B
Benny106
Agreed, would love to know more.
question for sam the skunkman on the original haze
- Thread starter bigherb
- Start date
Agreed, would love to know more.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
From memory some of the old lumbos were different, then they started getting more incense tones....probably wen they started hybrizing to thais...some of the more older types could still be found in in other parts of south america...they wer of more mango-y type tones
Isnt oth made up of part lumbo...didnt one parent match a similar columbian gold...wile some remains unknown. Oth looks to me like it contains alot of what used to be known as cheeba columbian...what that actually was anyone know ?
The strains from Brazil, Paraguay I think, and some Central American strains clustered tightly with African strains on Phylos. I think there even was an older genetic study that found African cannabis alleles in Colombian pot, so that might be the oldest layer but I'm not sure if the core African strain is where the fruitiness comes from.
Those gold Colombians and Oldtimers hazes on the other hand seem genetically similar to Thai and Cambodian. If we are to trust that maybe the bulk of the genes did come from Asia at some point.
For all I know people could have called the green phenotypes Colombian Gold, and the purple ones Colombian red, rainbow bud or whatever. Aren't all these green and purple phenotypes present in Oldtimer's haze and most of the landraces that are being grown (And exported, especially in the case of Bengal and Thailand) in south eastern Asia?
When you grow out thousands of cuts of plants it is common to get a few variegated plants, in my experience, and it normally coincides with a high thrip or other pest load in the surrounding area..I use a beast mode IPM so the thrip never get a cycle started but they for sure bite here and there, but I often see variegated plants, in all genetic lines, but often in plants with some blueberry or haze, or both..But most clones will throw one or two out in a few thousand once the bugs are biting so my guess is virus, and the plants seem to show less vigor after showing the variegation, so I assume virus, though it does not seem to affect plants next to them so maybe not then again..
Fruityness is not a common african trait, I've gotten a long time ago some fruity swazi sections of real swazi, but that is a fraction of fruityness I encounter in thai or asian stuff over the years..Spicyness yes, pepper yes, lemons and oranges yes, anise yes, hashyness, yes but funky fruityness is not common in sub saharan african weed. That said there are transkei sativa genelines that have amazing guava terps but those are localised to specific gardens and villages..My guess is the fruityness that you might encounter in S american progeny of the mix mash of genetics left from US state and pharma breeding and testing in the hills there before back in the day, came from the thais..a full body punch and soaring ceiling less high with hypnotic effect and couch lock, could come from the stronger african ancestors..not all sub saharan sativa like that but there is like that, there used to be lots of variety..from weak to super weak to pretty damn strong..not the most flavourful stuff though generally..
Traits that are not uncommon in the various sub saharan africans...
Pink hairs, these turn up pretty regularly but not always but quite often, and often in crosses with..
The spicyness pepper terps..
Crossing with the africans though actually remembering, I got soapy terps, fruity terps too, not in your face fruity but some mixed fruity terps yes..I got rose and floral terps commonly crossing africans with asians and affies..I got melon terps occasionally, beautiful and very very pleasant cantaloupe terps, and also full on watermelon terps, which was a crowd favorite..I think getmo got the last of those beans with the bou but they were too old to germ..
I got strong stuff crossing with malawi and swazi, and crossing with transkei generally took the edge off a strain, crossed that to g13 and it made monsters with football sized fluffy buds that were very resinous and tasty but not the strongest herb but strong enough, could smoke all day though very pleasant, it all sold out quick..But crossing with more thai stuff is where the super fruity stuff for me comes..
The african sativas are generally mold and pest resistant and can grow into trees, swazi had always wider leaves and grew into the biggest trees, transkei are generally more petit as well as the poisons but still vigourous..the more south you go the shorter flower time, malawi long flower, swazi about 12 weekers, transkei and durban shorter flowering plants..In the transkei the locals grow year round and just have good and bad season, better buds at end summer than in spring LOL..though in those areas nowadays western hybrids been mixed in for a long time, 2 decades at least, the bulldog coffeeshop guys were bringing indica and skunk to swaziland a long time ago so there been hybrids in the field for long time..
Just adding to the speculation for you..
Pink hairs, these turn up pretty regularly but not always but quite often, and often in crosses with..
The spicyness pepper terps..
Crossing with the africans though actually remembering, I got soapy terps, fruity terps too, not in your face fruity but some mixed fruity terps yes..I got rose and floral terps commonly crossing africans with asians and affies..I got melon terps occasionally, beautiful and very very pleasant cantaloupe terps, and also full on watermelon terps, which was a crowd favorite..I think getmo got the last of those beans with the bou but they were too old to germ..
