soulflyx2k
Member
keep up the good work, looks great
New L.E.D. Arrays & LowRyder2
- Thread starter dav zap
- Start date
funk_buddha
Member
When you use individual lamps for the red and blue spectrums is the idea that you have both types illuminating the same leaves?
I mean, is the average leaf receiving both parts of the spectrum or are some areas illuminated exclusively by red and some exclusively by blue?
I see that you've got them fairly evenly distributed, I'm just wondering what your strategy was when it came to that.
I mean, is the average leaf receiving both parts of the spectrum or are some areas illuminated exclusively by red and some exclusively by blue?
I see that you've got them fairly evenly distributed, I'm just wondering what your strategy was when it came to that.
funk_buddha
Member
Yeah I would think that overlapping the lights would be the goal. I was just wondering if the overlapping was an intentional theme or just incidental.
Have you noticed any differences between blue only or red only branches? I can't imagine it really but that would be interesting.
As the plant gets larger and the lights are pulled back to illuminate a larger area will the overlapping decrease?
Have you noticed any differences between blue only or red only branches? I can't imagine it really but that would be interesting.
As the plant gets larger and the lights are pulled back to illuminate a larger area will the overlapping decrease?
Aaronponic
Member
So you have 100 watts of LED lighting on 1 plant?
I will be interested on what your gram/watt pull is.
I will be interested on what your gram/watt pull is.
G
Guest
dav zap said:
Cool, I've subscribed to this thread because this looks to be the best LED grow I've seen so far, no disrespect to the others, but they were all pretty poor setups, this one looks to be something else though.
A couple of questions, how many useable PAR lumens are beign generated by those 100w of LEDs? I'm guessing about 10,000 as current 5mm LED technology is producing about 100 lumens per watt.
10,000 useable lumens is a lot, expecially for one plant.
If we consult the old OG GrowFAQ we see a lot of info on the efficiency of different discharge lamps, I;ve extracted the info about 250w lamps as that's what I'm using. My Osram SON-T HPS isn't listed, but I reckon the figures will be close to those listed:
If we assume that my 250w HPS bulb is producing about 30,000 lumens of light and only about 80w of that is PAR lumens (reasonable assumptions, based on that table above), then only a third of the total produced lumens are of use to the plant, that means my 250w HPS has about 10,000 PAR lumens.
So if your 100w of LEDs is pumping out 10,000 lumens, all of them in the useable spectrum, then they are going to be about as effective as a 250w HPS. Perhaps with the way you have laid out your lights, you will have betetr light coverage than was possible with a 250w HPS, but I will be very surprised if you can match the results of a 250w HPS with your LEDs. I woul be happy to be proved wrong, however.
I can get 220-230g from 8 plants under my 250 in a modular SCROG type of setup in an 88cm wide, 45cm deep wardrobe, which is not far off the magical gram per watt figure.
So I think to replace my 250watter I will need enough LEDs to produce 10,000 lumens of light. Given that a 14w 225 LED Panel is about 40 ukp and only produces about 1400 lumens of light, and an 80 LED E27 screw bulb is about 13 ukp and produces about 800 lumens, I am gonna need 6 panels and 2 bulbs to produce 10000 lumens of light. That is gonna cost 300 ukp just to build the LED setup. My 250w HPS cost 35 quid, the cooltube another 35 and the extraction fan a tenner, 2 quid for the ducting, the whole setup around 80 ukp. So when you look at the equipment costs, LEDs are gonna have to get a lot cheaper before they are affordable to guys like me.
Some pics of my current grow under the 250:
G
Guest
Hi dav
You are right, of course the cost of operation is a BIG factor. I deliberately left it out of my calcualtions as I took it as a given that the costs are gonna be much less due to the much lower wattage.
What I was talking about was how many PAR lumens my 250 is producing, I guess my rough calculation that it is putting out 30000 lumens total, or which 10000 are PAR lumens useable by plant is about right. So the next question in my mind is how many LEDs would I need to give me 10000 PAR lumens?
