Run Off 1400 ppm on little plants...what should be done?

[slowandeasy]

Ok take my words with a grain of salt as I do not know coco that well, I'm starting myself with it and finishing a run in soil. i red a lot of things about coco and talked to people who runs with coco before i decide to switch to this so promising medium.
What I'm going to tell you is what I would do if I were you.

First pics would be welcome, as it could help us see what kind of yellowing you have.
Are you sure about the pH of your water? Take your water, mix it with your nutrients adjust pH if needed, let it rest for an hour, shake it and read the pH. What's the figure?

What are the size of the pots they're in right now?

Does the "Burpee" coco comes hydrated or compressed?

Did you try to take some of the coco and rinse it once or twice and then test the runoff with your RO water? Get back at us with the result.

I mean for what we know, we are not even sure the runoff test is a good way to measure overfertilization. But what's sure is that this yellowing comes from somewhere and we need to find where!

Can you get some pics?



Carl Carlson: I can't open the webpage with the test. Seems like a good info, can you paste it here?

I am a Hydro Grower, this is my first attempt at Coco. I am very anal about pH and EC. pH feeding is 5.5-5.6 and ppm is 600. I checked the Burpee, compressed brick, with just straight RO water. It was 700ppm right out of the bag. This is what is causing the yellowing, I am positive of that. But what do I do, just water using RO water for a few days? Feed half Strength? I need to get the salts out of the Coco, so flushing would be nice...but how often and how much?

I tested the Botonicare Boss coco right out of the bag was 250-300 ppm. I rinsed it a few times and got it down to zero. This is what I will use for my new seedlings and clones. I just need to fix the other cups that have the Burpee coco. They are all in Beer cups for now. No pics yet, but can put some up tomorrow. Anyone else have a suggestion?

 

[Equilibrium]

Ok then no pH problem.

I have a suggestion. If I were you, I would rinse the cups with Burpee coco in it because obviously this coco cannot be used as it is and watering with nutes would only build up more salts IMO. So everytime they need some water, I would give them RO water during 2 or 3 days or until the PPM runoff gets down.

Then transplant them with your Botanicare rinsed coco in a bigger container. Slowly rise nutes again.

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Guywithoutajeep: That is exactly what the owner if my hydro shop told me when i started gettin' interested about coco.

He told me a lot of coco comes from South America (Argentina if I remember) and being near the sea, it has a lot of salts in it.
The guy uses coco since years and he recommended me a brand which buy the coco from India and use clear water to rinse it. It is even less expensive than the Canna brand.

Your theory is not unproven, it is totally right.

Mine actually comes from Sri Lanka, BCuzz brand. I think it makes the theory plausible...I think I remember someone else around here saying something about that so that's probably where I first heard that.

Just out of curiousity slow, does the pH of your runoff come out lower than what you put in?

 

[slowandeasy]

So what should I do? The other 2 look great, but this one not so much. I just gave this one water tonight. Any ideas?

 

[Mountain High]

cal mag plus is a good additive to have around when growing in coco. if those start to show brown spots its a possible sign of calcium deficiency. it kinda looks like what i have experienced in the past with early signs of cal def.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Pfft, you call that a problem? Looks like a slight mg def or maybe a slight iron def starting to show itself. Your plant looks fine to me. Calmag raises your ppm and not every leaf blight can be corrected with calmag. The new growth looks good (maybe some slight slight leaf claw starting to show itself?)

 

[slowandeasy]

Pfft, you call that a problem? Looks like a slight mg def or maybe a slight iron def starting to show itself. Your plant looks fine to me. Calmag raises your ppm and not every leaf blight can be corrected with calmag. The new growth looks good (maybe some slight slight leaf claw starting to show itself?)

Yes that is the start of a problem! Since the Coco was such high ppm, it could be something caused by that right? I am using the 6/9 formula, with RO water. Supposed to have enough cal-mag in the mix. I do have some Magi-Cal, just incase...but others have said to just raise the pH instead of adding Cal-Mag.

I do not feel comfortable adding things without knowing if the problem is caused by the Coco, not the nute mix. Not sure what to do, but I flushed with RO water tonight, and will feed tomorrow. Since the other 2 look good, I fed normal. We shall see what happens tomorrow. Any advice?

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Any advice?

Yes. Stop obsessing over it. It's a weed. I'd be more concerned with the taco leaf you got going. I don't use head's formula, but if it was the nute mix or a bad batch of coco, then wouldn't all your plants look like that one? PH going in, I think, is supposed to be right around 5.9 for coco.