I got strong stuff crossing with malawi and swazi, and crossing with transkei generally took the edge off a strain, crossed that to g13 and it made monsters with football sized fluffy buds that were very resinous and tasty but not the strongest herb but strong enough, could smoke all day though very pleasant, it all sold out quick..But crossing with more thai stuff is where the super fruity stuff for me comes..
The african sativas are generally mold and pest resistant and can grow into trees, swazi had always wider leaves and grew into the biggest trees, transkei are generally more petit as well as the poisons but still vigourous..the more south you go the shorter flower time, malawi long flower, swazi about 12 weekers, transkei and durban shorter flowering plants..In the transkei the locals grow year round and just have good and bad season, better buds at end summer than in spring LOL..though in those areas nowadays western hybrids been mixed in for a long time, 2 decades at least, the bulldog coffeeshop guys were bringing indica and skunk to swaziland a long time ago so there been hybrids in the field for long time..
Just adding to the speculation for you..
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Swazi redbeard x Ohaze seems appropriate here
It turned out smoking very much like the pure haze. I was maybe expecting a little more shock value from these but no one got obliterated from smoking the Swaze. No incense or other peculiar smells in the smoke itself either, which was also something I was looking for.
It turned out smoking very much like the pure haze. I was maybe expecting a little more shock value from these but no one got obliterated from smoking the Swaze. No incense or other peculiar smells in the smoke itself either, which was also something I was looking for.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Do you know what swazi was used in these...the hybrid does look nice..
Maryjane ..talking about hybrids in sa...your right...even for example the swazi going around nowadays seems to be different to what I used to know....what I used to know had more of the candlebra type shape , quite long colas with a quite tall central cola, but not alot of yield on them with quite small buds....
It was African Seeds Swazi rooibaard. Even this line is different from the Afropips one. Wilder looking I'd say.
Rooibaard also ,was/is just a generalized term here for weed that had a mass of redhairs on it..Half the other weed available would still be picked when the hairs were white, so it was kind of a measure of at least a certain degree of quality, though that said some swazi lines and others really really made masses of red hairs and those were also known as rooibaard (red beard)
The swazi going around these days is hybrid..there is some rare examples of swazi unhybridized in the field but few and far between and those were the crappier examples of the old genetic lines generally. I've not seen good real swazi in 15 years? The old school really good swazi lines were lost in the 2000's due to DEA crop spraying, if they read this FUCK YOU DEA ****S WE WON.. They can't try that shit anymore but too late they destroyed something that we cant get really get back again, we got a court injunction against it from now on till the end of time here and in swaziland the king eventually told them to get F'd..It was not called royal swazi for a reason and the prince oversaw it LOL..heres the DEA spraying his crops.
The guys responsible for the royal swazi reached out to me in late 2000's as I knew a guy they knew well, Billy RIP you legend, anyways he always came past my place and smoked my bud from all the crosses I made and was making and I'd give him seed when he asked, and one day I owed him a bunch of money for some bricks of the royal that had actually been grown unbeknown to me from my seed that he had been given the year before, and so he took a bunch of seed in leu to settle the debt, about a shopping bags worth..Those amazing sweet bricks were hitting europe as "jamaican" so it just showed to not believe the source all the time when it comes to seeds from distant landraces that have come in sections of weed..
According to them they had traveled up and down swaziland looking for the old good stuff for seed to plant and there was just nothing left, everything that survived the spraying over the decade before was just jut (scwag?)
Post that point 2010 odd all swazi that makes it out the country is naturalized hybrid with a fair amount of swazi in it, as the environment over a few years would select for that..The other genetic that thrived up there to be the main hybrid mixed was a chocolope shishkeberry..So, wow just realized that it brings my ramble back on topic LOL the modern swazi has some haze in it, and bunch of thai,and others if chocolope is cindy99xthaihighflyer not some cannalope haze BS story, as cindy is but a jack herer line which is a haze hybrid..but more durban that haze LOL..
But all that way off the haze topic..
I have in the last two years had weed from southern tanzania that was almost identical to the proper swazi of old...but swazi of old there was big buds, small buds, green, red purple, maroon, mostly dark to lime green, but sometimes youd have outlier lines but there were many kinds of swazi within the same general genepool . My first hydro was a swazi that was spectacular that tasted of orange cognac. The first swazi I ever smoked I literally tripped, but that was more tolerance I think as before that we just had weak transkei, maybe 5% stuff..I used to get a swazi for a few years in early 2000's that the guy used to get himself from the same farmer everytime that still for those few years while available, was the best swazi I ever smoked..more resinous that most stuff today, big fat calyxes on spear maroon buds..I moved away from the supplier 2003 and when i moved back the guy could not get it anymore..The stuff getting bricked up late 2000's was abysmal quality.
