Stainless Steel Fittings

[Dab Strudel]

Ah read that as weekdays and Saturdays............

Pacific Rubber & Supply Corporation
690 Conger Street, Eugene, OR 97402-2783
(541) 342-3350
1-800-833-8009
Store Hours:
7:30 am to 5:00 pm Weekdays
9:00 am to 1:00 pm on Saturday

Holy cannoli, I cant believe Im making such bonehead mistakes. Maybe I need to step back for a week or so... Ive been reading things wrong, making wrong assumptions and connections. Life has brought on so much stress lately I guess I have to clear my head before continuing to participate in the community. I apologize for the lack of attention in my recent posts and PM's yall.

 

[Sunfire]

Lol whatever dude, that's why we are here, to help eachother.

Speaking of which, let's raise some bail money for gypsy!

 

[gholladay]

I bought some hoses from Pacific Rubber today. They were very friendly and helpful over the phone and they were able to confirm that the 37° JIC female flare fittings are indeed dual seat (in the appropriate sizes of course)!

Could someone give me a recommendation for a good ball valve source? Swagelok's single body valves are $200/ea at the 1/2" size. I've seen where Tompkins valves have been recommended, but they look like a two piece body (although the price is right). Will these valves leak under super cold conditions?

http://www.tompkinsind.com/product/ss-fbv050/16327

I'd love to know what ball valves you guys have used and liked the most. I'm looking specifically at 3/8" and 1/2" valves.

Thanks!

GH

 

[Sunfire]

I've gotten many from many sources.

I've been liking the ones from instalation parts supply. They are in socal so shipping fast and they go up to 1/2" ss ptfe seats 1000w.o.g. they have 1, 2, and 3 piece availability. The ones I got from a friend and the ones I got from stainlesssteelfittings had leaks. You have to tighten down the little nut underneath the handle, not the one holding the handle on.

It was said before I think on the ai thread that china has a superstition about making things tight So i always pre tighten that not that holds the seats down before I put the valves in action.

The ips ones are half the price of ssf. But they are not cryogenic rated and gw can direct you to those but they are spendy!

 

[flatslabs]

NPT ball valves? I have used these a few times, they are good:
https://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=valve

They make this note on their site, which makes me like them a little more:

Note: Many Chinese manufacturers stamp their valves with "WOG1000" but then cut down on material thickness to save costs. Many stores in America sell these valves as WOG1000 according to the stamp on the valve without knowing that they are not actually of such Industrial Quality. Duda Energy provides true WOG1000 valves which are tested to the necessary specifications to be qualified for handling 1000 psi applications. See our specifications below for a full comparison of the two types of valves.

 

[Gray Wolf]

After reviewing the modes of failure in the field, I've noted that besides sanitary seals wearing out, the next most common failure is a leak at an NPT thread that has been thermally cycled repeatedly and at valve stem seals.

For that reason, WolfWurx bit the bullet and switched to Swageloc compression ball valves in 3/8" and 1/2".

An unexpected benefit is how much faster tubing is to install than pipe, as well as the more petite valves requiring less space.

I tried to snap a picture of SN 00011, but my beloved D-80 is on the fritz again, leading me to covet a new one. I have no complaints over how much utility I got out of what I thought was ghastly expensive at the time for a home camera.

Ve vill see vot zee camera shop fix-um-up hero quotes, but reliable camera equipment is important to me, because of how useful a teaching tool it has become.

Also technically obsolete. In the background, there is also a little wolfish voice pointing out to me that I only have 10.3 mega pixels and my retired photographer friend Tom's new toy has over 20, giving him opportunities not available to me, like crisp shots of trichomes with a 1:1 lens.

 

[gholladay]

After reviewing the modes of failure in the field, I've noted that besides sanitary seals wearing out, the next most common failure is a leak at an NPT thread that has been thermally cycled repeatedly and at valve stem seals.

For that reason, WolfWurx bit the bullet and switched to Swageloc compression ball valves in 3/8" and 1/2".

An unexpected benefit is how much faster tubing is to install than pipe, as well as the more petite valves requiring less space.

