Tea critisism please??

[OrganicOzarks]

Switch out the kelp meal for seaweed extract. Not the liquid seaweed, but a granular extract. It is cheaper, and who wants to pay to ship water weight?

Now as far as good or bad bacteria from the alfalfa meal that is a good question. I don't personally know anyone who can distinguish.

That being said if you are using quality compost, and multiplying the bacteria in the compost we can only guess that they are good bacteria.

If your tea is properly aerated then you will have aerobic bacteria where as people think of negative bacteria as anaerobic bacteria which lives in a no to low oxygen environment.

Just because something contains anaerobic bacteria does not mean that is is bad. Most organic liquid nutes contain them. Offset with aerobic bacteria from a properly brewed tea, and the anaerobes are not that big of a deal.

I will be testing a new line of liquid nutes I have been working on, and they are anaerobic.

If they were aerobic they would spoil, and smell like shit. Possibly also exploding the bottle.

Now I did leave out that you can have aerobic bacteria suspended in a dormant state through making a compost extract. Their shelf life is longer than most would think.

I looked at some through the scope that were 3-4 months old, and they were still chalked full of good critters.

The problem being that most quality compost extract machines will run you 15k-20k

Luckily I know someone with said machine.

SONNN I am going to throw you a bone.

Things for your tea rated at 2.5 gallons brewed for 24 to 36 hours. A longer brew can give you more protozoa, but less bacteria. So you really need a microscope to see where the sweet spot is, but 24 hours is a good start.

.50-1oz molasses
a pinch of seaweed extract
1-2 teaspoons of fish hydrolysate(only use hydrolysate I have tested others and they do not work)Neptunes harvest is a good name brand
1-2 cups composted material(depending on how well your brewer works you may need more or less material)

You can then test different amounts of guano's, alfalfa meal, and things like that. However until you get a basic brew down I would not fuck with adding other things.

I hope this gets you going a little better. I forgot to add that the amount of air used is very important while brewing. If you are doing a 2.5 gallon brew then a standard walmart air pump will work. However if you go up to 5 gallons you will need to buy something else that has more power. Probably something in the range of 6-8 watts whereas walmart pumps are 3 watts.

The best part of all of this is that you can break free from the corporations that sell you on some bullshit to grow with. I always prefer that everyone do their own thing form the ground up, but for some it is just not possible.

The irony is that I will be one of those corporations. I have a full line of soil, tea kits, and liquid nutes that will be dropping in 2013.

My vpn is fucking up. Sorry for the double post.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Why would you want to replace kelp meal (minimally processed - dried & cut) with powdered seaweed extract which is heavily processed using Potassium Hydroxide?

CC

 

[Scrappy4]

Why would you want to replace kelp meal (minimally processed - dried & cut) with powdered seaweed extract which is heavily processed using Potassium Hydroxide?

CC

This might be the answer....

The irony is that I will be one of those corporations. I have a full line of soil, tea kits, and liquid nutes that will be dropping in 2013.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I see......

 

[ClackamasCootz]

If one wanted a true liquid kelp product then there is one easily available through commercial suppliers - KELPAK based in South Africa

Their extraction process does not involve synthetic chemicals, i.e. it is a mechanical method. The 'juice' is literally squeezed from fresh kelp harvested in the South Atlantic

This one is popular with the 'nute companies' because it's clear like water and doesn't mess up their goofy color schemes in their diluted white powder mixes.

 

[headband 707]

Personally I would get rid of all that quano .. As I'm not a fan of quano for obvious reasons.. You have enough nitogen in your mix and it's expensive and you don't need it ..I'm a big fan of cutting out what you don't need or what has chemicals or toxins in them we need to smoke this so we need to think about this. Seabird quano has many toxins/heavy metals these are facts ..I get that the hydro store is going to sell you as much shit as they can but it's up to you to know what's what I believe kelp/seaweed has already been mentioned ,,headband 707

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Why would you want to replace kelp meal (minimally processed - dried & cut) with powdered seaweed extract which is heavily processed using Potassium Hydroxide?

CC

You will not get the same microbial growth.

Do a test of a tea with each and look at them through a microscope.
There is indeed a difference.

Kelp meal is not the same thing as kelp extract. They are way different.

I have seen others post the same results.

This is not about me selling anything. That is funny though. I already make a living doing other things. I just want to share the products that I personally use with other people.

It is a daunting task to walk into a grow store, and say where do i start? The answer is always chemicals this, and chemicals that. I want the answer to be organic this, and organic that.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Personally I would get rid of all that quano .. As I'm not a fan of quano for obvious reasons.. You have enough nitogen in your mix and it's expensive and you don't need it ..I'm a big fan of cutting out what you don't need or what has chemicals or toxins in them we need to smoke this so we need to think about this. Seabird quano has many toxins/heavy metals these are facts ..I get that the hydro store is going to sell you as much shit as they can but it's up to you to know what's what I believe kelp/seaweed has already been mentioned ,,headband 707

Unless you get certified organic amendments they will all have some level of toxin in them. The key is doing what you think is best for you, and also immobilizing the heavy metals and toxins with quality compost teas.

