Origins of the Virus

[Chi13]

i will say this again, for all those that seem to forget everything else said and focus on only on ones latest post.

i really hope you are right about the governments of the world giving up all their new tools of surveillance and oppression,

but history tends to show us that its very rare. comparing this to Spanish flu is no reassurance either. that was 100 years ago when a few thousand men could have a successful revolution in a few weeks. the federal government of today is way more powerful and way less accountable to the citizens and has a thousand times more power, military and police then they did in those days. so no, that they retuned some rights to people 100 years ago doesn't reassure me that all this tracking and tracing of every step, will stop. our right to assemble freely, privately and in protest have all been made into privileges which the government can turn on and off as they see fit from now on, this can't be un done, the precedent is set.

for the record, the only reason the subject turned to the war on terror is because someone felt it was a good thing to declare a domestic war on terror.

of course law breakers, including potential rebels, terrorist and separatists need to be investigated and stopped by the government. but LEO actually have a frightening array of powerful tools at their disposal to fight crime etc already, there is no reason to declare a war. just like there was no reason to declare war on terror. war on drugs. etc.

do you really want to see news of blown up houses saying: hank tumbelweed was killed in a drone strike on his residence, sadly his wife and 3 kids were collateral damage, the neighbours for 1 km around, all have broken windows and explosion debry spread all over their yards, including parts of mr tumbelweed and his family. tumbelweed was radicalized when his sister was accidentally killed in a anti terror operation by the special forces hunting down the number 2 man in the old glory militia, bla blah blah and on it goes until you turn the whole population against you and make them in to terrorists, just like happened in many places where the US decided to air strike instead of arresting suspects.

weddings, funerals, school buses, each time you create hundreds more people who hate your guts. in war accidents will happen, its guaranteed. you can't unkill people. you can set them free after arrest if they are not guilty. big difference.

you guys have laws disallowing the use of those type of tools of terror on your own population, don't let them trick you into cancelling those protections that they guaranteed you when they made the exemptions for foreigners after 911.

I marched against the War on Terror, as I saw it as counter productive for precicely the reasons you have outlined. I grew up during the Vietnam war era and saw family and friends oppose that as well.

The War on Drugs has been a complete failure as well.

What I don't see is how anyone can equate Government response to the virus as anything remotely like either of those examples.

The reason I posted the info about McCarthyism was to point out that Governments have cracked down on dissent in the past. It lasted a while then it stopped. During that era people from the Left were targeted. You have argued on a lot of threads from a distinctly Right wing perspective (please correct me if I am wrong). If you were around in that era would you have supported the crackdown on dissidents because they were of the Left, or would you have opposed it because it was repression? One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter (or however that goes). I am aware I am way off topic as well and a lot of this stuff seems to span multiple threads so appologies.

 

[Brother Nature]

I marched against the War on Terror, as I saw it as counter productive for precicely the reasons you have outlined. I grew up during the Vietnam war era and saw family and friends oppose that as well.

The War on Drugs has been a complete failure as well.

What I don't see is how anyone can equate Government response to the virus as anything remotely like either of those examples.

The reason I posted the info about McCarthyism was to point out that Governments have cracked down on dissent in the past. It lasted a while then it stopped. During that era people from the Left were targeted. You have argued on a lot of threads from a distinctly Right wing perspective (please correct me if I am wrong). If you were around in that era would you have supported the crackdown on dissidents because they were of the Left, or would you have opposed it because it was repression? One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter (or however that goes). I am aware I am way off topic as well and a lot of this stuff seems to span multiple threads so appologies.

