. If you dont like the truth, then solve all your ego problems with the truth, dont project it on me

I dont know what you grew Rgd, but except the nanner part my experience growing Koh Chang/Thai Stick x Ohz is similar to yours. If you grow this kind of stock indoors, I believe it will go intersex.
I am finding outdoor weed has good chances of going intersex indoors and viceversa
Another thing I see is when growing South East Asians in my outdoor environment which is fresh water basin and high humidity is they make male balls when they go intersex

The vigour of that cross is amazing, same like the rest of SEA plants I am trying
Resin was superb. This strain and many more others are telling me that resin is not related with the high and the high is probably on the pistils. Resin allows for extractions but I am not interested in extractions so I dont know
The high was not really my thing, I still have 2 jars full if you want some.

In any case Mad Mac is an alchimist and not a magician.
If the stock sourced in Thailand is not good to start with, you are not going to turn it magically into trippy weed. In my case I would prefer landrace x landrace pure so we can check the Koh Chang and the "Thai Stick" pure if its worth growing or not
Clearly not the high of the weed I sourced in both Koh Changs, big and small

So next is this grow, hope to find better.
This is my Thai Haze keeper which has been better on first winter grow and the best of all hazes I grew so far. I dont know how grains of paradise smell, but this plant has the most amazing smells I ever had in cannabis. It comes from MadMac selected girl from more than 20 plants, the famous 5%
I grew a lot of progeny from this girl, and when I gave up it appeared again in some lucky experimental grow with the seed made with a Northern Thailand 2008 girl that went intersex indoors in just 24 hours
I wonder if it will make the same smell and flowering as the winter grow
Thai Haze

I touched it with Northern Thai male 2 pollen for a BX, hope to get a few seeds from this

I want to make BX to N Thai with these 2 as well:
Northern Thai 6 x Laos Mango
It is very productive, surprisingly it has short internodes and a lot of flowering sites. I believe the Mango haze in it has done the huge productivity trick. I am curious about this girl
Up there is starting to make buds, but the lower branches just have a couple of pistils. It is much longer flowering than I predicted/expected, a real surprise

This is N Thai BX (N thai 6 x CG72) x N Thai variegated boy
This is gonna be my first double BX. Clearly CG72 changed the flowering style of N Thai.

Mong Hsat girls just showing first pistils. It flowers different from the sisters across the border but also very long flowering

 

[Donald Mallard]

Hi funky
Can I ask at what stages of flowering have you found hermies,?
Just the beginning? Just the end ? Or at any and all stages?
The latter has been my experience over the years , that they can show up anytime along the way but I note some others didn't see that , how about you?

 

[funkyhorse]

Gday Wally
So far from this round I found at the beginning but still they have some time to arrive to mid flowering
I have found in different lines at the beginning and at mid flowering. The only time it happened in the end of flowering was one Purple Haze x Meao Thai throwing bananas and not throwing male balls
With these genetics you need to watch the plants every day, I didnt find any pattern for intersex traits so far except that most males grow a pistil or two first

The only pattern I am seeing and I dont really understand it, why from the same line some plants trigger flowering at 12 hours of light and others need the light to go down to 11 hours in order to start. Is this related to them being probably mountain varities?
I wonder if this trait is related to potency as well

 

[funkyhorse]

2 of the Northern Thai 4 x Northern Thai went intersex, one of them was in a vegbox so it doesnt seem related to pot size

This is the trait I found in all southeast asians before turning intersex. When I see this flowering, I look very closely for intersex in that plant. Only one plant doing this flowering finnished without turning intersex so far

 

[funkyhorse]

These are very busy days, many plants are coming down at the same time
It is the first time I have pressure harvesting, I got trimming help from neighbours
First Thaidelica came down
Thaidelica is very difficult to grow in a 20 liter pot. All fan leaves yellow
In a vegbox is much happier
Very tall strain, not for indoors
When other thais are just in the first phase of flowering, this hybrid is finnished
I am curious about how the pure Thai Ace compares with Thaidelica, which finnishes this faster pheno probably 2 months earlier than the pure ones
Thaidelica

 

[funkyhorse]