The swazi going around these days is hybrid..there is some rare examples of swazi unhybridized in the field but few and far between and those were the crappier examples of the old genetic lines generally. I've not seen good real swazi in 15 years? The old school really good swazi lines were lost in the 2000's due to DEA crop spraying, if they read this FUCK YOU DEA ****S WE WON..
They can't try that shit anymore but too late they destroyed something that we cant get really get back again, we got a court injunction against it from now on till the end of time here and in swaziland the king eventually told them to get F'd..It was not called royal swazi for a reason and the prince oversaw it LOL..heres the DEA spraying his crops.The guys responsible for the royal swazi reached out to me in late 2000's as I knew a guy they knew well, Billy RIP you legend, anyways he always came past my place and smoked my bud from all the crosses I made and was making and I'd give him seed when he asked, and one day I owed him a bunch of money for some bricks of the royal that had actually been grown unbeknown to me from my seed that he had been given the year before, and so he took a bunch of seed in leu to settle the debt, about a shopping bags worth..Those amazing sweet bricks were hitting europe as "jamaican" so it just showed to not believe the source all the time when it comes to seeds from distant landraces that have come in sections of weed..
According to them they had traveled up and down swaziland looking for the old good stuff for seed to plant and there was just nothing left, everything that survived the spraying over the decade before was just jut (scwag?)
Post that point 2010 odd all swazi that makes it out the country is naturalized hybrid with a fair amount of swazi in it, as the environment over a few years would select for that..The other genetic that thrived up there to be the main hybrid mixed was a chocolope shishkeberry..So, wow just realized that it brings my ramble back on topic LOL the modern swazi has some haze in it, and bunch of thai,and others if chocolope is cindy99xthaihighflyer not some cannalope haze BS story, as cindy is but a jack herer line which is a haze hybrid..but more durban that haze LOL..
But all that way off the haze topic..
I have in the last two years had weed from southern tanzania that was almost identical to the proper swazi of old...but swazi of old there was big buds, small buds, green, red purple, maroon, mostly dark to lime green, but sometimes youd have outlier lines but there were many kinds of swazi within the same general genepool . My first hydro was a swazi that was spectacular that tasted of orange cognac. The first swazi I ever smoked I literally tripped, but that was more tolerance I think as before that we just had weak transkei, maybe 5% stuff..I used to get a swazi for a few years in early 2000's that the guy used to get himself from the same farmer everytime that still for those few years while available, was the best swazi I ever smoked..more resinous that most stuff today, big fat calyxes on spear maroon buds..I moved away from the supplier 2003 and when i moved back the guy could not get it anymore..The stuff getting bricked up late 2000's was abysmal quality.
Old swazi genepool had a decent localised variation from farmer to farmer, village to village, and the old durban poison is but an expression within that genepool in my opinion and what you describe is more that side of things between the transkei further south and the swazi up north there is the midlands weed,Natal the province of which the city of durban is in, shares border with swaziland..or eSwatini now rather I think, sorry..the poison sold in durbs most likely grown further inland as durban is on the sea subtropical and urban, small grows here and there but no big fields to support an urban market..those were/are in the mielie (corn) fields of the villages further inland in the valley of a thousand hills and other places like..pinetown surrounds and and etc..But I'm not a Natalian so not my field of expertise. But that which you describe is more of the sub tropical southern african small bud nugget genelines that poison is of..But its all in the greater swazi genepool, I crossed everything with swazi back in the day as it was what we had to breed with along with what we could scrounge from amsterdam, canada and cali, and often in f2/3/4 generations of crosses etc you'de get the small nug dense and resinous individuals or lines segregating, that would tend to be the fruity ones, or anise ones, or melon, or or..the big budded forms would typically tend to be the floral, soapy, perfumed, or citrus lines..The native transkei weeds also the same the lemony ones are the larger more common lines and I found the more nuggetty lines, completely wild, would be the guavas or berries or others..
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Im guessing your over in africa....ive seen something they call swazi skunk(nothing like anthing they call skunk here) that had some very potent plants in the line...a very stretchy thing with huge internodes..would that still be around there?...do you know if what they called kariba suprise is still around over there from out of Zimbabwe....ive seen some that seem to hold that antique leathery taste but now seem to be a mish mash hybrid of similar lines with others.
There were some very good gems coming out of africa but its getting harder and harder to find any lines that are really stand out now.
Suppose we should really get back on topic.
unnamedmike
Well-known member
Thanks for sharing your experience, I really appreciate it.