With currently sold LED technology, I would need 100w to get 10000 lumens, so the energy saving is 60% over a 250w HPS.
Now, if my electricity is 10p per kwh, my 250w HPS costs 2.5p per hour to run, which is 30p for each 12hr of flowering each day. Let's say 70 days of flowering for the average plant, and I grow 8 plants at a time, so the total cost of a 70 day flowering run with my HPS is 21 UK pounds. Let's assume an average yield from 8 plants of 210g, that works out at only 10p per gram.
100w of LEDs flowering the same genetics would take a bit longer as it's been shown flowering plants take a couple of weeks longer under LEDs, let's say 85 days for arguent's sake. The LEDs would use 12p of electricity for each 12hrs of flowering per day, over 85 days, that comes to 10.20 UK pounds. In order to get the same gram/cost ratio as the HPS, I would need to yield at least 50% of the HPS yield, which would be about 105g.
Factor in the cost of buying 100w of LEDs, and it just isn't costs effective to replce my HPS with LEDs yet/ I would only save at most 50 UK pounds per year of electricity running LEDs instead of my HPS, so gien the cost of the LEDs, it would take 5 years to pay for itself in electricity savings! That is assuming that 100w of LEDs can produce 50% of the yield of a 250w HPS, snd that has yet to be shown.
You say your 100w of LEDs has outvegged a 400w HID, well, I can't agree or disagree I'm afraid as it's impossible for me to judge as I've never grown LR2, and to be honest, if I vegged a plant under a 400w HID on it's own, just one plant, I'm sure it would veg very well. However, the ability of LEDs to veg plants is well proven, what is at doubt is whether current LED technology can produce a decent harvest of buds and if those buds will be the same quality as those grown with HID lighting. I'm keenly following your thread as you have the best chance of achieving some nice buds with LEDs of the attempts so far.
I'm keen to see what yield you get off that LR2 and what the finished buds are like. Someone needs to grow the same cut under both LEDs and HID and then do some proper subjective quality testing of the finished buds to see if LEDs can produce buds of the same quality, that hasn't been proven yet either.
So, still a lot of unanswered questions about flowering with LEDs, it's been shown that LEDs veg plants fine, hopefully you can be the first person to show that LEDs can produce top quality buds in decent quantity, I hope you do and I'm sending all the good karma your way I can! I wish I could also experiemnt with LEDs, but the purchase costs are just prohibitive at the moment. I think we are going to need to see screw-in LED bulbs reaching the same price point as CFLs before they will be affordable to most folks. I look forward to the day when I can afford to experiment with LEDs, but sadly, it's not gonna be for a while with current pricing. I'm carefully studying what LED lighting is available and for what cost and hopefully the prices will continue to fall and the technology continue to improve, I think it could be another year or two though before affordable, effective LED growlights are easily available.
This is by far the cheapest Red or Blue LED light I can find to buy right now, 80 LEDs for about 25 bucks:
http://www.oknewshop.com/products/80-led-blue-colored-led-light-bulb-110v-e27-5162.html
18 LED GU10 50mm diameter red or blue bulbs are about 8 bucks, the GU10 sockets a buck each:
http://www.solotechnic.co.uk/18-x-led-gu10-lamp-230vac-red-i22538.html
You are right, of course the cost of operation is a BIG factor. I deliberately left it out of my calcualtions as I took it as a given that the costs are gonna be much less due to the much lower wattage.
What I was talking about was how many PAR lumens my 250 is producing, I guess my rough calculation that it is putting out 30000 lumens total, or which 10000 are PAR lumens useable by plant is about right. So the next question in my mind is how many LEDs would I need to give me 10000 PAR lumens?
With currently sold LED technology, I would need 100w to get 10000 lumens, so the energy saving is 60% over a 250w HPS.
