question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[harvestreaper]

back,,25% todds haze 25% mango laos mixed with

northern outdoor genes ,,front mm oh repro that will be forced

 

[funkyhorse]

Triploid Haze
This is the most productive triploid i have, it is an F2 of the best girl from MadMac's Seedsman Hz x Ohz90
It is asymmetric
Top shot

Lowers

Have a nice june everybody

 

[harvestreaper]

todds toms macs all vying for position and a couple of hybrids

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Funky and Harvest, drench your plants in beauvaria bassiana spore and water in as well, you both getting your vigor sapped by thrip at least...looking hazey as F otherwise! Include trichoderma for added efficiacy and added mold resistance, not that you need it with those plants..

 

[funkyhorse]

Funky and Harvest, drench your plants in beauvaria bassiana spore and water in as well, you both getting your vigor sapped by thrip at least...looking hazey as F otherwise! Include trichoderma for added efficiacy and added mold resistance, not that you need it with those plants..

Hi there
Thank you very much for tip
I have thrips, aphids, white fly and any colour you want flies, mammals and insects predating big time
I live in a microclimate protected somehow in front of agrotoxic agriculture in a wide biodiversity natural area

My neighbours laugh at organics. Cant find any organic product here, my neighbours poison their kids with glyphosate. They call it curing the soybean. All beings being sprayed flee and escape to the only shelter they have here, the shelter is the area where I am

So I decided to do something I call buddhist grow. Live in peace and harmony with all beings, and plants that cant adapt to these conditions cant keep. A variety like Blueberry gets predated here by oppossums, carnivorous ants or guinea pigs. If plants dont have what I call landracity, resistance to my natural growing conditions, I cant grow them.
This is not a lab, this is a rainforest, wetlands with huge biodiversity

I am in a potato growing area. Full aphids here because they apply all those poisoning chemicals on their plants and they think they kill them but aphids are just moving out to the neighbours

So what to do? Kill everything you dont like as westerners do or live in peace and harmony accepting everyones fate and destiny like in the eastern buddhist world? I lived most of my life in Asia and I am trying the live in harmony way without killing beings

Some varieties act like pest attractors like Purple Highland Laos. And I have haze crosses right next to them free from pests.
If you like the subject I show you plants attacked and the plants next to them free from pests growing amazing buds, but I dont know if it off topic or not or where to post it

I have been taught about gypsum for PM. I have 7 Zamal plants. 2 girls and 5 boys. Only one of them is making PM, one of the girls. So I consider this natural selection by mother nature, this is a variety I can select that plant out and keep. Plants that attract so much pests are not the ones I will keep growing

 

[romanoweed]

imho its not fully true to think that Landraces are good survivors.

Infact i came to nearl opposite conclusion. I once thought why are snails attacking all vegetables, and leave wild plants behind? because they attack everything thats not wild..

Now, our Landraces arent wild/neither very native!!
thats why they get attacked alot, of corse some individual snail-taste might be at play too, they just love ganja anyway-

BUT i feel the snails attack gooooood smelling phenos more often then weak smelling , or "natural" smelling ones.

My colleg grew a Chocolate thai from me, anyt other strain was eleft behind, just the chocolate thai was attacked..

So, imho, i have not enough such info, but tend to think, that a very good landrace line will be eaten more often.. its not necessarly a goal of me to just select for survival, not even if i live at the source of Thai.. it MAY be part of the equation to select slightly for this too, but not as a main Goal, just a bit..
Landraces are good survivors compared to an indoor selected Strain, but its not the best survivor.. the best survivor is simply feral/wild plants

 

[harvestreaper]

Funky and Harvest, drench your plants in beauvaria bassiana spore and water in as well, you both getting your vigor sapped by thrip at least...looking hazey as F otherwise! Include trichoderma for added efficiacy and added mold resistance, not that you need it with those plants..

thankyou for the tip yes the fly traps are not doing enough and ive not heard of the spores so thanks also for the education ,,after a lil reading that some scary fungus lol

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Funky horse!!!!!