I think that the variegation is a genetic trait, latent or visible, and is triggered by some external factor / stress, such as pests, pathogens, etc. In the case of my ssh n8, it is triggered by a lot of light and little calcium, it is very strange that she shows variegation, only in this case. I don't think it's a virus, viruses don't cause pretty mutations, 99.9% of genetic mutations are lethal. And as you say, it is not contagious.
All my plants come from seed, I have never exchanged cuttings with anyone, and I do not live in an agricultural zone. In case you want to see more variegated plants, visit the hashtag #variegatedcannabis
ssh n8, the sometimes variegated plant
Quick excursion..swazi skunk was a general term that referred to good swazi, but as skunk got out there in the 80's already, it was also referring to the skunkier lines ten, twenty years later or more..There would have been more market demand for the swazi skunk as opposed to the normal swazi though the good old swazi always had a market, R50 bankies (very cheap bank bags containing maybe 15-20grams) were always in demand from guys buying "parcels" and splitting them up. In the old days it was what all us rebellious whiteys did to help the cause, we sent out R50 notes, as many as we could back to swaziland and the "homelands" like the transkei in return for some of their long thin sticky buds...The real rebellious went over there themselves and hungout and came back with car doors packed..There are good waves in the transkei, world class spots so it helped. These days it refers more to the more hybrid swazi as opposed to the more wild swazi. Swazi skunk could well have had some skunk in it, these days defineately, in the old days sometimes not, but it was skunk thats for sure! Skunk here just means good weed pretty much in the general weed smoking population..
Kariba surprise is just the seedbanks name they came up with I am sure or would guess, never heard of it before them, but good zimbabwe dope will still be around, its underground still illegal for the masses and heavily enforced, so it will still be grown by smokers for themselves and not much commercially and not much hybridization I would guess and by speaking to people from there and making enquiries myself they do not see western weed there, it will still be pretty wild as it was BUT better get there quick! They have opened up licenced THC cultivation and hemp on a big scale and the gov is trying to get it to replace tobacco as soon as possible, which maybe a pipedream but it means there will in the next year and every there after be a whole lotta hemp pollen flying around there or foreign genetics arriving that never did before.
There are still landrace genetics in the back hills of the transkei and Simon ex strainhunters has been working tirelessly trying to get political will behind the preservation of the local pure lines left in the places far off the tourist trail..working with lawyers lobbying gov..working with communities living off their goodwill and good hash. His old employers turned their back on him after making pretty penny off all his legwork. As it goes..Shame he has had major success in the last year and also major setbacks and personal injury but overcome. There has been epic video made by companies involved with outreach and community support through their CBD profits, of the deep in the lallies gardens and communities where that is what they do, grow dope and a few goats and that is what they have always done..sadly the footage not yet publicly released though.
The leathery terps I don't know from southern african weed, think that pops up in the tropical africans, congo, nigerian etc..Southern african weed is not particularly terpy..even when it has some terps it does not tend to be loud, I've never seen a loud or particularly flavorsome local landrace aside from citrus and a rare special guava that is found in TK..Yeah I am in Africa..
Haze is very removed from southern african sativa. id think..
Back to haze sorry..
not sure if this we should call "original haze" but definitely original haze descendant without any northern lights or skunk in it, which is almost miracle. this is extreme tropical phenotype of Mac´s 90´haze x tom hill haze. 6 weeks of 11/13 and nothing while her sisters are flowering nicely. it is the most incense reeking plant in veg I have ever experienced. incredible strong smell!
while her sisters are flowering nicely. it is the most incense reeking plant in veg I have ever experienced. incredible strong smell!
Montuno
...como el Son...
In which parts of South America outside Colombia?
...The Mangobiche I think is one of the fruitiest in Colombia (?)... I haven't tried it yet, although in my country CannaBioGen has made it relatively popular...
not sure if this we should call "original haze" but definitely original haze descendant without any northern lights or skunk in it, which is almost miracle. this is extreme tropical phenotype of Mac´s 90´haze x tom hill haze. 6 weeks of 11/13 and nothing
I spent some time yesterday pruning and cleaning up my OHaze plants , I filled up a garbage bag of greenery and I’m not done yet ,cut the male down in half and I think I’m going to cull out the fasciated plant because it’s such a mutant , but I will keep it as a clone
not sure if this we should call "original haze" but definitely original haze descendant without any northern lights or skunk in it, which is almost miracle. this is extreme tropical phenotype of Mac´s 90´haze x tom hill haze. 6 weeks of 11/13 and nothing
Wow Maha! You have a sexy haze queen!