Now, if my electricity is 10p per kwh, my 250w HPS costs 2.5p per hour to run, which is 30p for each 12hr of flowering each day. Let's say 70 days of flowering for the average plant, and I grow 8 plants at a time, so the total cost of a 70 day flowering run with my HPS is 21 UK pounds. Let's assume an average yield from 8 plants of 210g, that works out at only 10p per gram.
100w of LEDs flowering the same genetics would take a bit longer as it's been shown flowering plants take a couple of weeks longer under LEDs, let's say 85 days for arguent's sake. The LEDs would use 12p of electricity for each 12hrs of flowering per day, over 85 days, that comes to 10.20 UK pounds. In order to get the same gram/cost ratio as the HPS, I would need to yield at least 50% of the HPS yield, which would be about 105g.
Factor in the cost of buying 100w of LEDs, and it just isn't costs effective to replce my HPS with LEDs yet/ I would only save at most 50 UK pounds per year of electricity running LEDs instead of my HPS, so gien the cost of the LEDs, it would take 5 years to pay for itself in electricity savings! That is assuming that 100w of LEDs can produce 50% of the yield of a 250w HPS, snd that has yet to be shown.
You say your 100w of LEDs has outvegged a 400w HID, well, I can't agree or disagree I'm afraid as it's impossible for me to judge as I've never grown LR2, and to be honest, if I vegged a plant under a 400w HID on it's own, just one plant, I'm sure it would veg very well. However, the ability of LEDs to veg plants is well proven, what is at doubt is whether current LED technology can produce a decent harvest of buds and if those buds will be the same quality as those grown with HID lighting. I'm keenly following your thread as you have the best chance of achieving some nice buds with LEDs of the attempts so far.
I'm keen to see what yield you get off that LR2 and what the finished buds are like. Someone needs to grow the same cut under both LEDs and HID and then do some proper subjective quality testing of the finished buds to see if LEDs can produce buds of the same quality, that hasn't been proven yet either.
So, still a lot of unanswered questions about flowering with LEDs, it's been shown that LEDs veg plants fine, hopefully you can be the first person to show that LEDs can produce top quality buds in decent quantity, I hope you do and I'm sending all the good karma your way I can! I wish I could also experiemnt with LEDs, but the purchase costs are just prohibitive at the moment. I think we are going to need to see screw-in LED bulbs reaching the same price point as CFLs before they will be affordable to most folks. I look forward to the day when I can afford to experiment with LEDs, but sadly, it's not gonna be for a while with current pricing. I'm carefully studying what LED lighting is available and for what cost and hopefully the prices will continue to fall and the technology continue to improve, I think it could be another year or two though before affordable, effective LED growlights are easily available.
This is by far the cheapest Red or Blue LED light I can find to buy right now, 80 LEDs for about 25 bucks:
http://www.oknewshop.com/products/80-led-blue-colored-led-light-bulb-110v-e27-5162.html
18 LED GU10 50mm diameter red or blue bulbs are about 8 bucks, the GU10 sockets a buck each:
http://www.solotechnic.co.uk/18-x-led-gu10-lamp-230vac-red-i22538.html
Ganja Pasha
Ganja Pasha
Greetings to you. Nice to read your thoughts. You do delve. I"M on the
edge of my seat about the yield, I'll admit. I do say that these lights out-
vegged a HPS 400w. I must remind you of my previous LED grow and that
the buds were more potent than HPS. So its just the amount of buddage
I'm worried about, not the quality. LEDs makes dense & potent bud.
Thank-You for taking the time to write. PEACE & POT
Ganja Pasha
Greetings to you. Nice to read your thoughts. You do delve. I"M on the
edge of my seat about the yield, I'll admit. I do say that these lights out-
vegged a HPS 400w. I must remind you of my previous LED grow and that
the buds were more potent than HPS. So its just the amount of buddage
I'm worried about, not the quality. LEDs makes dense & potent bud.
Thank-You for taking the time to write. PEACE & POT
G
Guest
Hiya dav, I only ask many questions and write much because I am very interested in LEDs and want to use them myself, but there is a lot of things I need to know and learn first!
