Tutorial Organics for Beginners
- Thread starter BurnOne
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CT Guy
My bad - I was referring to the application amount of seaweed extract when used as a soil soak and not for adding to an AACT.
I was basing that on the catalog sheet from ASL which did not include directions for compost teas - just soil and foliar applications.
BTW - what percentage of perlite/pumice did you use for your container veggies? I'm running about 30% aggregate total but that's more out of habit than probably anything else.
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vonforne
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vonforne
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vonforne
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staff11
Here are some pics of the GHS Trainwreck I have going right now. I used LC's mix, then I upcanned into LC's mix with about 3 cups of espoma biotone added in(in a bout a cubic foot of mix). So far they really haven't needed to be feed anything but an EWC slurry/LK/Molasses combo a few times. They are about 1 week into flower now. I had some issues early on with them (overwatering, light to close but they have responded) Love the LC's mix, been working out great so far. I need to post up some DNA SleestackxSkunk I have in veg right now, they look fantastic.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=18301&pictureid=374968
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=18301&pictureid=374968SecretGardener
Member
Here are some pics of the GHS Trainwreck I have going right now. I used LC's mix, then I upcanned into LC's mix with about 3 cups of espoma biotone added in(in a bout a cubic foot of mix). So far they really haven't needed to be feed anything but an EWC slurry/LK/Molasses combo a few times. They are about 1 week into flower now. I had some issues early on with them (overwatering, light to close but they have responded) Love the LC's mix, been working out great so far. I need to post up some DNA SleestackxSkunk I have in veg right now, they look fantastic.
They are in plain LC's soiless mix with no soil amendments except for the Espoma Biotone?
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staff11
Yes, I started them out in plain LC's mix(in 1 gallon pots), when I saw the bottom leaves yellow a bit I added some EWC slurry with LK and molasses. I upcanned them into the mix with the biotone, let them veg for another 2 weeks and they just went nuts. They were vegged under 5 42 watt CFl;s of mixed spectrum light (3 6500k and 2 2500k) in my small cabinet. They are now under my 250 watt hps for flower.
I am sure I will probably have to top dress them through flower, but since this is the first time I used biotone starter I want to see how they react.
I also use the promix ultimate organic bagged soil as the base.
I am sure I will probably have to top dress them through flower, but since this is the first time I used biotone starter I want to see how they react.
I also use the promix ultimate organic bagged soil as the base.
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vonforne
Hell ya Staff nice plants. How much Biotone did you add per gallon?
Plan on using anything else during flower?
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Plan on using anything else during flower?
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SecretGardener
Member
I saw epsoma biotone in a store and was going to buy it but wasn't sure if it was legit!
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staff11
Well I mixed in 3 cups of the biotone in about a cubic foot of LC's base mix, let it cook for about a month. I am thinking they might need to be topped dressed a few times in flower as I think biotone starter is a mild amendment or so I am led to believe. I have guano, powdered kelp and liquid karma as my other nutrients, and plan on adding as needed.
EDIT: The website at espoma states to use 3 cups per cubic foot of mix for potted plants, the bag says 2.25 cups per cubic foot. I believe the website is the most up to date so that is what I went by for my measurement.
The analysis on the biotone is:
4-3-3
0.6% Water Soluble Nitrogen
3.4% water insoluble nitrogen
3.0 % available phosphate
3.0% soluble potash
4.0% calcium (seems a little high?)
1.0% magnesium (0.6% water soluble)
2.0% sulfur
Derived from: feather meal, dehydrated manure, bone meal, alfalfa meal, green sand, humates???, crab meal, cocoa meal and sulfate of potash magnesia
It also contains 8 species of ectomycorrhizal fungi.
It's not really 100% organic, but what really is out of a bag?
Espoma has been around for years and I have used their plant and vegetable amendments in my vegetable garden with nice results for the past 5 seasons, and it is pretty cheap.
EDIT: The website at espoma states to use 3 cups per cubic foot of mix for potted plants, the bag says 2.25 cups per cubic foot. I believe the website is the most up to date so that is what I went by for my measurement.
The analysis on the biotone is:
4-3-3
0.6% Water Soluble Nitrogen
3.4% water insoluble nitrogen
3.0 % available phosphate
3.0% soluble potash
4.0% calcium (seems a little high?)
1.0% magnesium (0.6% water soluble)
2.0% sulfur
Derived from: feather meal, dehydrated manure, bone meal, alfalfa meal, green sand, humates???, crab meal, cocoa meal and sulfate of potash magnesia
It also contains 8 species of ectomycorrhizal fungi.
It's not really 100% organic, but what really is out of a bag?
Espoma has been around for years and I have used their plant and vegetable amendments in my vegetable garden with nice results for the past 5 seasons, and it is pretty cheap.
SecretGardener
Member
Hah yeah what is 100% organic anymore - seems people slap that word on their products and watch sales go up.