It is almost impossible to get away from toxins at this point.

Which is very sad to say.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Why would you want to replace kelp meal (minimally processed - dried & cut) with powdered seaweed extract which is heavily processed using Potassium Hydroxide?

CC

Do you have anything that talks more about this because my supplier says that they do a cold press, and use no sort of chemicals.

My extract is the same one that large companies buy to make liquid seaweed. It doe snot make sense to ship water weight when you can get a 50lb. bag

This is intriguing though.

 

[SONNN]

I really appreciate the responses, it is a great help.

Dr Ozarks, thanks for the ingredients to add. Thats what I was looking for was the things i need to fill the gaps.

I understand I have a lot of nitrogen, but since i keep reading you cant OD on organics, I figured what the hell, I want the rest of the crap in the guanos i use so nitrogen wont be an issue.

I have 3 beans popped of Lavender, Im going to try this on that batch and see what happens, no chemicals on this run whatsoever.

 

[The Bling]

you are far better off top treating with compost than making a tea with your limited knowledge base

 

[SONNN]

Thank you but no thank you

 

[Toes.]

You are making a Leachate, and not a tea. You are basically extracting nutrients from the material you are putting into the liquid.

You have no compost, or worm casting in this to make it a tea. Alaska humus works very well also.

The small amounts of guano that you are using is not doing that much.

Without giving away trade secrets I can say that you can use over a cup per 5 gallon brew if you would like.

From what I am seeing with tests, and also reading the guano becomes more soluble from the brewing process, and then the microbes can do the rest.

However you do not have any microbes in your leachate.

I would add compost of some sort(a cup or so would do), and you should be going in a better direction.

Kelp meal in tea does not work like seaweed extract. You need to be using seaweed extract, and some fish if you feel so inclined.

I will say that from the tests I have done that alfalfa meal makes for more bacteria in my brews.

Honestly since you are not introducing microbes to your grow the chemical ferts have nothing to kill.

However there is no way in hell I would ever touch herb grown with chemical fert's.

People think I am a snob when I will not smoke their herb. As long as they can prove how it was grown I am all in. Usually it just can't be done because people are full of shit.

Glad to see you headed in the right direction. Admitting you have a problem(growing with chemicals) is the first step.

OrganicOzarks,

Does this mean alfalfa contains more microbes than guano? I'm curious about the absence of microbial life in guano.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

You will not get the same microbial growth.

Do a test of a tea with each and look at them through a microscope.
There is indeed a difference.

Kelp meal is not the same thing as kelp extract. They are way different.

I have seen others post the same results.

This is not about me selling anything. That is funny though. I already make a living doing other things. I just want to share the products that I personally use with other people.

It is a daunting task to walk into a grow store, and say where do i start? The answer is always chemicals this, and chemicals that. I want the answer to be organic this, and organic that.

That part you got right - kelp and seaweed extract are not the same thing. Kelp is a live material and seaweed extract is not. I see no need to use Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide extracted material in an organic soil.

You are aware that there are 3 grades of powdered seaweed extract, correct? I highly doubt that you're sourcing 'human, food-grade' material.

And before these specious claims about 'seaweed extract' grow legs and run amok, it might be helpful if you and others would state WHICH powdered seaweed extract that has been 'tested' and WHICH extraction process was used for the specific product you're testing with.

Digging around the web sites of the two major manufacturers of powered seaweed extract, Maxicrop and Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. might be helpful. Even they don't make such claims about their individual product lines - as in more than one.

I'll stick to live material and leave the chemicals to others.

BTW - if you think these questions are tough ones to answer, imagine how poorly you'll do trying to get your product line approved by any certification agency. Having said that, definitely stay out of California & Oregon because after October the organic certification agencies in these 2 states (OT & CCOF) are merging into a single organization.

If they banned the use of the term 'Fulvic acid' (which they did), imagine what they'll put your products through. Since that won't happen you'll be resigned like the rest of the grow store products to seek refuge under the OMRI facade.

CC

 

[OrganicOzarks]

That part you got right - kelp and seaweed extract are not the same thing. Kelp is a live material and seaweed extract is not. I see no need to use Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide extracted material in an organic soil.

You are aware that there are 3 grades of powdered seaweed extract, correct? I highly doubt that you're sourcing 'human, food-grade' material.

And before these specious claims about 'seaweed extract' grow legs and run amok, it might be helpful if you and others would state WHICH powdered seaweed extract that has been 'tested' and WHICH extraction process was used for the specific product you're testing with.