This is difficult and tricky for me
@Donald Mallard I hope you can help
I grew your Laos 2 years ago my first time outdoors
This year I sprouted 5 seed and the result is very different from the first time, which makes me doubt if it is Laos or I wrongly labelled them
I sprouted them a little bit early around Xmas and I kept them in 0,4 liter pots all I could for more than a month. This made them rootbound and they showed sex a little bit after up pottting a month before autumm equinox
I had 4 males and 1 girl. 3 boys were sexually firm and 1 boy grew a few pistils which made seed. I culled them because I am not sure if they are Laos or not

The difference is huge with the first time also on the environment. First year they grew in a much colder weather, they made vegetative indoors and got outdoors 3 weeks before autumm equinox. Plants had fat leaves and had long internodes

This year much hotter weather, there were days of 45C during summer. Summer was tropical here, seasons are changing at this part of the world. Before there were 4 marked seasons, now it is only 2: summer and winter
Leaves are a lot thinner. And tighter internodes. Productivity is much higher too

So I am not sure if it is the right genetics behaving differently because of the much hotter weather or because it is something else and I labelled it wrong. I saw a huge difference between the outdoor and indoor grow in the bud formation

This budding seems like Laos but I am not sure if it is
The girl had a few pistils since february but she really started flowering lately in mid april
I hope you can help, I never grew in tropical weather I dont know how it should look
Hot weather makes leaves thinner on sativas?
Laos girl(?)

 

[Donald Mallard]

sounds like a totally opposite time of year ,
so for sure the results will be different funky ,
the plants react to that ,
all i can tell is she looks like a south east asain sativa , at best ,
at worst ,, sativa , hahaha ..
the pistil growth looks familiar though , so maybe u are correct with your labels ...

 

[Hmong]

Laos girl(?)

most likely

Hot weather makes leaves thinner on sativas?

humidity and heat, yes
indoors, not so thin

 

[flower~power]

If you have a good grow it is always the breeder's skill and if you have a bad grow it is always the grower's fault and never the degraded garbage breeders sell

Lol…that’s so true!

 

[flower~power]

You can also have a great grow and then realize that you grew garbage and that’s still true because of the egos involved I won’t grow anything from anybody who’s an asshole

 

[funkyhorse]

This is the thai haze keeper which is MadMac best ohz girl x Northern thai girl that went intersex indoors
It is a serendipity
It has the smells of girl 1 and is the most productive of the hazes, the reason is explained here in this post
But it was just one plant out of 8 doing this iterations, the rest grew like normal hazes

this is a epic post you see
Imagine starting with everything in a hermi pre evolution to male and female
Monoecious (botany))
Hermaphrodite_(botany)

Cannabis Temporal range: Early Miocene - Present 19.6–0 Ma
Scientific classification
Species[1]
Common hemp
Kingdom:	Plantae
Clade:	Tracheophytes
Clade:	Angiosperms
Clade:	Eudicots
Clade:	Rosids
Order:	Rosales
Family:	Cannabaceae
Genus:	Cannabis L.
Cannabis sativa L. Cannabis indica Lam. Cannabis ruderalis Janisch

Go to hops and evolve from there ? Where was the old landrace better highs lost culling what ?

Hermaphroditism promotes mate diversity in flowering plants​

View attachment 18839640
National Institutes of Health (.gov)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC6852098





by DA Christopher · 2019 · Cited by 13 — Here we show that hermaphroditism nearly doubles mate diversity, and discuss the implications for evolutionary processes in flowering plant ...

Conclusions​

Dual sex roles contribute to a near doubling of mate diversity in our experimental population of Mimulus ringens. This finding may help explain the maintenance of hermaphroditism under conditions that would otherwise favor the evolution of separate sexes.
Keywords: hermaphrodite, male fitness, mate diversity, mating network, mating portfolio, multiple paternity, paternity, pollination, selfing, sexual system

View attachment 18839644
I like to think of it as a fractal tree and culling diminishes the genetic diversity of possibilities for
very unique possiblities... I like what N. said when he spoke along the lines of he didnt like indica x indica cause there was no fizz... think of the nl lines 1 - 10 or the diversity in the OP haze... plenty of fizz to play with
sativa x indica like @Raco monkey haze... the best teachers dont tell you how to do things they teach you how to find things for yourself.

If 96% of Angiosperms are hermi look at the roots thats where the most diversity is

Cannabis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Cannabis is an annual, dioecious, flowering herb.

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All known strains of Cannabis are wind-pollinated[13] and the fruit is an achene.[14] Most strains of Cannabis are short day plants,[13] with the possible exception of C. sativa subsp. sativa var. spontanea (= C. ruderalis), which is commonly described as "auto-flowering" and may be day-neutral.

