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Spurr's groundbreaking fert. mixes and methods (YouTube screen-cast and web site!)

D

DonkDBZ

Read his ABOUT ME to know why he got banned. At least someone made his posts viewable again. Instead of blocking them all to be spiteful in regards to what his ABOUT ME says.


Back on topic

The DAP I got was crap so I dumped and replaced with some haifa MAP and no mixxing issues. Though my ratios are a lil off of the suggested.
 
Babbabud

Babbabud

Bodhisattva of the Earth
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Ok anymore talk about the banning here and we will just close this . sorry.
Lets get back on topic.
 
G

greenmatter

Babbabud said:
Ok anymore talk about the banning here and we will just close this . sorry.
Lets get back on topic.
Click to expand...

babba could have binned this yesterday if he wanted to ...... take notice of the word sorry folks, it does not sound like he really wants to delete all the good info in this thread unless we force his hand... and he gets bad feedback for doing his job. let it go guys! babba is one of the least "heavy handed" mods out there IMHO, but when he says chill out or it will get binned i don't think he is kidding.
 
HG23

HG23

Member
Im interested to know if anyone is still using Spurr's profiles and what media/technique they're using. I'm a soil grower but would like to give these profiles or Jacks/epsom a shot on my next run and maybe transition to a soilless medium the one after that.
 
N

Nifty_PoT

Active member
Hmm lol yeah this pretty much sucks , spurr dis all the effort for this formula and then got banned ;/ now we wont know shit further about this formula.. I tried it once but got bad prcipitation after a few days from the citric acid for some reason. So yeah is anyone using Spurrs formula anymore?
 
R

rootfingers

Active member
I'm rockin some of his ratios, modified, like I do everything. So far (2nd run) I like the results better than anything since pbp and sunshine #4 ('08).

If you folks are sad he got banned and you like his work, I'm sure he'd appreciate you attempting his methods.
 
habeeb

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
wish he would come back..

info is info no matter how you want to cut it or display it..
 
HG23

HG23

Member
Hey rootfingers, how's everything going with the ratios? I'm interested to know exactly how you've modified them and if you're using the RO water re-mineralization technique that Spurr outlined. Also, are you still using the sunshine#4 as your medium? I''m thinking of trying out some coco or peat and would appreciate your input.
 
HG23

HG23

Member
Does anyone know how I can figure out which salts I can directly mix together? I currently use Jacks Pro and it has Calnit separate and everything else mixed together as its own part:

MKP
KNO3
MgSO4
Boric acid
iron EDTA
mang. EDTA
Zinc EDTA
copper EDTA
ammonium moly.

I would like to be able to preweigh my salts into 2-3 parts for whatever size res I need to mix up and then predissolve the parts like I do Jacks and add them to the res. I know the potassium silicate may need to be on its own, but I'm really not sure. I wish this thread was still alive!

Salts I'm planning to use:

CalNit
potassium silicate
potassium nitrate
DAP
MKP
mag sulfate
mag nitrate
boric acid
copper sulfate
manganese sulfate
zinc sulfate
iron DPTA
sodium molybdate
 
Y

YosemiteSam

I would do the CaNO3 separately and just chunk the rest together. Add any pH down you are going to use as soon as you start the water and then just add stuff slowly so the mix does not get concentrated.

In fact, I now just dump it all together and then add it slowly...but I cannot quite recommend that to anyone else.

The problem comes when you try to make too concentrated a soln of Ca and SO4 or P or a couple of the micros. But if you are adding stuff to a dilute enough res it really don't matter.

Let me slip into this flame retardant suit.
 
HG23

HG23

Member
Thanks YS, I appreciate the response.

I think you hit the nail on the head with trying to keep concentrated Ca away from P and SO4.

I have all the salts I need on hand, I'm just waiting for my miligram scale to show up and I will start giving this a try. I'm about to finish up the first week of flowering on my current run that has been on nothing but Jacks and Roots Excel and things are looking great. Has me kinda hesitant to shake things up with this new regimen but its something I've been wanting to try for a long time and even though things look good, I have a feeling they could still be happier on the inside.