I want some beans from what you make in your garden!!!!!!!! Sometime..not begging against forum guidelines hahaha..Yup that there is where its at..natural resistance. Our country is over covid already, people started not giving a fuck round month 2 of lockdown..by now everyone is resistant and its just become another common cold.. I been diving deep into the CDS cannabis disease syndrome lately, and I firmly side with those that believe its because of our weak ass genetics and 40 years of severe inbreeding and genetic bottlenecking... Aphids are the biggest virus vector out, by far..and if you can get stuff that never shows disease symptoms while being heavily hit by aphid from surrounding farmlands..I saw yesterday confirmed for first time, but was expected the HLV, can transmit through seed with dope, in a small percentage of seed. And I wonder how far the disease syndrome from the complex of virii, goes back through the inbreeding and bottlenecking and also wonder if the taco leaf that can be traced back to the triangle kush, and the "small yields" of OG back in the day, and then subsequently cookies being grown etc..actually is to do with something else, as it would appear down the line always...to me it seems a few years down the line..and funny that is what happens in hops, though in hops most varietals dont show symptoms at all to HLV and are resistant or have immunity... So what you saying strikes a true chord with me..if you go that route I can recommend, persimillus mite, swirskii mites and aphidius wasps as well ladybirds lacewings etc... I've naturalized the tiny wasps by me after enough applications in the greenhouses, they are full up outside and I hope giving the aphids on surrounding farms a hard time..You can naturalize the predators and or help them along, I remember back inthe day making ladybird houses with cardboard and 2l bottles hanging, and if I can recall it worked.. I found some oaks near me, with oak aphid which is host specific, and there was a ladybird explosion on the trees so I collected a bucket of them and transferred to the greenhouse..They seem pretty resistant to my soft sprays, I cant spray any hard chems but have to keep the buds and mold at bay on a big scale in testing environment..the predators natural and introduced, work, as well the helpful fungi and bacteria...its about timing with them and consistancy, but they work I can attest to that..I have PM control now with biologicals and a little trick or two that is better than I ever got with systemic fungicides, that really says something..I can make a plant cure itself of PM, which in dope is systemic..I used to have to use heavy fungicides before to do that and still itd come back in moms..I only ever get it appear now very late flower here and there and can treat easily, microbe tests all have passed fine..and timing right to not get false positives on the microbes I apply.

But selecting for resistance is ultimately where it ends..

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Harvest, the thrip certain life stages, he has many, is in the soil, the early ones...get a high spore load to form a layer in the soil and anything that climbs in, dont climb out...the fungus works synergystically with trichoderma in nature even though trichoderma is a fungal parasite, so apply both..they help each other.if you in the states get bioceres, thats the best product ive trialed, its not available here, but that is the clear winner in trials. Also if in hot arid areas get hold of eco77 strain trichoderma if one can, it was isolated killing PM and botritus on grapes in a 40 degree vineyard in hot dry middle of summer..thats a very helpful strain to have, UV and dry and heat resistant fungal parasite of fungi..cant go wrong..

but funky horse is more right hahahaha

 

[Donald Mallard]

imho its not fully true to think that Landraces are good survivors.

Infact i came to nearl opposite conclusion. I once thought why are snails attacking all vegetables, and leave wild plants behind? because they attack everything thats not wild..

Now, our Landraces arent wild/neither very native!!
thats why they get attacked alot, of corse some individual snail-taste might be at play too, they just love ganja anyway-

BUT i feel the snails attack gooooood smelling phenos more often then weak smelling , or "natural" smelling ones.

My colleg grew a Chocolate thai from me, anyt other strain was eleft behind, just the chocolate thai was attacked..

So, imho, i have not enough such info, but tend to think, that a very good landrace line will be eaten more often.. its not necessarly a goal of me to just select for survival, not even if i live at the source of Thai.. it MAY be part of the equation to select slightly for this too, but not as a main Goal, just a bit..
Landraces are good survivors compared to an indoor selected Strain, but its not the best survivor.. the best survivor is simply feral/wild plants

gotta think out of the circle a bit more roman,
those plants may not have snails where they hail from
you were growing them out of their natural habitat ,
that will be why they were not able to defend themselves or had developed no way of doing so ....

 

[romanoweed]

yes, this might be another reason why they get eaten, But in any case, no Biologist would advice me a wild/feral Cannabis strain for smoking.
Even from the most sought after Regions the feral/wild Plants are generally not where you find good Weed. .

Well, try, a minimal Impulse might be interesting, more i cant say

 

[harvestreaper]

tha

Harvest, the thrip certain life stages, he has many, is in the soil, the early ones...get a high spore load to form a layer in the soil and anything that climbs in, dont climb out...the fungus works synergystically with trichoderma in nature even though trichoderma is a fungal parasite, so apply both..they help each other.if you in the states get bioceres, thats the best product ive trialed, its not available here, but that is the clear winner in trials. Also if in hot arid areas get hold of eco77 strain trichoderma if one can, it was isolated killing PM and botritus on grapes in a 40 degree vineyard in hot dry middle of summer..thats a very helpful strain to have, UV and dry and heat resistant fungal parasite of fungi..cant go wrong..

