Republicans and marijuana
- Thread starter sandawg
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sandawg
Member
The "phenomenon" of conservative politicians opposing MJ is not limited to the Unites States, apparently. Check the Sticky post under Cannabis Laws & Cannabis Legislation related to the new Canadian law. So we see the common thread now. This is so interesting to me. We have essentially spent 30 pages proving that political conservatives are the enemy here, but aren't any closer as to figuring out why.
Any logic in support of MMJ prohibition can also be said for alcohol or prescription drugs. I've already pointed out how conservatives (at least in the U.S.) support states over the fed gov't and supply-and-demand economic policies. So what belies the hypocrisy?
My theory, as I stated in the OP, is that conservatives fear the liberalization of the conscience via marijuana. Whether true or untrue, Republicans see marijuana as a threat to their ideology. And that is why Republicans oppose MMJ on hypocritical grounds. But I am willing to entertain other theories.
Any logic in support of MMJ prohibition can also be said for alcohol or prescription drugs. I've already pointed out how conservatives (at least in the U.S.) support states over the fed gov't and supply-and-demand economic policies. So what belies the hypocrisy?
My theory, as I stated in the OP, is that conservatives fear the liberalization of the conscience via marijuana. Whether true or untrue, Republicans see marijuana as a threat to their ideology. And that is why Republicans oppose MMJ on hypocritical grounds. But I am willing to entertain other theories.
sandawg
Member
I just came up with another theory, here it goes. . . .
1) Money is power. Conservatives (no matter what country or century) seek to maintain the status quo which keeps wealth concentrated, thereby keeping power concentrated.
2) MMJ, in California alone, is a billion-dollar industry. Since most MMJ dispensary owners are mom-and-pop, this will eventually lead to a redistribution of billions and billions and billions of dollars. Conservatives have an interest in stopping this redistribution of wealth. One way is to regulate dispensaries by imposing caps on the number of dispensaries allowed. Once you limit the number, big business can come in and take over. Once every dispensary is owned by Starbucks or Merck, you won't see conservative politicians sticking their necks out on this issue.
So like, you feel that conservative leaning people are afraid of pot because they fear it will change their ideology? Would this be similar to how kids become indoctrinated into judeo-christian theology when they are in the vicinity of christians and jews praying at school or on the playground? You know...similar to how regular citizens become bamboozeled into being christians when they see the Ten Commandments posted up at the courthouse?
That is the sort of thing we are talking about here?
Also, is this under the assumption that conservative people don't smoke pot, and really don't know about the culture?
That is the sort of thing we are talking about here?
Also, is this under the assumption that conservative people don't smoke pot, and really don't know about the culture?
sandawg
Member
I know you are really taking this hard, Hoosier, and my bleeding-heart goes out to you. Hmmm, maybe I was wrong about you. Your conservatism may be grounded in religion more than I originally assumed.
No, it is not similar to your assertions regarding religious indoctrination and that other nonsense that threatens to derail this thread. Why don't you take Disco's advice and stick to the issues rather than just blindly attacking those you disagree with? I gave two theories above and am more than willing to discuss those with you. I clearly called them "theories," meaning they are not proven. I am truly interested in the answer though, and I'm glad you stopped denying the fact that political conservatives are opposing MMJ, you were losing a lot of credibility with that
Edit: what does Gatewood Riley think about MMJ by the way?
No, it is not similar to your assertions regarding religious indoctrination and that other nonsense that threatens to derail this thread. Why don't you take Disco's advice and stick to the issues rather than just blindly attacking those you disagree with? I gave two theories above and am more than willing to discuss those with you. I clearly called them "theories," meaning they are not proven. I am truly interested in the answer though, and I'm glad you stopped denying the fact that political conservatives are opposing MMJ, you were losing a lot of credibility with that
Edit: what does Gatewood Riley think about MMJ by the way?
It's the Corporate owned Progressive establishment that is against legalization.
Nothing more nothing else. The two party dialogue repeats itself over and over again and it never goes anywhere. It reads like government talking points to keep the masses talking in circles.