Also, when I compare the profile of Jack's Pro to spurr's numbers for full flowering there isn't anything that seems too drastically different (although I know small changes in micros can make a big difference) except the addition of Si which Jacks is completely lacking. Do you have any thoughts on this or anything else about the difference between these two profiles? Thanks a lot, it seems hard to find people who really know about this topic.

Jacks
N (nitrate) 150
NH4 0
P 52
K 215
Ca 116
Mg 63
S 82
Si 0
Fe 3
Zn .15
B .5
Mn .5
Cu .15
Mo .10
Na 0

Spurr's
NO3= 128
NH4=32
P= 90
K= 200
Ca= 133.3
Mg= 66.7
S= 60
Si= 90
Fe= 2
Zn= .075
B= .3
Mn= .75
Cu= .03
Mo= .045
Na= .02
 
Y

YosemiteSam

I like Si quite a bit. I spray it on the plant though rather than load it in the fertigation water along with running a much lower K ppm...lets me get lower on Mg also and achieve a much higher Ca:Mg ratio.

Of the two profiles I think the main difference is which one is going to control media pH better for you. In RO water Jacks is gonna work better, in water somewhere in the 80-100 ppm alkalinity range Spurr's will work better. My water is at 50-60 ppm alkalinity (equivalent CO3 units I think) and I require 15% NH4 to maintain media pH...and it stays good for 20 wks or so in the pot.

One thing I would recommend is running your Fe up to right at 4 ppm. That single move added a full point to my brix.

I find myself pursuing a high Ca, low EC mix these days. So quite a bit different profile...but more than one way to skin a cat or grow a plant.
 
HG23

HG23

Member
Hey YS,

I can double the iron in spurrs profile to 4ppm no problem, is there anything else you think I should adjust along with that to keep ratios happy? I remember you talking about brix earlier in this thread and am considering getting a meter to read it. I used to be a mechanic and we would use a similar (exact same?) type of refractometer to check the strength of battery acid.

I am growing in coco with tap water that has 59 ppm CaCO3, 19ppm Ca, 3.2ppm Mg and about 60 ppm TDS.

I feel like between the different preventative foliar sprays I do as well as trying to work in some Calcium 25 during stretch I can't fit anymore foliar spraying in and also give the plants a couple days to recover otherwise I would try it. I have the Agsil potassium silicate, if I wanted to could I foliar with that? Just curious.

I am interested in learning more about the ratios of different elements that I always hear you, spurr and others who seem to be in the know talk about. Have you just been learning by trial and error, or is there another resource you could point me towards? I know many of the ratios may have Cannabis specific effects and there isn't a lot of solid info out there on them. After I read a post like yours above I find myself wondering things like, why would you want to run much lower K and why does that let you run lower Mg? Is it done to achive the goal of the higher Ca:Mg? What is that important for? I've seen the Mulder's charts many times online but that seems kind of like a broad guide to element interaction. I'm not asking you to try and answer all those questions, or trying to challenge your advice, just want to let you know a little bit of what's going on in my head.

Thanks again for any input and for helping me get a handle on raw salt fertilization. I've read and learned a lot from many of your posts. It's funny how many people who grow cannabis have no idea this area of knowledge exists or the possibilities you can open up by experimenting with different strains/feed combinations. Sometimes when people ask what I feed I just lie and say HG or cutting edge solutions because broaching the subject makes people think im crazy or something.
 
Y

YosemiteSam

My guess is you fight slightly raising pH over the course of a grow with Jacks and will face dropping pH with Spurr's formula.

Your water is similar to mine and I run 15% NH4. It is also similar to a member named analogue...who in my opinion runs the gold standard formula for coco with this kind of alkalinity. If he is watching perhaps he can join in and show that formula.

I tend to fuck around quite a bit more...some things work and some don't.

I gotta run but I will get back on later and show you my formula. Lately my messing around has been based on the work of Albrecht. Here is a site that bases their work on him also http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/blog/

a bunch of advertising but also a ton of good info in the media archive articles...even on how to use a refractometer...a video
 
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