I tried to snap a picture of SN 00011, but my beloved D-80 is on the fritz again, leading me to covet a new one. I have no complaints over how much utility I got out of what I thought was ghastly expensive at the time for a home camera.

Ve vill see vot zee camera shop fix-um-up hero quotes, but reliable camera equipment is important to me, because of how useful a teaching tool it has become.

Also technically obsolete. In the background, there is also a little wolfish voice pointing out to me that I only have 10.3 mega pixels and my retired photographer friend Tom's new toy has over 20, giving him opportunities not available to me, like crisp shots of trichomes with a 1:1 lens.

GW,

Great info! Looks like I'll be designing around compression fittings for my coils at least.

Can compression fittings be removed and reused? Or does the tightening of the fitting onto the tube render it a one time use?

EDIT: answered my own question..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdthSQDH8qk

 

[gholladay]

GW,

I'm planning to use a Tri-clamp cross on the top of my machine to hold a gauge and pressure relief valve (with the vent hose coming out of the top of the cross and column on the bottom, the gauge and relief would be on the sides of the cross).

Can you see any reason that this configuration would hinder the pressure relief valve from working properly? I can't think of any reasons why it shouldn't work, but that's why I want to ask, just to double check.

Thanks,

GH

 

[GratefulOne]

Make sure you note tube fittings (Swagelok, Park A-Lok) and NOT the same as basic compression fittings. Make sure you are using real tube fittings. They are also called instrumentation fittings.

Standard compression fittings are a single ferrule design with which it is hard to maintain a seal. My grandfather owned a plant when I was growing up that had a few thousand compression fittings for air and water. It seemed they all leaked. If you bump the fitting the seal often was broken.

Tube fittings use both single and double ferrule designs. The double ferrule is better with vibration and when you bump the connection. Swagelok and Parker A-Lok are double ferrrule. Parker CPI are single ferrule designs.

Make sure you learn the difference. It can be confusing if people have never seen dealt with Swagelok, etc.

 

[gholladay]

Make sure you note tube fittings (Swagelok, Park A-Lok) and NOT the same as basic compression fittings. Make sure you are using real tube fittings. They are also called instrumentation fittings.

Standard compression fittings are a single ferrule design with which it is hard to maintain a seal. My grandfather owned a plant when I was growing up that had a few thousand compression fittings for air and water. It seemed they all leaked. If you bump the fitting the seal often was broken.

Tube fittings use both single and double ferrule designs. The double ferrule is better with vibration and when you bump the connection. Swagelok and Parker A-Lok are double ferrrule. Parker CPI are single ferrule designs.

Make sure you learn the difference. It can be confusing if people have never seen dealt with Swagelok, etc.

GO,

Thanks for the advice! I'm planning to purchase all Swagelok for my fittings, so hopefully I shouldn't run into any of those issues! I've heard the warnings against value compression fittings, so I'm just gonna go with the good stuff from the beginning

GH

 

[Gray Wolf]

GW,

Great info! Looks like I'll be designing around compression fittings for my coils at least.

Can compression fittings be removed and reused? Or does the tightening of the fitting onto the tube render it a one time use?

EDIT: answered my own question..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdthSQDH8qk

Yes, when properly tightened, the Swagelocs can be used repeatedly.

Had to send my D-80 camera in for repairs, so picked up a new D-610, and here is the picture I promised.

If you look closely, you will see the clock marks on the compression fitting, from when they were installed. You tighten them hand tight, and then exactly 1 1/4 turns.

 

[Gray Wolf]

GW,

I'm planning to use a Tri-clamp cross on the top of my machine to hold a gauge and pressure relief valve (with the vent hose coming out of the top of the cross and column on the bottom, the gauge and relief would be on the sides of the cross).

Can you see any reason that this configuration would hinder the pressure relief valve from working properly? I can't think of any reasons why it shouldn't work, but that's why I want to ask, just to double check.

Thanks,

GH

Should work.

 

[gholladay]

Should work.

Thank you sir!