 

[slowandeasy]

Yes. Stop obsessing over it. It's a weed. I'd be more concerned with the taco leaf you got going. I don't use head's formula, but if it was the nute mix or a bad batch of coco, then wouldn't all your plants look like that one? PH going in, I think, is supposed to be right around 5.9 for coco.

Obviously your ignorant. Its a plant, not a weed. Caring for your plants is not obsessing. I like to do things right, and this is my 1st time using coco. I usually grow DWC, and if you were an experieced grower you would know how important it is to keep plants healthy. If you have nothing good to say, dont say anything at all. You think it is supposed to be at 5.9? 5.5 is supposed to be the best overall pH. As for a bad batch of coco, I know it is bad...now. Unless 750 ppm is normal right out of the bag.

I will see what they look like tomorrow. As of now, I just watered that one. So if anyone has suggestions, please share. Thanks.

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Obviously your ignorant.

Nice. I'm not ignorant, but I do read what people say when I'm asking for help. I use canna nutes and coco and MY PH IS ALWAYS BETWEEN 5.8 and 6.0!!!! My plants are doing fine under that regimen, lol. I already told you what to do in my first post on the first page (Carl and others said the same thing, basically), if that's not the advice you want to hear, then I can't help you. Calling me names ain't going to fix that taco leaf you got going on. Your screen name doesn't describe your growing style, that's for sure.

Good luck.

 

[IWanaGetHiSoHi]

A plant can also be a weed and weeds are certainly plants ... A coconut palm stores salts between its cell walls (hence no salty taste in coconut milk or the "meat") ... Rinse the bad salts Out and replace with good salts ... Botanicare and Atami have already done this for you.

 

[slowandeasy]

Nice. I'm not ignorant, but I do read what people say when I'm asking for help. I use canna nutes and coco and MY PH IS ALWAYS BETWEEN 5.8 and 6.0!!!! My plants are doing fine under that regimen, lol. I already told you what to do in my first post on the first page (Carl and others said the same thing, basically), if that's not the advice you want to hear, then I can't help you. Calling me names ain't going to fix that taco leaf you got going on. Your screen name doesn't describe your growing style, that's for sure.

Good luck.

I use GH nutes...not Canna. 1 plant looks like that, the others are fine. Actually if you read the 1st page I was told 3 different things to do, others said not to flush! Obviously I am concerned for my plants, and you say "pffffft, you call that a problem". I have been doing Hydro for a very long time, Coco is a bit different. If you see a plant develope problems in DWC, if you are not on top of it...it will get worse quickly. Yes, there is a slight taco...another concern of mine....which is why I flushed last night.

Just to let you know here is the definition of ignorant. "lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified" I was not calling you stupid, but anyone who responds " it's just a weed" is ignorant. It is a plant, that needs to be taken care of. I like to do things right, the 1st time. I also like my quality to be top notch, ignoring problems will not produce that. I am not a newbie trying to get my first yeild. I am asking for advice, and so far I have gotten a few different answers. Who is right?

 

[dunkybones]

Obviously your ignorant. Its a plant, not a weed. Caring for your plants is not obsessing. I like to do things right, and this is my 1st time using coco. I usually grow DWC, and if you were an experieced grower you would know how important it is to keep plants healthy. If you have nothing good to say, dont say anything at all. You think it is supposed to be at 5.9? 5.5 is supposed to be the best overall pH

.

Whoa, ease up slowandeasy. Don't ask for advice and then tell people they're stupid, you've been getting some good advice here. Your plant doesn't look too bad, flushing with ro water will sometimes stress an already stressed plant, as you are essentially starving them briefly. Flushing with light/medium standard nute profile often has better results, flushing out the bad and replacing with the good.

pH of 5.8-6.0 is standard for coco, even if the workable range is 5.2-6.2.

 

[slowandeasy]

.

Whoa, ease up slowandeasy. Don't ask for advice and then tell people they're stupid, you've been getting some good advice here. Your plant doesn't look too bad, flushing with ro water will sometimes stress an already stressed plant, as you are essentially starving them briefly. Flushing with light/medium standard nute profile often has better results, flushing out the bad and replacing with the good.

pH of 5.8-6.0 is standard for coco, even if the workable range is 5.2-6.2.