I shall go check out your previous grow, good to know the buds your LEDs produced were dense and potent.
I really hope you get a good yield off this LR2, after all the time and investment and hard work, you deserve to get a good reward!
I shall go check out your previous grow, good to know the buds your LEDs produced were dense and potent.
I really hope you get a good yield off this LR2, after all the time and investment and hard work, you deserve to get a good reward!
G
Guest
Well, I checked out your previous grow with half the wattage of LEDs and it wasm't as impressive as I might have hoped. You said this:
And the picture that went with that post shows a plant that is very straggly and lacking in bud production:
Then you say this:
So what evidence is there of you having produced a harvest? That plant looks awful, lots of stem with only a tiny bit of bud at the tops, then you don't give any info about the yield at all, and that pic of the jar is uiseless to anyone trying to judge the buds. Did you take any pics of the buds?
That grow log is useless to anyone trying to gain an insight to LED flowering, okay, you say the bud was potent but present no evidence that you actually grew some decent buds. This time round you really need to show pics of the bud production on the plant, not just a single long shot of a straggly plant, show some pics of the finished product, some details of the yield. That last grow log looks like a cop-out, one teeny jar of green matter and just one comment that it was potent, given the amount of fraud and lies online, I never believe anything unless there are lots of pictures and verification of details!
I checked ledgrowlights.com and a 100w setup is 999 bucks!!!!
Jeezus, they need a four to five fold price drop before they are affordable to guys like me!
I'm still curious about the PAR lumens thing, without knowing how many lumens one of their red bulbs produces, it's impossible to know how many I will need to give me the same amount of useable PAR lumens as my 250w HPS. Do you know how many lumens their new red bulbs produce? They say it's twice waht the olds one produced, but I couldn't find any specifications. The current 5mm LED technology produces about 10 lumens per LED, if those red bulbs are 168 LEDs, they probably put out about 1680 lumens, perhaps the new ones that are double strength are about 3300 lumens, I'd really liek to know as if they are putting out 3300 lumens I would only need 3 of them and a couple of small blue bulbs to replace my 250w. I think I prefer the idea of using a flat LED panel and SCROGGing the plant(s) though.
And the picture that went with that post shows a plant that is very straggly and lacking in bud production:
Then you say this:
So what evidence is there of you having produced a harvest? That plant looks awful, lots of stem with only a tiny bit of bud at the tops, then you don't give any info about the yield at all, and that pic of the jar is uiseless to anyone trying to judge the buds. Did you take any pics of the buds?
That grow log is useless to anyone trying to gain an insight to LED flowering, okay, you say the bud was potent but present no evidence that you actually grew some decent buds. This time round you really need to show pics of the bud production on the plant, not just a single long shot of a straggly plant, show some pics of the finished product, some details of the yield. That last grow log looks like a cop-out, one teeny jar of green matter and just one comment that it was potent, given the amount of fraud and lies online, I never believe anything unless there are lots of pictures and verification of details!
I checked ledgrowlights.com and a 100w setup is 999 bucks!!!!
Jeezus, they need a four to five fold price drop before they are affordable to guys like me!
I'm still curious about the PAR lumens thing, without knowing how many lumens one of their red bulbs produces, it's impossible to know how many I will need to give me the same amount of useable PAR lumens as my 250w HPS. Do you know how many lumens their new red bulbs produce? They say it's twice waht the olds one produced, but I couldn't find any specifications. The current 5mm LED technology produces about 10 lumens per LED, if those red bulbs are 168 LEDs, they probably put out about 1680 lumens, perhaps the new ones that are double strength are about 3300 lumens, I'd really liek to know as if they are putting out 3300 lumens I would only need 3 of them and a couple of small blue bulbs to replace my 250w. I think I prefer the idea of using a flat LED panel and SCROGGing the plant(s) though.
Last edited:
soulflyx2k
Member
ya... next time do SCROG dav zap!!! I think that might be monsterous
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