Serious Seeds Females

[jaybutta]

can you show us any quotes that sujest selfing promotes intersexed traits,,,,?

I'm not sure what the point of that would be...to me, hundreds if not thousands of growers are experiencing this phenomenon for themselves...which speaks volumes in my mind...more educational than any book anyone can pick up...what I can show you are quotes that reinforce the notion that selfing is stress, and that stress is one of the leading causes of genetic mutation...now, to what extent the genetic code is mutated I really cannot comment...some people are finding some strains much more suitable for selfing than others, and they are happy with their results...for the purposes of hobby breeding, I see no problem with this...when it is introduced to the market as something it is not, then I have a problem...selfing is stress...stress causes mutations...mutations necessarily distinguish one strain/phenotype/plant from another in multiple ways, whether minor or major...most people are happy to pay twice the price for half the product...because they believe they are getting the same genetic...which they are not...if you want a Rolex, buy a Rolex...again, that's just my opinion...jay

 

[hoosierdaddy]

It aint gonna happen, rick.

Here, let me help...

Basic Breeding from The Cannabis Breeder's Bible

"Well informed breeders tend to shy away from producing feminized seeds. Feminized seeds should only be used for bud production and not for breeding. Generating seeds from feminized plants is only advised for personal use and not for distribution."

"The female-only seeds often carry the hermaphrodite trait. Selfing has become popular among those who wish to breed all-female or feminized seeds. Unfortunately feminized seeds do very little for the cannabis gene pool as the hermaphrodite condition prevents growers from generating a sensemilla crop."

"Feminized seeds are very expensive. Seed banks charge almost twice the price for feminized seeds. Their sellers claim to provide the grower with all female seeds. But in fact growers experience variable results with feminized seeds. They find females, hermaphrodites and males in the feminized seed population. Some growers may not find any males, but along with the females some hermaphrodites. Most good growers will only see females. So what is it that is causing growers to see different plant genders from feminized seeds? Why is it that good growers see females and other growers see males and hermaphrodites? The answer lies in the term 'good growers'."

"Most good growers choose standard seeds over feminized seeds for a number of reasons. Feminized seeds are expensive and are more likely to produce hermaphrodites as a result of stress than do standard seeds that are stressed. Since the hermaphrodite condition is not considered advantageous by growers who wish to produce a sensemilla crop they will generally stick with standard seeds as opposed to feminized seeds, which have the propensity to herm if they go through a little stress."

"With standard seeds the hermaphrodite condition is sill realizable through stress but is very strain-dependent. There are two main very stressful conditions which promote the hermaphrodite trait in both standard and feminized seeds: first, an irregular flowering photoperiod and second, heat stress."

Like the man said...

"Feminised seed are great for those who do not want to breed, but grow a flower with minimum of ease...what I call Armchair growers. Regular seed is the genetic pool and therefore should be kept separated until a lot more experience and research is done without polluting and destroying all we selected for over the last decades."

This information is intended to inform, not to inflame...hope it helps...jay

 

[kopite]

Glad you like that...it's from SNL (Hanz and Franz)...for the purposes of this conversation, I am mainly referencing 3 books...Marijuana Botany, The Breeder's Bible, and Marijuana Chemistry...peace...jay

then I will quote dolly "2 out of 3 ain't bad"

The same variety cannot be seen in fem and regular seeds...you cannot compare a selfed or femmed anything with it's regular counterpart...there is a reason why femmers choose to work with proven females and phenotypes...the genotype is still in tact...the genetic code is altered in fems, to the degree that you are not talking about the same phenotypes, phenotypical variations, or even the same plants...we're already seeing it in the "first generations"...those that we do not see now will surely show themselves in subsequent generations...it's not a matter of 'if', but rather of 'when'...of course, you don't have to take my word for it, but time will tell...mark my words...what I say is true, mate...jay

I'm not sure what the point of that would be...to me, hundreds if not thousands of growers are experiencing this phenomenon for themselves...which speaks volumes in my mind...more educational than any book anyone can pick up...what I can show you are quotes that reinforce the notion that selfing is stress, and that stress is one of the leading causes of genetic mutation...now, to what extent the genetic code is mutated I really cannot comment...some people are finding some strains much more suitable for selfing than others, and they are happy with their results...for the purposes of hobby breeding, I see no problem with this...when it is introduced to the market as something it is not, then I have a problem...selfing is stress...stress causes mutations...mutations necessarily distinguish one strain/phenotype/plant from another in multiple ways, whether minor or major...most people are happy to pay twice the price for half the product...because they believe they are getting the same genetic...which they are not...if you want a Rolex, buy a Rolex...again, that's just my opinion...jay

I sure hope you don't eat shop brought fruit,veg etc you might turn mutant

 

[jaybutta]

It aint gonna happen, rick.

Here, let me help...

Thankyou hoosierdaddy...the man's name is shantibaba...jay

 

[hoosierdaddy]

The author of that has nothing they can show that backs up their assertion of a feminized seed having a higher propensity to hermie than regular seeds. It's bullshit.

And you are welcome.

