NASA-Funded Research Discovers Life Built With Toxic Chemical

[sac beh]

This makes sense however I do not see how it has brought us to a mature point, in fact I think its going the opposite direction, people seem to be dropping maturity more day by day.

I don't understand. Science-based exploration of our world brings maturity. Blind criticisms of spending bring the opposite.

Imo if we search hard enough the answer to every illness is out there in this world, I say we focus on that, once we can sustain our life longer then 100 or so years, then focus on exploring the insanely vast universe surrounding us if we havent found all the answers we need.

This is a confusion of categories. Read above and you'll see how NASA helps in projects to improve life here. But apart from that, curing illnesses isn't a NASA specific mission. So your beef is with those organizations whose mission is curing illness and the programs that actually take resources from this mission. I think NASA is near the bottom of that list of orgs that have anything to do with the bad allocation of resources.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Sorry, cookies represent life they are looking so hard for, when in fact there is undiscovered life right here on earth, you meen you dont see how thats silly?

They are obviously looking for the undiscovered life here on earth, too. This is a good example of exactly that thing. To use your analogy, they just found oatmeal cookies on chocolate chip cookie mountain.... and the oatmeal cookies are equally able to use either chocolate chips or raisins in their makeup with equal efficacy, whilst the chocolate chip cookies are only ever able to use chips. (damn this discussion is giving me the munchies )

I would love for them to do both, thats the best way for things to work, but 13 trillion is so fucking crazy rofl, I guess some people will justify it and some wont, I guess only the future will tell what "new discoveries" come from nasa, to bad I dont have that awesome super special super power eh?

too bad indeed.

I'm just glad that they have been and are doing both... as are the hundreds of thousands of people who've bennefitted from the health care advances NASA research has provided us with... hopefully the well established trends of the past will be indicative of its continuation into the future.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Dude they've had jet packs around since the 60's.lol

but he doesn't have his yet.

 

[juicepuddle]

I don't understand. Science-based exploration of our world brings maturity. Blind criticisms of spending bring the opposite.

How? It makes us more mature because we believe to understand more about life? About how it works? Not gonna lie dude, you wont ever know.

So your beef is with those organizations whose mission is curing illness and the programs that actually take resources from this mission. I think NASA is near the bottom of that list of orgs that have anything to do with the bad allocation of resources.

Dont have beef, just typing what I think, I never said they havent helped, I am referring to the future, as for nasa working to help explore this earth as well, I know this however it is not their main focus and should be number 1 on the list imo

They are obviously looking for the undiscovered life here on earth, too. This is a good example of exactly that thing. To use your analogy, they just found oatmeal cookies on chocolate chip cookie mountain.
too bad indeed.

Comic gold

I'm just glad that they have been and are doing both... as are the hundreds of thousands of people who've bennefitted from the health care advances NASA research has provided us with... hopefully the well established trends of the past will be indicative of its continuation into the future.

I simply think its time to stop reaching out and look in..... people just seem to get upset because someone not super informed is speaking his opinion, I am respectful and try to learn from mistakes, I have made bad claims before but it helped me grow, and sometimes it helps others see different sides of the same old shapes.

Hey theres another analogy to make fun of!

 

[Honkytonk]

Dude they've had jet packs around since the 60's.lol

Prototypes don't count. I want jet-packs in mass scale production available at Walmarts for $99.99.

 

[sac beh]

How? It makes us more mature because we believe to understand more about life? About how it works? Not gonna lie dude, you wont ever know.

It makes us more mature because we understand more about life. Part of the understanding that science promotes is in fact the recognition that we don't sufficiently understand a whole host of things. So it encourages maturity on both levels.

On the other hand, if your view is in fact that you will never know anything more about life, then all of your worry about funding programs that search to improve life on earth is misplaced.

 

[mrwags]

let's hope so.

A bunch of stoners flying around OMG that would be something to see.

A few hits of the Casey Jones from the ROOR and the next thing ya know you jetted yourself across the country to Vegas in under 3 hours.

I guess a guys gotta dream but we all know they would never let us play. We would all be like the poor fat kid at school when they pick teams for kick-ball.

LAST


Have A Great Day
Mr.Wags

 

[juicepuddle]

It makes us more mature because we understand more about life. Part of the understanding that science promotes is in fact the recognition that we don't sufficiently understand a whole host of things. So it encourages maturity on both levels.

Though you see it this way, this is not how it is in the real world. It should be doing this, however its simply used to control people..

On the other hand, if your view is in fact that you will never know anything more about life, then all of your worry about funding programs that search to improve life on earth is misplaced.