It's remarkably efficient at keeping the dog chasing his own tail.
Nothing more nothing else. The two party dialogue repeats itself over and over again and it never goes anywhere. It reads like government talking points to keep the masses talking in circles.
It's remarkably efficient at keeping the dog chasing his own tail.
sandawg
Member
Dude, I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "Corporate owned Progressive establishment", and please do not attempt to explain. We are not debating the two-party system in this thread. Whether you like it or not, we are currently stuck with a two-party system. The two parties are Republicans and Democrats.
I came here with my OP and basically said, "Hey, I'm noticing it is Republicans opposing MMJ dispensaries and it is hypocritical, what gives?" For 30 pages or so, Republicans were in denial saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Eventually, with the help of some insightful people, we collectively showed that it is indeed Republican politicians opposed to MMJ. You shouldn't need to be told this. If you have been keeping up with the news related to MMJ and paying attention to who is saying what, it should be clear to you, it is no coincidence. So the big question, for me, is why are Republican lawmakers being hypocritical? All the Republican talking-points against MMJ are all BS. They are pretext. I am interested in the REAL reason they are opposing MMJ dispensaries. I have two theories out there. If you don't mind, let's try to sort this out. If you want to rant against the two-party system or whatever, create your own thread, kk? thx.
I came here with my OP and basically said, "Hey, I'm noticing it is Republicans opposing MMJ dispensaries and it is hypocritical, what gives?" For 30 pages or so, Republicans were in denial saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Eventually, with the help of some insightful people, we collectively showed that it is indeed Republican politicians opposed to MMJ. You shouldn't need to be told this. If you have been keeping up with the news related to MMJ and paying attention to who is saying what, it should be clear to you, it is no coincidence. So the big question, for me, is why are Republican lawmakers being hypocritical? All the Republican talking-points against MMJ are all BS. They are pretext. I am interested in the REAL reason they are opposing MMJ dispensaries. I have two theories out there. If you don't mind, let's try to sort this out. If you want to rant against the two-party system or whatever, create your own thread, kk? thx.
miltonchitlin
Member
A huge part of the reason we're broke is these tax cuts the republicans dole out like it's free money. They're easy to sell to the voting public but it's part of the reason we're in this mess. The other part of it is everyone asks what cost is this healthcare, but if it's a war no one asks what's the cost they just ship the young men off.
Cutting taxes while over 50% of the budget is going to defense is a problem and it's not a liberal policy.
Democrats want to control the money, republicans the mind. They don't want gay rights, pornography and it's not hypocritical to be against drugs and pot for a republican. What's left to say?
Now the republican state senator that's a staunch critic of gay rights being caught DUI after leaving the gay bar with his new boyfriend in the passenger seat, now that's hypocritical.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/roy-ashburn-arrested-anti_n_485419.html?ref=twitter
bankrupt means appealing to the courts to absolve debt or restructuring, California is just broke, with our great republican governator at the helm for the last 6 years.
Cutting taxes while over 50% of the budget is going to defense is a problem and it's not a liberal policy.
Democrats want to control the money, republicans the mind. They don't want gay rights, pornography and it's not hypocritical to be against drugs and pot for a republican. What's left to say?
Now the republican state senator that's a staunch critic of gay rights being caught DUI after leaving the gay bar with his new boyfriend in the passenger seat, now that's hypocritical.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/roy-ashburn-arrested-anti_n_485419.html?ref=twitter
bankrupt means appealing to the courts to absolve debt or restructuring, California is just broke, with our great republican governator at the helm for the last 6 years.
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sandawg
Member
Milton, I agree with your point that it appears hypocritical to decry liberal spending policies while supporting tax cuts and wars. I am not sure if your point helps explain Republican politicians' hypocrisy regarding their opposition to medical marijuana, especially MMJ dispensaries. It is easy to see why they are hypocritical regarding tax cuts and wars. Tax cuts favor big business and wars distract the country from domestic problems while providing billions or trillions in profits to companies that design and create fighter jets, tanks, weapons, etc. But it is not as easy for me to see why they are being hypocritical regarding MMJ dispensaries. In all fairness, Democrats can be hypocritical too and I really blame the Blue Dog Democrats for derailing health care.