I can completely see how someone could equate the three, simply for the fact the first two exist. The Patriot act was drawn up as a way to 'protect' US citizens from terrorism (ironically, terrorism it actually created), but has been used and abused to deny and take away rights guaranteed to US citizens in it's own constitution. I don't think I even need to comment on the war on drugs. I don't think that the restrictions placed on citizens will remain (I'm feeling optimistic today), but I can totally see how someone feeling a little more cynical could take the view above. And with McCarthyism, it may have physically stopped, but it's effect still sits in the American subconscious. Communism is still one of the most underlying irrational fears Americans have, it's been utilized to win elections ever since, including this last one. Homosexuality is still considered widely un-masculine and some what deviant, to the point it's still news when someone half-way famous comes out as gay. I think society is going to have to change it's perspective if it's going to succeed, there shouldn't be left and right ways of thinking or viewing things, there should be rational and common sense ways to look at society and it's issues.

 

[mowood3479]

Chi13 You marched against the war on terror and yet that war still rages.
forgive me for not jumping for joy that we have started another perpetual war against an invisible enemy that can’t be defeated and requires the sacrifice of all our civil liberties.
seems awfully convenient from a govt war making perspective

i think government will justify there extended use of “emergency” powers (In regards to limits on assembly, travel, masking, vaccinations) by claiming that the threat is not over. That seems to be the standard operating procedure...
and it worked for the war on drugs and the war on terror... why would they alter the playbook now.

the threat will never be over.
that’s how two weeks to flatten the curve turned into 14 months and counting,
hope I’m wrong but no one in govt will give any metrics by which they will come off their lockdown policies

Fauci says when we have a lower infection rate... but he wouldn’t specify the rate that would be acceptable to get our freedom back....
and when exactly did Fauci get elected head decider anyway? He is supposed to be a scientist but he can’t give the metrics by which the pandemic would be considered safe enough to resume normal human life... seems like he is just making shit up as he goes to me

 

[mowood3479]

it just means that once you focus on a certain agenda on a subject it keeps feeding you more of that way of looking at things. Perhaps why you are sure there is a new announced war on national terrorism, while Amy has not heard this; which also has little to do with the subject of the origin of the virus. I already spent my 2 cents on that a few pages back.

There are verifiable new policies in regards to domestic terrorism and plenty of rhetoric too regarding a war on domestic “terror” from high level politicians..
just because ur too ignorant to know doesn’t make it less true,
wtf kind of argument is that?
What kind of person chooses to not be informed, and then questions the veracity of those who are paying attention...
seems like a real sheep brain thing to do
Anyway check out antiwar.com if you’d like to be kept informed

 

[Microbeman]

There are verifiable new policies in regards to domestic terrorism and plenty of rhetoric too regarding a war on domestic “terror” from high level politicians..
just because ur too ignorant to know doesn’t make it less true,
wtf kind of argument is that?
What kind of person chooses to not be informed, and then questions the veracity of those who are paying attention...
seems like a real sheep brain thing to do
Anyway check out antiwar.com if you’d like to be kept informed

perhaps....if that was even what I stated...read brother....should I call you ignorant too?

 

[Gry]

There are verifiable new policies in regards to domestic terrorism and plenty of rhetoric too regarding a war on domestic “terror” from high level politicians..
just because ur too ignorant to know doesn’t make it less true,
wtf kind of argument is that?
What kind of person chooses to not be informed, and then questions the veracity of those who are paying attention...
seems like a real sheep brain thing to do
Anyway check out antiwar.com if you’d like to be kept informed

Loose the attitude, Scott Horton has been repeatedly cited in these threads.

 

[gaiusmarius]

There are verifiable new policies in regards to domestic terrorism and plenty of rhetoric too regarding a war on domestic “terror” from high level politicians..
just because ur too ignorant to know doesn’t make it less true,
wtf kind of argument is that?
What kind of person chooses to not be informed, and then questions the veracity of those who are paying attention...
seems like a real sheep brain thing to do
Anyway check out antiwar.com if you’d like to be kept informed

its pointless, certain people don't want to debate, they want to score points. they would prefer to deny reality then admit a good point made by someone else.