We may learn how to handle some situations better, but no rule is universal, claim your learning more about life, when your just understanding an isolated incident. You think we are learning about life, I think we are just confusing it. Might look good now but as time goes on people will see just how confusing we have made everything here.

And for the record I do not worry at all about this stuff, if it isnt obvious thats weird, I was just chiming in I accept the fact that nothing is provable, we can assume for a while but that only helps initially, eventually we will see the errors.

 

[statusquo]

It's been known for a long time that arsenic could swap out with phosphorus. I don't recall where I read this either, but I could swear that this organism has been known about for some time. This could just possibly be one of those media hype things that NASA pulls occasionally when they need funding desperately.
Even though this may be old(er) news recycled by the media, it's nonetheless pretty darn cool. Absolutely makes the same kind of stride that the hydrothermal vents did when they were first discovered.....and broadens our ability and range to look for other forms of "life".
A big K+ to the folk that are on that cutting edge of discovery.

I said the same thing in the other thread linking this article. I took astrobiology 2 years ago and I specifically remember talking about extremophiles in mono-lake and specifically talking about arsenic replacing Phosphorus in the ATP/ADP cycle...It is an important find but not nearly as important as it seems...especially given that we already knew this! lol.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I said the same thing in the other thread linking this article. I took astrobiology 2 years ago and I specifically remember talking about extremophiles in mono-lake and specifically talking about arsenic replacing Phosphorus in the ATP/ADP cycle...It is an important find but not nearly as important as it seems...especially given that we already knew this! lol.

Except that this is information that adds to the old knowledge, since it is not a discovery that Arsenic can replace phosphorous in the ATP/ADP cycle, but is a new discovery that As can replace P in their DNA.

So yes, this is a new discovery, and no we did not already know this.

 

[Green lung]

Though you see it this way, this is not how it is in the real world. It should be doing this, however its simply used to control people..

It didn't take long.....sighs...where is my tinfoil hat.......here it is

 

[sac beh]

Though you see it this way, this is not how it is in the real world. It should be doing this, however its simply used to control people..

Oh no.. *sigh*

The scientific mind is only controlled by the desire to tame the horses of emotion and fear so that the horse of reason provides practical direction, as in Plato's chariot.

We may learn how to handle some situations better, but no rule is universal, claim your learning more about life, when your just understanding an isolated incident. You think we are learning about life, I think we are just confusing it. Might look good now but as time goes on people will see just how confusing we have made everything here.

And for the record I do not worry at all about this stuff, if it isnt obvious thats weird, I was just chiming in I accept the fact that nothing is provable, we can assume for a while but that only helps initially, eventually we will see the errors.

I thought you were one of these moderate I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it guys. But it turns out you're a nothing-is-provable-we-will-never-advance-our-understanding-of-the-world-because-it-always-absolutely-evades-us guy, which is disappointing. But more than anything its funny, because you make the claims by typing on a keyboard to post comments on the internet all of which is only possible because of many advances which used reason and provability to invent things.

Absolute agnosticism like this is incoherent

 

[BashertofCyndi]

I wonder what they taste like. Do they have drumstiks and thighs.. So many questions. So many wonders....

 

[statusquo]

Except that this is information that adds to the old knowledge, since it is not a discovery that Arsenic can replace phosphorous in the ATP/ADP cycle, but is a new discovery that As can replace P in their DNA.

So yes, this is a new discovery, and no we did not already know this.

If arsenic can replace P in ATP it stands to reason that it's probable it can replace P in other contexts (speaking chemically here). Each process requires its own enzymes and each is different than the other etc but they both evolved in the same ancestors and under similar conditions.

Also, I thought the main point was that Arsenic is chemically compatible with P (akin to saying Si can viably replace C, chemically, which isn't the case BTW). If this wasn't the point, it seems a close second is the fact that biology can evolve in different conditions than we 'originally' thought possible allowing for life to exist in many more places than we thought (i.e. the existence of extremophiles/archaic bacteria which we already knew).

 

[juicepuddle]

I thought you were one of these moderate I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it guys. But it turns out you're a nothing-is-provable-we-will-never-advance-our-understanding-of-the-world-because-it-always-absolutely-evades-us guy, which is disappointing

Whats disappointing to me is people judging what kind of guy I am who have never met me. Why put words in my mouth? I never said we wouldnt advance, I was talking about KNOWING something. See the stuff you dont like in my post and nothing else.

I have no idea what kind of guy you are but I tried to give you rep for the respectful responses, glad it said I couldnt vote on anymore threads today.

But more than anything its funny, because you make the claims by typing on a keyboard to post comments on the internet all of which is only possible because of many advances which used reason and provability to invent things.