The point here is not that Republicans are hypocrites. We all knew that. And as I said, Democrats are often hypocritical also. I am interested in discovering WHY Republicans are being hypocrites on this particular issue. The Republicans have drawn a line in the sand regarding MMJ dispensaries. They are against them. But why? What are they afraid of? Are they afraid marijuana threatens the right-wing ideology? Are they trying to prevent trillions of dollars from being redistributed? I was hoping a Republican would come on here and say, "THIS is why. We are afraid of THIS happening." But no one has. Instead, Republicans were denying the Party-of-No were against MMJ dispensaries. Now that it is hard to deny that fact, the thread is beginning to derail. I guess I will never know. /sob
The point here is not that Republicans are hypocrites. We all knew that. And as I said, Democrats are often hypocritical also. I am interested in discovering WHY Republicans are being hypocrites on this particular issue. The Republicans have drawn a line in the sand regarding MMJ dispensaries. They are against them. But why? What are they afraid of? Are they afraid marijuana threatens the right-wing ideology? Are they trying to prevent trillions of dollars from being redistributed? I was hoping a Republican would come on here and say, "THIS is why. We are afraid of THIS happening." But no one has. Instead, Republicans were denying the Party-of-No were against MMJ dispensaries. Now that it is hard to deny that fact, the thread is beginning to derail. I guess I will never know. /sob
The question is a straw man statement and not a question per se. Not all republican supporters are against marijuana.
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Everyone knows Republicans love the drug war and Democrats are hippies who want to legalize pot. Right? Not necessarily.
Milton Friedman and William F. Buckley are probably the best-known republicans to oppose the war on drugs, and they did so with eloquence that's seldom been matched across the political spectrum. Both men have passed however, and it's often assumed that the party of limited government and state's rights would remain strangely, yet steadfastly invested in the infinitely costly and oppressive war on drugs.
It's not that there aren’t notable exceptions; Ron Paul's rapid rise to national fame in 2008 demonstrated the vigor of libertarian-leaning conservatives who craved an opportunity to cast a vote for drug reform in the republican primaries. In addition to Paul, prominent conservatives Grover Norquist and Tucker Carlson have been strong supporters of reform (watch Carlson TKO drug warrior Mark Souder on MSNBC, for example). But the GOP's reputation as the party of braindead drug war demagoguery nonetheless remains cemented in the public consciousness thanks to the anti-drug posturing of party leaders like Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Mitt Romney.
Recent weeks have brought some encouraging signs that the drug policy reform argument is gaining ground with conservatives. FOX News' Glenn Beck recently interviewed Marijuana Policy Project's Rob Kampia and then came out in support of marijuana legalization a week later. Beck articulated the role of marijuana prohibition in subsidizing Mexican drug war violence in a segment that came off as remarkably pro-reform for FOX News. Proving it's not a fluke, we also saw LEAP's Norm Stamper on FOX News' Red Eye program delivering a superb indictment of the war on drugs that had host Greg Gutfeld nodding in agreement.
Meanwhile, conservative commentator and former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan penned a column last week quoting Milton Friedman and questioning the very foundations of the war on drugs. Though not thrilled about the idea of legalizing drugs, Buchanan suggests that Mexico's survival may depend on ending the drug war. Like Glenn Beck, Buchanan had not been previously known to support reform and seems to be getting the message now that the failure of prohibition in Mexico is becoming a threat to our own national security.
Obviously, much work remains to be done towards generating mainstream political support for drug policy reform among conservatives (and liberals, for that matter). Still, there can be no question that the tone of the conversation is shifting and new voices are entering the discussion. An economic crisis and an unstable border may provide focal points for an evolving dialogue, but there's more to it than just that. Consider, for instance, that the new administration recently pledged to end medical marijuana raids and it's just about the only thing Obama's done that hasn’t provoked attacks from republicans.