 

[draztik]

The virus is fake. What you're experiencing is a highly sophisticated war being waged on your mind. If you ever wanted to know how a scientific dictatorship could turn everyone into slaves this is how its done. They literally programmed you to reject reality, it's actually disgusting what they did to everyone. They turned you guys into living examples of the cave dwelling slaves from Plato's allegory "The Cave". The people that escaped "the cave" have come back to free you from the false reality that is enslaving you with the truth! Instead of embracing them you want to fight the truth because to accept it would mean your entire perception of reality is wrong and it would cause you to literally have a mental breakdown to acknowledge it. The truth is a heavy weight to bear on anyone's soul, it's very hard to accept the truth and infinitely easier to deny it. You can argue all day but I know the truth and it's a fucking nightmare.

 

[Gry]

The virus is fake. What you're experiencing is a highly sophisticated war being waged on your mind. If you ever wanted to know how a scientific dictatorship could turn everyone into slaves this is how its done. They literally programmed you to reject reality, it's actually disgusting what they did to everyone. They turned you guys into living examples of the cave dwelling slaves from Plato's allegory "The Cave". The people that escaped "the cave" have come back to free you from the false reality that is enslaving you with the truth! Instead of embracing them you want to fight the truth because to accept it would mean your entire perception of reality is wrong and it would cause you to literally have a mental breakdown to acknowledge it. The truth is a heavy weight to bear on anyone's soul, it's very hard to accept the truth and infinitely easier to deny it. You can argue all day but I know the truth and it's a fucking nightmare.

Would you care to share with us how it was you came to this conclusion ?

 

[Microbeman]

its pointless, certain people don't want to debate, they want to score points. they would prefer to deny reality then admit a good point made by someone else.

another confirmed non-reader? likes to preach; do as I say, not as I do?

 

[Microbeman]

another confirmed non-reader? likes to preach; do as I say, not as I do?

If you will kindly read, Gaius, first you would recognize my statement as an answer to your question; secondly you would see that I chose no side nor made any argument as mr. marvelous brains has maintained and you apparently support. I stated only that 2 different researchers are perhaps fed different information. You guys are sure smart.

 

[Microbeman]

If you will kindly read, Gaius, first you would recognize my statement as an answer to your question; secondly you would see that I chose no side nor made any argument as mr. marvelous brains has maintained and you apparently support. I stated only that 2 different researchers are perhaps fed different information. You guys are sure smart.

Yikes! I'm doing it Hempy style.

 

[Frosty Nuggets]

Final, Irrefutable Proof that the Covid-19 Pandemic Never Existed
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/fina...9-pandemic-never-existed_JmPw8cUxQG1w7NP.html

 

[mowood3479]

Loose the attitude, Scott Horton has been repeatedly cited in these threads.

Iam sorry and I will work on it.
bringing attitude never helped win anyone over...

scott Horton is my current favorite author and speaker... really on point about afghanistan and iraq, I can only hope his name and works become ever more prevalent in these threads and beyond

@microbeman
i see the point u were making.. I read it in a less favorable light... my error.

 

[armedoldhippy]

an expansive view of human rights is it? that right there speaks louder then anything else.

i am talking about the most basic of rights, the very fundamental rights of freedom of association, protest and travel and you talk about an expansive view of human rights? omg thats so scary, it seems you have forgotten what rights even are. had we discussed this before the pandemic your answers would have been different. go with the flow i guess, most people do.

the right wing of the GOP is leading an assault on rights to protest. you will not find me backing them. if, by protesting you mean endanger others, then no, i'm not going there. freedom of association & the right to travel , 2 topics. it is suicidal to allow/encourage large gatherings during a pandemic. if you do not see that there IS a pandemic, you can have that position, i'm not wasting my time arguing that point with you. freedom to travel is, of necessity, curtailed during the same pandemic. restrictions on freedom of association AND "right" to travel (is there such a thing? other countries don't have to let you in, you know) are both temporary situations. you'll have to ask Bitch McConnell about protesters rights...