Digging around the web sites of the two major manufacturers of powered seaweed extract, Maxicrop and Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. might be helpful. Even they don't make such claims about their individual product lines - as in more than one.

I'll stick to live material and leave the chemicals to others.

BTW - if you think these questions are tough ones to answer, imagine how poorly you'll do trying to get your product line approved by any certification agency. Having said that, definitely stay out of California & Oregon because after October the organic certification agencies in these 2 states (OT & CCOF) are merging into a single organization.

If they banned the use of the term 'Fulvic acid' (which they did), imagine what they'll put your products through. Since that won't happen you'll be resigned like the rest of the grow store products to seek refuge under the OMRI facade.

CC

All I can go by is what my supplier tells me. I have been told that no chemicals have been used in a cold pressed extract.

I would never try to get a certification. I don't need the "opinion" of a group of people to justify anything that I am doing.

Seems like your tone is a bit harsh.

I asked you for some information, and all I got back was a harsh tone.

I like anyone else is right until proven wrong. which means we will all be proven wrong. that is what learning is. I would love more info about the chemicals used so that I can go to my supplier with it, and call them a liar.

A side note about certifications. I was told by a little birdy about some products that are on the omri list that do not meet the guidelines.

I did my own checking by digging around at the Companies that make said products, and come to find out this little birdie was correct. These Companies are using chemical preservatives in their products that do not meet omri guidelines.

Certifications whether they be organic for food or omri for growing are nothing but a scam for people to charge more.

I gotta say the "if you think these questions are tough ones to answer" comes out of left field. Because there was no question asked. It is just you getting upset, and me asking you the questions about said chemicals.

If you knew me in person you would know that I love being wrong because that means that I am learning.

Lose the attitude, and your message would come across better.

This is a marijuana site. How can you be so uptight.

I now have to talk with my supplier about chemicals in their extract.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

USDA NOP (National Organic Program) - Seaweed Extracts
NOP Rule: 205.601(j)(1)

As plant or soil amendments… Aquatic plant extracts (other than hydrolyzed) — Extraction process is limited to the use of Potassium Hydroxide or Sodium Hydroxide; solvent amount used is limited to that amount necessary for extraction.

Verbatim

Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. products are listed & registered under this rule as is Maxicrop.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

OrganicOzarks,

Does this mean alfalfa contains more microbes than guano? I'm curious about the absence of microbial life in guano.

Man we need microbeman for this one. I will give you what limited amount that I know.

From what I have seen I am thinking the alfalfa is a bacterial food. Thus growing more bacteria in your brew.

From what I have read the guano is pretty much devoid of any kind of microbial life, and I believe that most of it could be "sterilized" thus killing all life. so it is only used for an npk boost in your brew.

Again Microbeman needs to chime in on this one because he knows more than anyone else on here.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

USDA NOP (National Organic Program) - Seaweed Extracts
NOP Rule: 205.601(j)(1)



Verbatim

Acadian Seaplants, Ltd. products are listed & registered under this rule as is Maxicrop.

Thanks for that. Now I am armed with information to take to my supplier. That is the best thing about this site.

Thanks again!!!

 

[headband 707]

Unless you get certified organic amendments they will all have some level of toxin in them. The key is doing what you think is best for you, and also immobilizing the heavy metals and toxins with quality compost teas.

It is almost impossible to get away from toxins at this point.

Which is very sad to say.

The reason I stay away from SHIT lol lol.. is there is really ZERO reason for it ontop of which I think it's been proven more then once that it's NOT NEEDED lol.. I don't get it with ppl why they insist on putting this SHIT in thier bud and then they argue about it lol..Makes me laugh actually,, I have had the best bud I have ever had and had no SHIT ferts in it whatsoever.. There is no such thing as good SHIT when it comes to fertilizers we need to get used to that one.. We need to look for a healthier source headband 707

 

[OrganicOzarks]

The reason I stay away from SHIT lol lol.. is there is really ZERO reason for it ontop of which I think it's been proven more then once that it's NOT NEEDED lol.. I don't get it with ppl why they insist on putting this SHIT in thier bud and then they argue about it lol..Makes me laugh actually,, I have had the best bud I have ever had and had no SHIT ferts in it whatsoever.. There is no such thing as good SHIT when it comes to fertilizers we need to get used to that one.. We need to look for a healthier source headband 707

I believe this is where personal choice plays a role. There is indeed good shit. I am going to start raising chickens for this very reason. so that I have good organic shit.

The best part of this site is all of the different angles people use to get similar results. It really just comes down to what process you are happy with.

I believe that you can not get the same taste, and odor using minerals. Shit as you say makes the true flavors come through.

Again this is a believe, and an opinion. No fact in it whatsoever. The same as saying shit is not necessary is an opinion.

It all depends on what you want your end result to be, and how you feel the best way to get to that result.

I do love this site though, and all of the different ideas that come with it. I have learned so much over the years.