I may add the biotone as an amendment because I like the idea that it already has the fungi in it. Where would they come from otherwise if using LC's mix? The LK? The guano? The castings/compost? All of it? None of it?
I guess the source of the microbes is still the mystery of organic growing for me; I'm reading Teaming with Microbes by Lowenfels and Lewis and it has lots of good info ABOUT bacteria/fungi but I am not understanding where the hell the microbes come from. Do they exist naturally? Do you add them? I know we add FOOD for them...I'm assuming they exist naturally and you can add more by using teas / feeding them which in turns helps their numbers to fluorish.
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staff11
That book is a great place to start. You will get an understanding by reading it, and really I don't know how it exactly all works but I do know I have had some pretty good results so far.
I do believe they exist naturally to some degree, but I always add mycorrhizae to mine. A good source is fungi dot com.
EatMoGrass
Member
Espoma brand "Organic Traditions" used to sell the Sulfate of Potash Magnesia as a product they called "Epsom Plus". However they no longer sell the stuff and they don't even have it listed on their website.
That was my only locally available source of Langbeinite. I'm disappointed they stopped selling the "Epsom Plus"as I have been using that product over three years. It seemed to work very well as a source of Mag and Sulfur.
That was my only locally available source of Langbeinite. I'm disappointed they stopped selling the "Epsom Plus"as I have been using that product over three years. It seemed to work very well as a source of Mag and Sulfur.
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SecretGardener
Member
Heck yeah that book is really informative and has satiated my questions, for the most part! You guys take care of the rest.
I just noticed that the bone meal i plan on using for my amendments has mycorrhizae in it already.
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CT Guy
Ugh...just wrote you a long response but forgot to hit send and then lost it when I got a phone call and the computer hibernated on me!
Basically, I use the lower rates due to the fact I'm watering almost daily. I even go a little lower than I posted. After reading TL Senn's book on Seaweed I'm worried that I might stunt plant growth with too high of concentrations.
I went with the 30% perlite/pumice combo based on what I read on here. Seems to be working a little too well in the drainage dept., as I find my soil dries out quite quickly. Top layer is a bit cakey on a few of the pots too, which I attribute to the Alaska Humus, and the soil in my smart posts wants to crack (I've had to move the pepper plants indoors at night due to the cold).
Going to be feeding with just the seaweed and Tera Vita LC10+7. I figure the compost has enough nutrients for the veggies. Planting the tomatoes tonight (I'm trying out a couple of different upside down containers to see how they compare with regular pots).
Going to be in Portland May 28th-30th and was going to schedule an extra day there to do some microscope work with a few guys. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.
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staff11
hehe, please let us know how those topsy turvy things work out!
I just planted my garden here on Sunday and we got a huge downpour past night which really pounded my poor tomatoes and peppers, but I am sure they will be ok.
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CT Guy
I'm trying the topsy turvy tomato and strawberry pots. So far, they seem okay, minus the fact they're hideous to look at. One issue with the strawberries are that you plant all sides (15 plants). How do you get equal sun to all sides of the pot? Not possible! It's so damn heavy too that right now it's sitting in the middle of my lawn so I can rotate it daily for sun exposure. Needs watering almost daily too.
The other one I got at Ace Hardware was a raised container with holes in the bottom to grow cucumbers, peppers or tomatoes out the bottom and herbs up top. Got a tomato plant going out the bottom and a basil and some lettuce up top. Looks 100x nicer. Only issue here is that my tomato start was a bit small and getting light to the leaves was problematic as it was shaded by the container for the majority of the day. Probably not a problem with a larger plant, but I ended up having to tilt the container so that sunlight could hit the underside where the tomato plant was.
Just experimenting, as I get asked about various containers and such for work. Also have a couple of smart pots going as well as plastic and clay pots.
The other one I got at Ace Hardware was a raised container with holes in the bottom to grow cucumbers, peppers or tomatoes out the bottom and herbs up top. Got a tomato plant going out the bottom and a basil and some lettuce up top. Looks 100x nicer. Only issue here is that my tomato start was a bit small and getting light to the leaves was problematic as it was shaded by the container for the majority of the day. Probably not a problem with a larger plant, but I ended up having to tilt the container so that sunlight could hit the underside where the tomato plant was.
Just experimenting, as I get asked about various containers and such for work. Also have a couple of smart pots going as well as plastic and clay pots.
The microbes are found in the organic material you add to your potting soil base (usually some combination of peat moss, coir, perlite, pumice, etc.) in the form of compost and/or earthworm castings.
Not all compost is created equally well and the same is true for earthworm castings. Sourcing the very best organic material for your garden or container plants will vastly reduce the need to add anything to your garden other than some minerals and such.
Aerated compost teas dislodge the microbes from the material and by providing them with food they increase rapidly in a few hours that allow you to inoculate your soil with extremely high levels of anaerobic microbes.
The key, again, is sourcing the very best compost and/or EWC that you can. It will result in less work with better results, IMHO
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