New seed stock prices thru the roof!!

[been]

I'm happy to pay a little more for F1s.

I see a lot of the older varieties getting looked over for the newer gear, and I honestly don't think the new stuff is any better than the older stuff. I mean, you can pick up a pack of Skunkman's Original Haze x Skunk #1 for $50! Mr Nice La Nina for $75. Serious Seeds prices have dropped considerably over the past year. IMHO it's a good time to buy.

 

[DocLeaf]

Agreed,,

Yesteryear seeds were less available and the price was usually higher... with no such thing as a freebie.

Today growers have a vast choice of genetics,, at competitive prices.. and usually get a extra packet of seeds for FREE.

 

[Strainbrain]

$13.63 apiece for Wally's last C99 release? I purchased mine the day before the price dropped, too. I have sown one, and sprouted one. 10 remain. Considering each is a $14 raffle ticket to a potential lifetime of amazing pot... I suppose I coulda spent it less wisely. I even defended the price in the C99 thread, using similar logic. And hell, if I get a good MALE as well? $150 is chump change. I'll have a lifetime of great crosses to grow out.

That said, I was interested yesterday in some Sensi JH. At $120 I probably woulda done it. Again, 1 keeper and it's worth every penny. But at $210? Hmm... I know a guy an hour away with a nice 11-week JH pheno. I'll just drive, and bring a peat puck.

My money's better spent on the other 2 packs I looked at - some WWIX-1 and some Mirre (which is half JH anyway) - $106 for both, total. Did I walk away upset that JH was slightly out of reach? No, I left excited, because for just about $100 I could pick up WW and Mirre.

If you're going to bitch about cost, just look around a little more. There are great genes at reasonable prices, and you don't even have to look at the 'cheapies' to find them.


-s

 

[Cinderella99]

Revolution/Pestilence Risk Premium

Revolution/Pestilence Risk Premium

GMT said "If only seed breeders were based in zimbabwe, we could buy everything for a dollar lol."

Lolllll (appropriate avatar graphic as well!)

On a more serious note: There would have to be a premium above the $1 unit price for the potential cost associated with SURF (spontaneous and unpredictable revolution factor) or UIPPFF (unforeseen and instant plague/pestilence/famine factor

In fact, if we include these premiums, prices would far exceed the AAFDM (automatically approving formulaic distribution model) set price of $11 per seed-- regardless of quality.

Plus, it's be hella difficult for those poor folks to grow in sand.

 

[LLCoolBud]

it's all part of the weed game.
what is say $10-15/bean in the long run anyway?
if you find a keeper in that pack, u can keep her forever.
not to mention making f2's (like nirvana does) and have seeds forever.
its just a minor investment really.
remember folks, scared money doesn't make money.
no risk, no reward, blah blah blah.
im sure 90% of us don't even flinch when u have to drop a couple hundred at the hydro shop, why flinch now?

I agree but when the costs get into the 20$ a seed and up its getting a bit outrageous. I think seeds should be priced anywhere from 35$ (f2's/unstable seeds) to $150 tops for heavily worked and stabilized true breeding lines like DJ short. Anything more then that its just flat out highway robbery. But the less educated pay it and done realized they are the same as the 35$ ones.

 

[MickTheBrag]

well with the credit crunch starting to hit you would think a few price drops were in order. cause selling a bit of your headstash aint easy now as most of your mates are short of money as well.
i was amazed at HGfanta seeds most of their seeds have rocketed in price. serious seeds are now standard £60.00 for ten.
if the downturn drags on they'l have too drop prices cause people will start breeding their own seeds and this will mean disaster for the seedbanks. a bad move on their part in my view.
the polititians are handling the downturn bad enough would'nt like to see the seedbreeders make a balls up of it too. peace mick

 

[barletta]

On the upside, if people perceive the seeds to be expensive, the breeders/seedmakers will have to be on top of their game. I dunno if I've ever read a thread on staple strains like (sativas) KaliMist, JackH, SSH or (indy's) SensiStar, LUI, BlackWidow, where the grower was just 'dissatisfied' with the pheno's/plants (assuming he knew he wanted either an indy or a sat). Those packs are worth the $8+ a seed just based on that. I know that MrN has no problem replacing germ issues at their expense, so that is worth something extra (per seed), IMHO.