The political landscape with regards to drug policy reform is shifting in a subtle, yet powerful way. In many cases, our greatest obstacle hasn't always been pure political opposition, but rather a partisan political climate in which our issue is viewed as unstable terrain. The moment public opinion tips far enough – as with medical marijuana – the fear of political attacks evaporates because your opponents can’t use popular positions against you. Once it becomes clear that certain reforms carry no political risk, our infinitely feisty political culture focuses its hostility elsewhere and it becomes possible to do things like end medical marijuana raids without anyone saying a damn thing.
More importantly, as our political culture finally begins to embrace the need for an open and mature discussion about reforming drug policy, we'll begin to hear what influential people actual believe, instead of what they've been taught to say.
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TADA!
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Everyone knows Republicans love the drug war and Democrats are hippies who want to legalize pot. Right? Not necessarily.
Milton Friedman and William F. Buckley are probably the best-known republicans to oppose the war on drugs, and they did so with eloquence that's seldom been matched across the political spectrum. Both men have passed however, and it's often assumed that the party of limited government and state's rights would remain strangely, yet steadfastly invested in the infinitely costly and oppressive war on drugs.
It's not that there aren’t notable exceptions; Ron Paul's rapid rise to national fame in 2008 demonstrated the vigor of libertarian-leaning conservatives who craved an opportunity to cast a vote for drug reform in the republican primaries. In addition to Paul, prominent conservatives Grover Norquist and Tucker Carlson have been strong supporters of reform (watch Carlson TKO drug warrior Mark Souder on MSNBC, for example). But the GOP's reputation as the party of braindead drug war demagoguery nonetheless remains cemented in the public consciousness thanks to the anti-drug posturing of party leaders like Rudy Giuliani, John McCain and Mitt Romney.
Recent weeks have brought some encouraging signs that the drug policy reform argument is gaining ground with conservatives. FOX News' Glenn Beck recently interviewed Marijuana Policy Project's Rob Kampia and then came out in support of marijuana legalization a week later. Beck articulated the role of marijuana prohibition in subsidizing Mexican drug war violence in a segment that came off as remarkably pro-reform for FOX News. Proving it's not a fluke, we also saw LEAP's Norm Stamper on FOX News' Red Eye program delivering a superb indictment of the war on drugs that had host Greg Gutfeld nodding in agreement.
Meanwhile, conservative commentator and former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan penned a column last week quoting Milton Friedman and questioning the very foundations of the war on drugs. Though not thrilled about the idea of legalizing drugs, Buchanan suggests that Mexico's survival may depend on ending the drug war. Like Glenn Beck, Buchanan had not been previously known to support reform and seems to be getting the message now that the failure of prohibition in Mexico is becoming a threat to our own national security.
Obviously, much work remains to be done towards generating mainstream political support for drug policy reform among conservatives (and liberals, for that matter). Still, there can be no question that the tone of the conversation is shifting and new voices are entering the discussion. An economic crisis and an unstable border may provide focal points for an evolving dialogue, but there's more to it than just that. Consider, for instance, that the new administration recently pledged to end medical marijuana raids and it's just about the only thing Obama's done that hasn’t provoked attacks from republicans.
The political landscape with regards to drug policy reform is shifting in a subtle, yet powerful way. In many cases, our greatest obstacle hasn't always been pure political opposition, but rather a partisan political climate in which our issue is viewed as unstable terrain. The moment public opinion tips far enough – as with medical marijuana – the fear of political attacks evaporates because your opponents can’t use popular positions against you. Once it becomes clear that certain reforms carry no political risk, our infinitely feisty political culture focuses its hostility elsewhere and it becomes possible to do things like end medical marijuana raids without anyone saying a damn thing.
More importantly, as our political culture finally begins to embrace the need for an open and mature discussion about reforming drug policy, we'll begin to hear what influential people actual believe, instead of what they've been taught to say.
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TADA!
sandawg, what you need to do is first stop being a victim. Then you will stop looking for someone to blame for things you don't like.
You have a lot to learn about people. And probably lots more to learn about yourself.