 

[dramamine]

the right wing of the GOP is leading an assault on rights to protest. you will not find me backing them. if, by protesting you mean endanger others, then no, i'm not going there. freedom of association & the right to travel , 2 topics. it is suicidal to allow/encourage large gatherings during a pandemic. if you do not see that there IS a pandemic, you can have that position, i'm not wasting my time arguing that point with you. freedom to travel is, of necessity, curtailed during the same pandemic. restrictions on freedom of association AND "right" to travel (is there such a thing? other countries don't have to let you in, you know) are both temporary situations. you'll have to ask Bitch McConnell about protesters rights...

If you think the GOP are the only ones trying to restrict protests, check out H.R. 347, passed by the Obama admin.

 

[gaiusmarius]

the right wing of the GOP is leading an assault on rights to protest. you will not find me backing them. if, by protesting you mean endanger others, then no, i'm not going there. freedom of association & the right to travel , 2 topics. it is suicidal to allow/encourage large gatherings during a pandemic. if you do not see that there IS a pandemic, you can have that position, i'm not wasting my time arguing that point with you. freedom to travel is, of necessity, curtailed during the same pandemic. restrictions on freedom of association AND "right" to travel (is there such a thing? other countries don't have to let you in, you know) are both temporary situations. you'll have to ask Bitch McConnell about protesters rights...

nice to see some logical sound points being made, i get so bored with the nit picking, worthless posts that have no relation to the actual discussion and offer no original thoughts by the poster.

the right to travel is a right inside your country at least. but thats just the point, if you are in a plague, you close the fucking doors, as long as they don't do that i don't see why my life should be on hold endlessly. here we are with Brazilian variants, south African mutations, British mutations and we still let fuckers in from all over the world. but i can't go to a party, but i can get in a little box with 200 hundred others and traipse my germs all over the planet. how can you even take it seriously at this point.

 

[gaiusmarius]

oh yes, wanted to share this regarding the previous topic. for those with a worse memory then myself and a refresher about what you have to look forward to with the new domestic war on terror

Krystal Ball: How The Government MANUFACTURES Terror "Plots" To Terrify The Public

 

[armedoldhippy]

nice to see some logical sound points being made, i get so bored with the nit picking, worthless posts that have no relation to the actual discussion and offer no original thoughts by the poster.

the right to travel is a right inside your country at least. but thats just the point, if you are in a plague, you close the fucking doors, as long as they don't do that i don't see why my life should be on hold endlessly. here we are with Brazilian variants, south African mutations, British mutations and we still let fuckers in from all over the world. but i can't go to a party, but i can get in a little box with 200 hundred others and traipse my germs all over the planet. how can you even take it seriously at this point.

how? by doing what is best for your fellow humans, even if some (many?) of them are too wound up in their wants/"rights"/entitlements to return the favor. someone has to be the adults in any situation, and at least TRY to do what is needed. travel between some states/regions was halted under certain circumstances here at hotter stages.

 

[Microbeman]

nice to see some logical sound points being made, i get so bored with the nit picking, worthless posts that have no relation to the actual discussion and offer no original thoughts by the poster.

the right to travel is a right inside your country at least. but thats just the point, if you are in a plague, you close the fucking doors, as long as they don't do that i don't see why my life should be on hold endlessly. here we are with Brazilian variants, south African mutations, British mutations and we still let fuckers in from all over the world. but i can't go to a party, but i can get in a little box with 200 hundred others and traipse my germs all over the planet. how can you even take it seriously at this point.

I agree that frivolous air travel is pathetic, always have, but more so with a global virus. As an American, I never felt nor experienced a restriction to travel in the USA by vehicle, during the last 18 months. I'm not sure if others have experienced this. As a Canadian, I'm not allowed back into my country upon leaving unless I pay for a government approved quarantine facility for 3 to 14 days.
Logic, like beauty can sometimes be according to the eye/brain of the beholder.