Cannabis is predominantly dioecious,[13][15] having imperfect flowers, with staminate "male" and pistillate "female" flowers occurring on separate plants.[16] "At a very early period the Chinese recognized the Cannabis plant as dioecious",[17] and the (c. 3rd century BCE) Erya dictionary defined xi 枲 "male Cannabis" and fu 莩 (or ju 苴) "female Cannabis".[18] Male flowers are normally borne on loose panicles, and female flowers are borne on racemes.[19]

Many monoecious varieties have also been described,[20] in which individual plants bear both male and female flowers.[21] (Although monoecious plants are often referred to as "hermaphrodites", true hermaphrodites – which are less common in Cannabis – bear staminate and pistillate structures together on individual flowers, whereas monoecious plants bear male and female flowers at different locations on the same plant.) Subdioecy (the occurrence of monoecious individuals and dioecious individuals within the same population) is widespread.[22][23][24] Many populations have been described as sexually labile.[25][26][27]

As a result of intensive selection in cultivation, Cannabis exhibits many sexual phenotypes that can be described in terms of the ratio of female to male flowers occurring in the individual, or typical in the cultivar.[28] Dioecious varieties are preferred for drug production, where the fruits (produced by female flowers) are used. Dioecious varieties are also preferred for textile fiber production, whereas monoecious varieties are preferred for pulp and paper production. It has been suggested that the presence of monoecy can be used to differentiate licit crops of monoecious hemp from illicit drug crops,[22] but sativa strains often produce monoecious individuals, which is possibly as a result of inbreeding.

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(Although monoecious plants are often referred to as "hermaphrodites", true hermaphrodites – which are less common in Cannabis – bear staminate and pistillate structures together on individual flowers, whereas monoecious plants bear male and female flowers at different locations on the same plant.)


Huge thanks for sharing those examples of these types in the previous post
Very amazing things
male and female from same bract
as well as seperate sex on different branches nice examples of differentiation

I hope it can be seen, the plant makes triangle shaped buds because of the iteration explained by acespicoli and it is also the only plant I found with the same amazing smells as the mother
I am doing with this the opposite of what MadMac does, I am backcrossing it to Northern Thailand instead of haze with the males that didnt make her to avoid incest, I am curious about the result what will make
This plant is from cut, I am keeping since last winter. It is as fast as THH. I dont understand how come this is much faster than both parents

Here is the update on Thai Ace

Thai

nice plants @Keif Cake , i think they are going to fill up very nicely with time. i have a very small space and i started making knots (1 loop, not too tight) in my stretchy sativa plants. it works quite well, as it lowers and spreads/fills the canopy and keeps a 'main cola'. i will post some...

www.icmag.com

 

[funkyhorse]

This is the update on Northern Thai 2008
I have 5 girls P1 and 11 girls P2
P1 girls are all from cuts I am keeping since the last winter so it probably makes them grow faster
The P2 girls are all from seed done last winter
Now I am making P2 x P1 father. How should the progeny be called, P2.5?
These are all lower bud shots
This is N Thai 2008 girl 1

Girl 3 is posted in the Thai Ace update link in post above
Girl 4

Girl 5

Girl 8 is the longest flowering one, the 11 hour photoperiod pheno together with N thai male 3. The rest are 12 hour photoperiod Bangkok pheno

These are the P2, all done with the same N Thai male 1 variegated and intersex. From 14 plants, 11 girls so far and 3 intersex showing first as girls and then turning into males
N Thai 2008 girl 1 x N thai boy

N Thai girl 4 x N Thai boy

And these are different plants from the girl 5 x N thai variegated boy

 

[funkyhorse]

Northern Thai P2
Out of 4 plants, 3 of the Northern Thai girl 4 x Northern Thai variegated male went intersex
Seeing the progeny of the variegated male I decided to just make few more seeds because he still produces firm girls and use the other 2 males a lot more hoping they will make pure males
This is the last one yesterday
Plant started growing those weird flowers so I took her out of the greenhouse for a very close inspection
I am seeing this

And then I see this I dont like

I found it, bottom of the plant

Good news is I will be smoking thai again much sooner than expected
I miss thai weed since my last thai bud was finished. I hope this year I will have enough Thai weed until next harvest next year