You asked me what Gatewood thinks about mmj. Well, if you do anything at all take the 20 min. it takes to watch the video in the following link. Listen to every word, and especially the last 3-4 minutes. Rewind the last 4-5 min, replay.
It is not Republicans that are your problem, it is you.
What have you done besides play the victim and played the blame game?
After the video (From potfest in Atl 2003?), google declaration of independence, the federalist papers, and the us constitution. You will then know what both Gatewood and myself think about the whole thing.
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-3500.html
gramps, do watch this....
You have a lot to learn about people. And probably lots more to learn about yourself.
You asked me what Gatewood thinks about mmj. Well, if you do anything at all take the 20 min. it takes to watch the video in the following link. Listen to every word, and especially the last 3-4 minutes. Rewind the last 4-5 min, replay.
It is not Republicans that are your problem, it is you.
What have you done besides play the victim and played the blame game?
After the video (From potfest in Atl 2003?), google declaration of independence, the federalist papers, and the us constitution. You will then know what both Gatewood and myself think about the whole thing.
http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-3500.html
gramps, do watch this....
sandawg
Member
I did a two-second google investigation and saw he was a registered "independent." He sure looks like a Republican in that picture though. And so, I'm guessing by your last post, that he is an Independent possibly exploiting MMJ.
Wow, I really don't care about this guy, but seeing that Hoosier is all bent up on him, I would further guess that this "independent" is exploiting MMJ to enhance his base? Makes great sense. Can't get on the Kentucky Republican ticket, won't get elected in Kentucky as a Democrat, why not go Independent and ride the MMJ train? Yeehaw!
Hoosier, you ignored EVERYTHING in my post except my last comment about Gatewood Riley. Ok, let's assume Gatewood Riley isn't exploiting MMJ advocates for the lack of Republican support. Grats. Mind explaining the hypocrisy about the Republican position on MMJ now? Because that is what the thread is about. Stay on topic please, thanks buddy.
Wow, I really don't care about this guy, but seeing that Hoosier is all bent up on him, I would further guess that this "independent" is exploiting MMJ to enhance his base? Makes great sense. Can't get on the Kentucky Republican ticket, won't get elected in Kentucky as a Democrat, why not go Independent and ride the MMJ train? Yeehaw!
Hoosier, you ignored EVERYTHING in my post except my last comment about Gatewood Riley. Ok, let's assume Gatewood Riley isn't exploiting MMJ advocates for the lack of Republican support. Grats. Mind explaining the hypocrisy about the Republican position on MMJ now? Because that is what the thread is about. Stay on topic please, thanks buddy.
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nicktaste
IMO/IME most Republicans are anti cannabis. Also most of the biggest opponents or those seeking the most restrictions on MMJ also seem to heavily learn toward the right side of the political spectrum.
Also Republicans who say this isn't true are denying the facts, but I've seen Republicans do that many times.
Just my $.02
Also Republicans who say this isn't true are denying the facts, but I've seen Republicans do that many times.
Just my $.02
sandawg
Member
And Hoosier, I am sorry to inform you that all your assumptions about me are incorrect. I am sorry that it was hard to learn that Republicans oppose MMJ dispensaries. The hypocrisy must be shocking news. Jesus will make it all better, he told me so. Jesus will get your Gatewood Riley elected. Although I learned something the other day, I'm almost reluctant to share it with you. I'm afraid you will take it the wrong way. Okay, I'll tell you, but you have to come really, really close. I don't want anyone else to hear. Come close now Hoosier, I have to whisper it . . . GOD hates Republicans. Sad, but true, he does, he told me personally, he HATES them.
No my assumption is correct, YOU are the problem we have with MJ reform. And it is YOU and those like you we have to deal with first.
Still projecting, I see... 
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nicktaste
Totally uncalled for.
Republicans are more anti cannabis than Democrats are, this is common knowledge, not some conspiracy.
here is a link that shows the positions of the presidential candidates in 2008
not surprisingly, the Republicans (excepting Ron Paul) were mostly anti mmj, yeah I know its sad.
http://2008election.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=1692
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