but funky horse is more right hahahaha

thanks again for taking the time to explain mjmf ,,very helpful indeed as im often found clapping the air in the tent like a lunatic lol

 

[funkyhorse]

I am not a breeder and I never intended to be breeding.
It is simply that if I dont make seed I cant get any new one because of customs so I better make seed for next year
If I have some decent plants it is a pure serendipity, I have no knowledge on botanics and breeders have the top notch stock and the knowledge to do it right. And another challenge/problem is the stuff I want is not being done, so I have to make it myself

This is what I mean
On the left (NL5xH 91 F3 TSC release x CTF5 Derg Corra) x (Seedsman Hz x Ohz90 from MadMac)
On the right pure Purple Highland Laos(PHL). I crossed the same mom of the girl of the left with PHL and I get mold in all those crosses but much better resistance than pure PHL

This PHL flower is pollinized with Smoh BX male. I doubt I will ever grow it unless I want to test if Ohz can make this strain more resistant

This is PHL growing next to CG72 x (Seedsman Hz x Ohz90). You can see PHL fan leaves attacked and nothing on the CG72 x Ohz next to it
All crosses including CG72 and Ohz are excellent here, great resistance. Real thais have great resistance as well

This flower is from Zamal girl 1 carrying seed made with green OT1haze. I will not grow it but this is the kind of cross I would like looking into and not being done in the breeding world when the tools for making it top notch are there. I doubt this stuff is comercial and would have interest, thats why is not being done I guess

But the seed her sister carries I will grow if I like the strain, she is clean from problems, mother nature test approval seal. All bugs have bit and ate a little bit of the leaves and stem of the Zamal girls and they never came back. PHL 2 meters away from them is a pest party

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Well you doing more breeding than all the other million "breeders" out there LOL...Selecting for what I need! hahaha Amazing pictures there, clear as day! The zamal may not have the appeal for market as you say..but if that trait of pest resistant is true breeding and itself inbred into the zamal..then all you needing is the other half of the equation to make something commercial with it..that the pests run away from..just put some (ECSD x zamal) x ECSD aka double sour zamal from wally out to flower last week..I was going to treat em on friday for their last spinosad..maybe I won't now and just observe them??? maybe you onto something..back to haze..LOL I notice the haze genepool im going through now, there seems to be the some lines are PM immune, and some are resistant..and maybe half the lines are weak for it..but all based off same ancestral genepool with different outcrosses of mine, or not. most neither here or there as to the bugs liking it, not a magnet but not repulsive to them..less bothered though than a lot of lines I run.

LOL you doing a good job of breeding aphid predators there too LOL that PHL shame she is getting consumed alive!! I might see one or three aphid mummies so you might have native predator wasps around..if you have ladybird make them homes..it really helps them multiply..but hey the choice of genetics for next season is clear! Where are you based man?

 

[regseeds]

Has @Sam_Skunkman ever talked or referenced the Hawaiian Indica he's used throughout his breeding career. I'm completely fascinated by this line little to no conversation on it.

 

[romanoweed]

Hawaiian Indica. Fascinated me too,
all i can say, you can probably find it in Seedsman - Hawaiian Skunk ,and The real Mc Coy - Flying Dutchman

Also it should be in the Spice - Mr . Nice.

I cant remember wich one of the three Strains hs the Hawaiian Indica, or any such info. I just recall that i caught interesse after seing a Pic from one of the three named Strains, and was so interestested, just from the look (like SE Asain genetics in it), that i took my selve much lotta readtime, and meditations to decide that i will buy The Real MC Coy , or Hawaiian Skunk, and also that the Spice yould be nice,

Seeds in Storage

 

[funkyhorse]

Well you doing more breeding than all the other million "breeders" out there LOL...Selecting for what I need! hahaha Amazing pictures there, clear as day! The zamal may not have the appeal for market as you say..but if that trait of pest resistant is true breeding and itself inbred into the zamal..then all you needing is the other half of the equation to make something commercial with it..that the pests run away from..just put some (ECSD x zamal) x ECSD aka double sour zamal from wally out to flower last week..I was going to treat em on friday for their last spinosad..maybe I won't now and just observe them??? maybe you onto something..back to haze..LOL I notice the haze genepool im going through now, there seems to be the some lines are PM immune, and some are resistant..and maybe half the lines are weak for it..but all based off same ancestral genepool with different outcrosses of mine, or not. most neither here or there as to the bugs liking it, not a magnet but not repulsive to them..less bothered though than a lot of lines I run.

LOL you doing a good job of breeding aphid predators there too LOL that PHL shame she is getting consumed alive!! I might see one or three aphid mummies so you might have native predator wasps around..if you have ladybird make them homes..it really helps them multiply..but hey the choice of genetics for next season is clear! Where are you based man?