Poorly selected parents produce hermie prone progeny, be it feminized or regular.

 

[jaybutta]

The author of that has nothing they can show that backs up their assertion of a feminized seed having a higher propensity to hermie than regular seeds. It's bullshit.

And you are welcome.

I'm afraid you have failed to provide any evidence which would disprove this, while I can point to several threads/books/growers/breeders which address this precise issue...I had hoped you would come with more than 'It's bullshit', but clearly you have nothing to back up your statements...such a shame...jay

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Point to them. None of them can provide a clear reason why properly selected parent plants will have a high propensity to produce hermie laden progeny. It just aint so.
If they arent talking X's and Y's, then they are doing the same thing you are doing.

 

[englishrick]

JAY,,,if you dont manage to reference any real quotes soon its gona be ovious you aint read anything exept shantis mini posts, ,,,,,the guys your talking to here have read big fat books bro,,,

 

[jaybutta]

Point to them. None of them can provide a clear reason why properly selected parent plants will have a high propensity to produce hermie laden progeny. It just aint so.

You are moving onto a different topic...but I will bite nonetheless...you cannot compare a strain whose parents are chosen from amongst thousands of plants with a strain selected from one pack of regular seeds...you can try...but you will fail every single time...that's why all these companies are choosing to rip one company in particular...superior selection techniques and specimens can only be found one way...not by selfing...not by femminizing...by breeding...that's the only way, and unfortunately we're running out of people willing to do that work...which means we are necessarily heading for indoor bottlenecking and herm prone cultivars...you can ignore and deny this all you'd like...it doesn't detract one bit from the reality of the situation...at the end of the day, you're only stating your opinion...jay

 

[jaybutta]

JAY,,,if you dont manage to reference any real quotes soon its gona be ovious you aint read anything exept shantis mini posts, ,,,,,the guys your talking to here have read big fat books bro,,,

hoosierdaddy pasted a few of my referenced quotes...the rest are at MNS...plz be my guest and go ahead and cite your own references...I have nothing to hide...I've done my fair share of reading...jay

 

[hoosierdaddy]

It takes the selection of many plants to find a true breeder with the characteristics that the grower/breeder wants. If the grower/breeder has done this for two different cultivars, and they have two unique mother plants that are true breeding, then forcing one to pollinate the other is not irresponsible in any shape of the word. There is no genetic mutation that will take place. The grower/breeder will have a feminized seed that is a result of the mating of two true breeding individuals. And as long as he keeps the parents, it is easily reproduced.
And guess what..there is nothing about the process that would make these two true breeders decide to throw hermie. Nothing at all.

Now, tell me where there is no selective work, and any sort of irresponsibility in that scenario.

 

[englishrick]

bro,,,no offence but it seems you need to read more about "crop improvement",,,

 

[englishrick]

i will reference my own soon,,,but its easy to solve this problem,,,,,i want to see if you can solve it yourself first bro

 

[jaybutta]

It takes the selection of many plants to find a true breeder with the characteristics that the grower/breeder wants. If the grower/breeder has done this for two different cultivars, and they have two unique mother plants that are true breeding, then forcing one to pollinate the other is not irresponsible in any shape of the word. There is no genetic mutation that will take place. The grower/breeder will have a feminized seed that is a result of the mating of two true breeding individuals. And as long as he keeps the parents, it is easily reproduced.
And guess what..there is nothing about the process that would make these two true breeders decide to throw hermie. Nothing at all.

Now, tell me where there is no selective work, and any sort of irresponsibility in that scenario.

The minute you reverse either female you have purposely caused genetic mutation...chicks with dicks, bro...not natural in any sense of the word, and offensive to true plant lovers...just my opinion...jay

 

[jaybutta]

i will reference my own soon,,,but its easy to solve this problem,,,,,i want to see if you can solve it yourself first bro

The solution is to use males and females to create new strains...the solution is to recombine the genes instead of altering them...I await and welcome any reference you may have that disproves anything I've said...I'm always down to learn something new...I keep my mind open at all times...let me know...jay

 

[kopite]

The minute you reverse either female you have purposely caused genetic mutation...chicks with dicks, bro...not natural in any sense of the word, and offensive to true plant lovers...just my opinion...jay

nothing changes genetically.... and a chick with a dick is natural without it you would not have dioecious plants

 

[englishrick]

jay et al would be better

 

[hoosierdaddy]

The minute you reverse either female you have purposely caused genetic mutation...chicks with dicks, bro...not natural in any sense of the word, and offensive to true plant lovers...just my opinion...jay

Your opinion is what this all boils down to. You are leaving fact at the door. And like kopite stated, it is completely natural.

Messenger? I hardly think so.
Perhaps one day if you channel your enthusiasm into some real research, instead of taboos and hearsays.

 

[jaybutta]

nothing changes genetically.... and a chick with a dick is natural without it you would not have dioecious plants

In the absence of a male and under stressful conditions, yes, the process is natural...jay

 

[hoosierdaddy]

In the absence of a male and under stressful conditions, yes, the process is natural...jay

(_8(l) ....doh!