Read my last post. I NEVER called anyone stupid. Saying ignorant things does not make you stupid. Would you take the advice of someone who says "Its just a weed"? If you read Rez/H3ad's instructions, they both say 5.5-5.6 with GH nutes is the best. Of course the range is 5.2-6.2, and each set up and plant is different. If it is a Cal-Mag issue I will bump up to 5.9...the problem is with a starting ppm of 750 on virgin coco, I am not sure if it is salt content causing the problem or not.

The only reason I flushed with straight RO was to get rid of the build up. I will feed again tonight. Now your giving different advice than the rest. I appreciate everyones advice, just not sure who/what is right. So far here is the advice.

1. Do nothing and monitor
2. Flush with RO water
3. Flush with low nutes
4. transplant

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Dude just stick with your regimen. Your plant will be fine. I think those ppms will keep working down if your watering to runoff.

Rez uses 5.5, obviously it works. My plants work better with 5.8, whatever works.

 

[dunkybones]

Dude just stick with your regimen. Your plant will be fine. I think those ppms will keep working down if your watering to runoff.

Rez uses 5.5, obviously it works. My plants work better with 5.8, whatever works.

What he said.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Carl Carlson: I can't open the webpage with the test. Seems like a good info, can you paste it here?

no, the .pdf file is too large

with your search engine search for the phrase "pour through method ncstate"

it will come right up

 

[Equilibrium]

no, the .pdf file is too large

with your search engine search for the phrase "pour through method ncstate"

it will come right up

Ok thanks I'm gonna read that.

For those who are interested, here's the link: http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/hort_sci/extension/ag-717w.pdf

 

[~Shhh~]

If your plants have filled the cups with roots then go ahead and flush the coco with a 1/4 strength feed until the PPM's are near to what your inputting.

When you allow coco to dry the salt content will concentrate then you water it and alot of those salts will come out in the run off.

I see you are trying to avoid this small issue turning into a bigger problem, but it's hard to tell just what is causing the spotting right now, whether the 750ppm of salt in the coco or something else. I would say that when you get into bloom with these girls then 5.8 - 6.2 is the sweet spot pH wise... never had a def using that range in bloom. But I use Canna nutes & my water has a high EC/ppm level to start of with.

Do not flush your coco with straight water (especially RO) you will throw the cation balanced out of wack and others have said starve your plants.

Good luck bro.

 

[HydroManiac]

the plants are growing fast, but you see slight yellowing.

Ok the the first part is great, but on which part of the plant do you see the yellowing?

The location (top, middle, bottom) on the plant and a more precise description might tell us all we need to know to figure you where your plants are deficient.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about read this: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=161010

Now as for the runoff, I've asked this question a few times on the runoff threads, but no one seems to want to take a stab at it.

Where did the idea of testing runoff come from, the rockwool growers? It doesn't apply to coco and other soilless mediums even if they are being used in a hydroponic system.

Don't measure the runoff. When you measure the runoff that is a product of watering to slight excess, by design you are partly measuring the concentrated nutrient water that created the runoff in the first place. I don't see any way around that.

Use the pour through method to test the coco EC (and pH):

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/crop/crop_PTS.htm

If anyone doubts this, run a test.

Saturate your plant and measure the runoff.

Wait 30-60 min. and properly run the pour through test.

Unless your plant is totally salt logged to begin with, I guarantee the EC / ppm number from the pour through test will be less than the number from the runoff. If multiple people run the test, we'll have a couple that come back with numbers that show the exact difference between the runoff and pour through results was the EC of the res. itself.

And because 100% coco grows seem to be pH stable, you might not see much of a difference between the adjusted pH of the res., the pH of the runoff and the pH from the pour through test.

I have tried it all ways and I always thought the same that only in soil is it important to check the run off but now I have changed my way of thinking what happens is when peeps are watering their plants they start running low on nutes in their watering container and or their rez lots of times they dont water enough to get run off so it keeps building up. For a mature adult plant it can handle it. Now the problem gets more serious when they go to reuse their mediums if they just simply rinse it out and don't check the runoff it could be so high on ppm that it is oor of their meters. This recently happened to me. so what you have now is possibly a seedling or a cutting in this out of range pot which will really put some stress on your babies maybe even kill them. To make matters worst lot's of times it's bllom nutes that are in there so not only is it way to strong but also the wrong nutes for that stage of the plants life. I would strongly suggest to check your runoff everytime you reuse your mediums or that 200.00 packs of gems your wanting to grow could being a bunch of dead seedlings!