Honestly, I have work and this is just a hobby for the lenght of the coronavirus pandemy, I think when money is the motive and the ultimate goal for making seed, quality is usually not there
I have the Mango Pepper which is out of catalogue flowering since mid february, probably will finnish around the end of the month. Around 135-140 days flowering that can be grown properly only outdoors in the tropics or warm subtropics is not what people is looking for
The Zamal males were full of pests indoors, I took them out and in a couple of days they got rid of all pests and are happy growing in the cold. It is clearly an outdoor variety, they are super happy outdoors even if cold

I am just finnishing my MBS x Zamal jar from Wally. It is the first time I finnish a indica x sativa jar. This pheno was flowering indoors 120 days and leaned to Zamal. It was a grow full of pests indoors. This plant only needed a weekly or once in 2 weeks shower wash to get rid of pests and she continued growing no problems. These genetics take care of themselves outdoors
Having tried Wally's Zamal cross encouraged me to try my Zamal seeds. From total 42 seeds only got 7 plants up from old seed

I am not breeding, I only observe nature. The one breeding here is Mother Nature. My old seeds are all mother nature survivors and mother nature is selecting them too.
There are full wasps here and plenty of other flying predators I dont know their names in any language.
By ladybird you mean ladybug? This one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccinellidae
If you mean this one, this is their natural habitat. I am a tourist here, I will leave after the pandemy is over probably but all ladybugs will remain at this place. They have plenty of food here, they will never leave. I even saw ladybugs with yellow green colour instead of black red. This is their house, why would I make them houses???
I go by the law of the most minimal effort. Landrace plants should take care of themselves as it happens in nature and growing in a landrace habitat means all of their needs are available for them

Without Icmag none of this would have been possible. You could call this nature breeding, or Icmag open source breeding because all of you guys are teaching me what to do and I trully appreciate it

But genetics for next season are not clear yet. Mangobiche CBG green pheno x Smoh BX looks very tempting
Triple California might be tempting too. Triploid x diploid haze so far is the only 100% sure strain for next season. I was thinking to call them Piff Cat Haze in honour of the guy who showed me the paper about this. I just read the abstract and did it. But maybe this thing of calling strains after peoples names is not right. So he will choose the name for this crosses, just very few seed was made but for sure will be fun to grow the progeny

I follow the advice of a southafrican Covid doctor called Dr Shankara Chetty from indian origin
I am not vaccinated and I will never go through a PCR. I never got sick
But following this advice means I am landlocked and cant leave the country I am in, because of all the pressure put by local authorities with this vaccine scam. So I rented a house for the coronavirus pandemy, built some greenhouses and this is going to last until the pandemy is over. I am trying to make the best out of the pandemy and I am enjoying this experience very much

Have a nice day everybody and again Thank you Icmag people for the knowledge how to grow and what to do

 

[romanoweed]

@funkyhorse

I hope you dont mind a speclative long post. Just skip it if you dislike

I have no Anwser regarding, if you can keep your Zamal and Highland Laos healthy by Natural Selection.


My Feelings says this is hard. I personally believe most Selections that modern Breeding does are more like taking something away.
Per example hermies, taken away.. Or Indica x Sativa, taken away the long flowering Phenos.

I think to etablish something, like making a new Trait, only a big population in a Country does truely etablish something..

Professional Breeders do atleast heighten the Yeald, but imho, the new apperance of modern Hybrids, is all due to habridisation, due to combining the best Landraces in the best Combinations and percentages. Thats creating, alltho i dont like it.

Now you stand infront of a unhealthy, or unsuited Zamal..

Either you can change the problem in the Enviroment, or now the important Question: was the Zamal healthy short before you got it? I think then your Natural Impulse might work in your Favor, and you just have to pull these Healthy Traits out..
If your healthy Traits were there long ago, of corse, then its pointless.. By the day your Zaml is healthy ,that day it would be weak like wild survivors, no good weed. For some reason professional breeders are carefull with "open pollinations" free of human Selection.

I think, i would ask around if everyone has beaten up Zamals, and go from there.. I find it relatively unlikely that it becomes healkthy so easily, like i said, thats cause its hard for us "modern Growers" to really create something..

you can pull it out a bit if its still there.. do you have 100 percent Fly-attacks in your progeny?

I would still do it, to try out a small impulse from natur.. Plant 200s Seeds in the wild, you get probably one survivor, but you can check daily, i said daily, and stop at some point, and the last plant standing you take. Its likely such a plant has overall better survival Traits?