Point is, if you are able to find 1 female that sassifys you thoroughly, it makes the price of the pack almost irrelevant. There are LOTS of ways to trim an extra $100 off of the cost of a 3+ month, '1 pack's worth' indoor grow. I don't know if I could place a dollar value on my SSH's, or the crosses, or the ~200 f2's that I have to play with, or the experience of growing, smoking, and selecting (and doing all over again) amongst what I would consider 'as good as it gets'. Hey wave some green in my face, and I'm sure I could put a figgure on it, but it would be large and in charge. I didn't go through a pack or 2 of 'almost what I wanted'. The first plant to show her pubes was A+++, and the rest a step down, but fast. Maybe the f2's are the same quality, I'll have a handle on that in a few weeks. Of the 2 or 3 finished plants that I'm pretty sure were ssh f2's , 1 was fire haze, and the other(s) just like ssh.

FWIW, I am going to grow the hell out of my G/Sk and SSH f2's. The parents were killer, and these are essentially free seeds. When I have the need for seeds, I'll spend a lot, but I'll spend wisely. If it's 20 years from now, I won't pay more than $10/seed...

 

[808kahumai]

We are (mostly) all friends here. That is why I said earlier that we should all have one room or two plants or more for seed making. Do we really have to kill off all the males? The point is to reproduce, right?! Take the best of the best and make more.....over grow the planet...and share seed amongst yourselves. Then you don't have to buy seed from anywhere. We already have the best strains out there and know how to make more. Who will volunteer to be the grower for the IC Commune??! See my other post. Kisses..
:kitty:

 

[subrob]

im gonna go against the grain here and say i dont mind the prices of seeds at all. matter of fact, i remember when some of the EXACT same strains from the EXACT same companies cost MORE. 10 years ago some of the most sought after strains cost 350- 450 american.
---what is tough though, is the fact that my first cross ever(and currently untested cross at that) are up at the 420 auction and they are going for over 100 bucks u.s.--man i hope they dont suck!!........haha
---bottom line-make your own seeds! there are companies like HTC (and others im sure) that have moderately priced genes, and after sending me FREE seeds to do a test grow, encouraged me to make my own seeds and spread them throughout the community. now that shows a company cares about more than just profit.
---i dont know, a good cut from a seed lasts a long time.
---this is not meant to say that the opposite opinion is wrong, i know when i was younger and didnt have as much money as i do now, im sure it woulda pissed me off.

 

[Cinderella99]

B said: "I didn't go through a pack or 2 of 'almost what I wanted' "

That's it...Time, space and effort (and of course owning the genetics to produce F2's and to breed with) make $$$ amount on initial cash outlay irrelevant in my eyes.

808 said: "Who will volunteer to be the grower for the IC Commune??!"

These kind folks at ic have a business to run, let's not bite the hand... But I think rather than one specified F2 house, it will be a network similar to say the bit torrent model **if** prices get too far out of hand/monopoly situation arises.

 

[Crush]

If a Honda Civic costs $40,000, there will be a few suckers that buy it and feel special. The fact is, it's a little shit box that does't compare to a comfortable SUV and is NOT worth that kind of money.

Seeds are a joke. They grow bud, get the seeds out, make hash and butter out of the remainding bud which is sold to coffee shops, adn then have the oddasity to turn around and try and sell these little seeds for over $50?????

Please.

There is a demand for cheaper, lower price seeds and there are only a FEW seed companies (including Green House) where the owners listen to what the public want. Go back to 1998 and see what Greenhouse was asking. Jack Herer in those days were $400 no lie.

Seeds from Amsterdam should be cheap. Real Cheap. They are in the coffee shop business and sell actual product legally. No different than buying tommatoes from a farm in Virginia selling their top quality seeds for $1.25 a 10 pack. The seeds are more to 'show pride' of the farm and such, not a main revenue source of what that farm actually does.

I absolutely, garuntee you 100% that Nirvana seeds easily net far, far more than Mr. Nice. That is a garuntee. I bet we can all say that we've gorwn Nirvana.

Mr. Nice holds back his own business for charging that kind of price for seeds so only a very few will grow them.. Greenhouse seeds understands that seeds should be no more than $50 at most.

IMO, right now, the best seeds should be had for $40 tops and average seeds for $20.

But this +$50 shit is nonsense.. they aren't worth that much.. they just aren't.

Let's say there are 20 seeds in a gram of weed.

That gram of actual weed cost me $10

But the 20 legal seeds are going to cost $400????

Look at the disconnect. I recommend setting up an official BOYCOTTE campaign for overpriced seeds.

 

[Cinderella99]

Agreed, Crush...But 2 points -

Agreed, Crush...But 2 points -

1) If somebody is willing to pay 40k for a Honda then it's prolly worth it to that "speacial" someone. If not, shame on them for not doing their due diligence.