 

[oregonmedicine]

With triple bite type fittings like swagelok, there are a couple cheaper, high quality options including smith cooper (also does tri clover) and tylok which is a top quality brand, for about half price as swagelok.

For any confusion on flared fittings, generally brass flares will be 45 degree sae and steel/stainless will generally be 37 degree jic. The jic and sae interchange via dual seats in all sizes except 6 and 12. In those 2 sizes it is either sae or jic.

 

[gholladay]

With triple bite type fittings like swagelok, there are a couple cheaper, high quality options including smith cooper (also does tri clover) and tylok which is a top quality brand, for about half price as swagelok.

For any confusion on flared fittings, generally brass flares will be 45 degree sae and steel/stainless will generally be 37 degree jic. The jic and sae interchange via dual seats in all sizes except 6 and 12. In those 2 sizes it is either sae or jic.

Nice first post OM!

I don't have any experience with those brands, but if the parts are of equal quality and the service is good, that would be a pretty good resource. The smith cooper fittings are very well priced in comparison to Swagelok.

http://www.smithcooper.com/downloads

Do you have experience ordering from either of these companies?

Thanks,

GH

 

[GratefulOne]

With triple bite type fittings like swagelok, there are a couple cheaper, high quality options including smith cooper (also does tri clover) and tylok which is a top quality brand, for about half price as swagelok.

For any confusion on flared fittings, generally brass flares will be 45 degree sae and steel/stainless will generally be 37 degree jic. The jic and sae interchange via dual seats in all sizes except 6 and 12. In those 2 sizes it is either sae or jic.

For sure some Swagelok competitors are really good. Some are not. Watch out for more galling on pipe threads with cheaper parts. Swagelok and other top brands do seem to work better in regards to galling.

For double ferrule tube connections the off brand likely would work great for our low pressures.

Do you have a good source for the Smith Cooper Instrumentation Fittings? They are made in China. I find info but no one selling them.

 

[Sunfire]

For any confusion on flared fittings, generally brass flares will be 45 degree sae and steel/stainless will generally be 37 degree jic. The jic and sae interchange via dual seats in all sizes except 6 and 12. In those 2 sizes it is either sae or jic.

If you look back on this thread, what you say is not necessarily true. All my ss fittings are sae 45. The dual seat thing is a joke and will ruin your male flare fittings over time. I have personally experienced this.

 

[oregonmedicine]

That is why I said generally. Automotive and gases are generally using sae in brass and hydraulics generally use jic in steel. There are sae in steel and jic in brass, but is far less common.

Wearing out or leaking from flared fittings with the dual seat are 99 percent of the time from either over tightening (more than hand tight and a quarter turn) or from using a sealant on the flare. If it has a seal, flare or icing do not use tape.

 

[Sunfire]

Ummmm, automotive uses alot of carbon steel as one can see In their local parts supply store.

American assembled tractors use jic 37 like montana, John deere, LS, and cat. Japanese or Korean assembled use jis 30 (Japanese industry standard), such as Mahindra.

All the fittings on my tractor are brass jic 37. They only use ss when you get into turboflow or super high pressure pumps. The beverage industry uses a lot of ss sae 45.

No, the dual seat as I said is a joke, it doesn't seal unless you over tighten which is why i ordered a bunch of flaretite conical seals, as I you can also read back in this thread. I have a chart that lists all the torque for different size sae 45 and jic 37 fittings for brass and ss. To get a dual cone to seal you need way more then the recommended 14 foot pounds for a 1/4" sae 45 male flare to seat a dual cone swivel without leaking. You might as well just put as jic 37 swivel on it and wrench it down hard. Many of us have dealt with this. The problem is that the outer section of the cone for the sae 45 to seat on isn't flush flat, it's rounded. Any tiny Imperfection is the swivel or the male and It's perfection the won't seal properly.

 

[GratefulOne]

Sunfire please leave the guy alone. I did not see anything wrong with what he said.

Oregonmedicine welcome and thank you. It appears from how you have worded a few comments that you have some experience with this stuff.