So, this could help us all to understand wether or not a natural selection is interesting, or just uneffective..
Once you know that, you still probably are far away from saving Zamal, but you got a feeling for it, and could incoporate this method very slightly in your Selections that have slight signs of Unhealthyness?

All i know snails are the bigges enimy of Cannabis in the wild, it takes couple Days often and 199 Seeds are vanished if i just plant in the Wild. Ive seen this with Hemp that reseeded itselve.. They all die due to Snails, and from the 1000 Seeds 5 Seeds make it to one Foot, and of those die later also due to a combination of beeing overgrown , plus Snails , and only one two Plants make it into full grown Plant.

So, any resitency to Flyes is a way less important Survival Trait then Snail Resistency.
So, its a good Test method for "Natural Selection",

What i also remeber , a college said, if you plant seeds directly into soil, instead of paper Towel method, then they dont attract as many Snails. He thinks this Paper Towel Method introduces Stress, and this Stress can be percieved by the Snails. And the plants get eaten faster..

I find it an interesting experiment! plant the seeds in ground, and stop the Snailattack at the point where you loose to many Seeds.
This Trait (that Plant) can be combined with you usual selection for potency, and smell .. Use it as mother so you have clear labeling

It IS possible this is part of Landraces Class, and Quality. I doo believe that selecting for multiple Traits, such as Robustness, Smell, lovelyness or whatever is how you keep the Intensity and class of a Srain intact, so, natural selection is probably good, as a Part.
But again, the Landraces regions did plant Cannabis often in Gardens, and Fields, and probably therefore knew very well that a bit of Sawdust zones, or just plain Earth around the Gardens would act as Snailbarrier and kept most Snails away, so .. I understand their Survival Impulse rather as: growing fast when young, no stagnation, rapid growth into secure heights, or the similar ability to overgrow and compeete if another plant is too close.. also a resistency against those Flyes.. The Landraces werent left in the wild, they were acording my vague Informaton relatively pampered.

So,
What comes to mind right now is that wild plants even get relatively often attacked by those flyes.. Also oither wild Plantspecies often lack in such resitencies.. hmm..

BUT , now comes the but, your idea is still interesting, thats cuase yout Zamal possibly went trough absense of such natural impulses. The modern breeders (we) made place for any ever so slight smaller and slower plant in the Growroom.. they threated the flyes, instead to select against it.

So, i would also do a selection where you plant the Plants realtively close, and select the best compeeting plants? You have to lock wich Plant gets more shaded, so you accrately determine the Level of competition. The ones with much shadow, but growing well beyond others, those probably bring important traits.

And back to Snails selection, this might still be a important Part , cause still in Landrace Regions, there were some accidental Snails..
I would favor the Shade-Competition-Selection, plus of corse a Anti-Flyes Selection.. Take a bit of everything. Thats atleast a very interesting Experiement. and the more Traits , the more complex. the more complex is always interesting

And if your Zamal Line is inbreeding Depressed, none of this is really solving the fundamental problem.. Then its to agree , like pampering a person thats slowely dying..

At the end, strongly promoting Terroir-impulses, leads also to a stronger adaptation to your foreigen, alltho similar Climate. So, for me it stays an experiment, and it might help YOU for YOUR Goeals of creating a good personal Smoke and Grow, but for preservation, its questionable out this reason , and an Experiment. A very interesting one. I believe it can teach us alot.

 

[regseeds]

Hawaiian Indica. Fascinated me too,

It's one of the main pillars of cannabis breeding. Look at the success Soma had with the Hawaiian Indica Male. Sam is still using the line, Top Dawg, so many others who I respect, Speaks volumes to me. Lots of Intrigue

We've had the haze story beaten like a piñata for 20 years, but not a single sentence on the Hawaiian, strange.

Would love to hear if @Sam_Skunkman acquired it from Roger during the golden years. Why he's still using it, has it been worked forward, anything.

What he believes true origins of the Hawaiian NLD side is. Anything relating to the line would be great.

 

[goingrey]

It's one of the main pillars of cannabis breeding. Look at the success Soma had with the Hawaiian Indica Male. Sam is still using the line, Top Dawg, so many others who I respect, Speaks volumes to me. Lots of Intrigue

We've had the haze story beaten like a piñata for 20 years, but not a single sentence on the Hawaiian, strange.

Would love to hear if @Sam_Skunkman acquired it from Roger during the golden years. Why he's still using it, has it been worked forward, anything.

What he believes true origins of the Hawaiian NLD side is. Anything relating to the line would be great.

Are they all using the same "Hawaiian Indica" or different ones?

Who is Roger?