2) Built into an MRN (for example) business model is the F2 or knock off factor. S knows that folks will be creating micro F2 industries that stem any future buying of his products. He needs to get compensated up front -- OK, the analogy that come to mind would be the Hollywood/movie industry approach to business and advertising: Make $$/a splash up front and the forget about it.

 

[LLCoolBud]

Still is bull cause there are alot of strains out there that are awesome and don't cost alot is all about the genetics the breeder ect where the seeds are sourced from. Then hype come's into play and mass marketing. Just cause rappers say kush now makes it worth 1000$ of dollers...I think not.

Its really because its a semi legal industry and alot of people think that that deserves high prices but its enought that you can charge 20$ for 10 seeds of anything imagine paying that for food. (End Rant)

I pay up to 100$ for some strains and Im cool with it but alot of them over that and close to 100$ with alot less backing and testing.

I collect and love cannbis but the seeds should drop in price then we can overgrow the planet faster and easier.

 

[barletta]

It is a 'per seed issue'. It is also (in some cases) supporting the people who created/stabilized the strains.

You bring up MrN vs. GH vs Nirvana.
MrN's breeders have had the same product (the offspring of the same selected parent plants) for over 20 years. They will replace any poorly performing seeds HAPPILY. It is not about net sales. It is about getting the value that you paid for.

GH buys seeds in bulk and re-packages them in their packages. They do no real breeding. They will not offer ANY support if you are among the 300million people between Canada and Mexico. They are even using strain descriptions written by competing breeders...

Nirvana is a collective of breeders, and makes no claims to the contrary. The seed will vary line to line, batch to batch, because 'nirvana' as such does not have control over whether or not the breeder/suppliers maintain the integrity of thier stock/parent plants.

All of these companies offer seeds for under $4/seed.
All of these companies offer seeds @ $8/seed. (GH has seeds for $14/per - that's 250 for an 18 pack with no males to make more hacked beans, AND no help if the post office irradiates em)

Show me consistently better seed --> weed performance than you would get from a pack of dreamtime for the same $2.40/seed. You can't. The reason that we spend more is the 'it' factor.

 

[Cinderella99]

Yea LL man...I hear ya, but...

Yea LL man...I hear ya, but...

It's really hard to argue with the "we can overgrow the world faster with cheeper seeds now" argument -- cuz, ya know what? You're right...

But consider the way business is done with say a pharmy like Lipitor or some shiaat... They know full well that there will be knock offs after 7 years due to patent expiry and what not... Well, they argue that they gots to make their money up front... Similar with the great breeders?

 

[Cinderella99]

"It is a 'per seed issue'. It is also (in some cases) supporting the people who created/stabilized the strains."

Right on, B.

 

[barletta]

C99, yeah if the parent's could be reverse engineered, just like the pharm's, then they could be exact copies. The fact is that f2's made from f1 seed are not the same. Maybe better, maybe worse, I dunno, but they are not the same thing over and over and over.

More like a restaurant. You can take it home, and re-heat it to figgure out what is in your 'special sauce', but if it's the chef's secret recipe/ingredients, you will never truly duplicate it. I have NO beef with the F2 co's selling seeds for under ~5 bux per, but when those seeds are sold as 'Homeboy's Haze' for $14/per, that is an insult to my intelligence, and my view of the company as a whole reflects that.

 

[Cinderella99]

Yea...i hear you B...

Yea...i hear you B...

'specially with something like SSH.... an outcross might savor more of the flavor if it was a truebreed they outcrossed it to...

Time tested, though.

 

[Cinderella99]

Cuz, like what I meant is that you can always cube yer "perfect parent" if ya got one and you also got a straight breeder, no? Think of Princess...

 

[barletta]

I have a 20 year old Jap car that runs great. I'm sure that it cost less than a 1990 Sedan DeVille (caddy) new, but how many 20 year old caddies are everyday drivers? 20 years later, it would seem that the accord was worth MUCH more than the caddy. Once 'Super Lemon Haze' is no longer cool to say, the MrN f1 ssh seeds that spawned the clone they spray with GA3 will still be around and raved about.

BTW, crush, is any vehicle worth 40k as transportation? No, we buy what we are sold. I sold LOTS of Denali's.

EDIT - Yeah, but you are cubing to get to the f1 plant not to the parent stock. The seeds will not offer the pheno's that the orig f1's do. After reading Chimera's explanation, the cubing process seems just like any other selection process, but you are trying to select males, which IMHO would be inherently more difficult.