Never said I wasnt a hypocrite, if you go your hole life and not once be hypocritical then your fucking awesome and way better then me, and I commend anyone who can rule it out entirely.

Anyway I figured my statements in this thread wouldnt be so bold as to diss the things leading to the creation of the internet and keyboards etc, I guess to you it was, so sorry I didnt mean to insinuate that we should never try to advance our way of life.... Like I said read what I post and only see the stuff you dont like and nothing else haha, but know I am just typing the truth.

Absolute agnosticism like this is incoherent

Agreed absolute anything is a waste of time, in my opinion its good to be open to stuff, but wary as well, I may be incoherent but its because I have little practice talking about my opinions, it seems I have come off know it all, closed off and absolute in my beliefs. Either way I will get better as time goes on.

If I truly offended or upset, I am not sorry, maybe you should relax and read my posts and not compare me to every other person you have spoken to and hated.

Oh no.. *sigh*

The scientific mind is only controlled by the desire to tame the horses of emotion and fear so that the horse of reason provides practical direction, as in Plato's chariot.

Lol... I guess its to hard to consider that maybe science was made and based on these rules but was then taken control of.... many things started pure and then where taken and used for evil. If you dont see how tightly wrapped stuff is and how controlled info is I am sorry and hope you do soon. Put a tinfoil hat on my head if you want but know that you put it there.

The people who deny by ridicule only show how they fear how others see the truth. Why not just respond and tell me my folly? Then I could grow and change insted of re explaining myself to sarcastic jousters.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

If arsenic can replace P in ATP it stands to reason that it's probable it can replace P in other contexts (speaking chemically here). Each process requires its own enzymes and each is different than the other etc but they both evolved in the same ancestors and under similar conditions.

Also, I thought the main point was that Arsenic is chemically compatible with P (akin to saying Si can viably replace C, chemically, which isn't the case BTW). If this wasn't the point, it seems a close second is the fact that biology can evolve in different conditions than we 'originally' thought possible allowing for life to exist in many more places than we thought (i.e. the existence of extremophiles/archaic bacteria which we already knew).

Stands to reason ≠ already discovered.

There was a new discovery made and reported on, Irrespective of both the hype and downplaying.

 

[HempKat]

Let me straighten this out for you...

This isn't some "new" space life. It's regular life from earth that found itself in a hostile environment and at least ONE of these organisms had a "defect" in it's DNA that coded for using Ar instead of P for biological functions. It happens ALL THE TIME. It's how you get "resistant" organisms. They have a defect that allows them to metabolize differently than the others. Most "plant/insect/fungus/bacteria/virus killers" act on metabolic processes to kill. When one is born with a defect that changed metabolism, the organism survives the "poisoning" and is labeled resistant.

Normally they die...sometimes they happen to be born where this defect gives them an advantage and they thrive. It's nothing special...it's evolution and survival of the fittest.

Ummm, you need to reread the story. These arsenic eating bacteria didn't just simply evolve. The people doing the research changed their environment and they adapted.

 

[HempKat]

I simply think its time to stop reaching out and look in.....

That's what happened here though, NASA didn't find this life on the moon or Mars, they found it here on earth. Now how could they find it here if they were only reaching out and not looking in? What they found also though is that they need to redefine where they'll look for life because we just realized (matured) that life is more flexible then we thought before we found this.

 

[HempKat]

Prototypes don't count. I want jet-packs in mass scale production available at Walmarts for $99.99.

http://gammasquad.uproxx.com/2010/03/jetpack-for-sale

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Ummm, you need to reread the story. These arsenic eating bacteria didn't just simply evolve. The people doing the research changed their environment and they adapted.

Actually, they found a bacteria that has evolved the ability to use either P or As in its DNA. The bacteria comes from an environment already very high in As and very low in P, and had evolved this characteriatic before the scientists discovered it.

The scientist did nothing to alter the organism, they only discovered how the organism had evolved to be capable of adapting to its ever fluctuating environment.

Did you read this whole article? It expands on the original summary I posted...
http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3698/thriving-on-arsenic

One of the basic assumptions about life on Earth may be due for a revision. Scientists have discovered a type of bacteria that thrives on poisonous arsenic, potentially opening up a new pathway for life on Earth and other planets.

If you thumb through an introductory biology textbook, you’ll notice that six elements dominate the chemistry of life. Carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen are the most common. After that comes phosphorus, then sulfur. Most biologists will tell you that these six elements are essential: life as we know it cannot exist without them.

The recent discovery by Felisa Wolfe-Simon of an organism that can utilize arsenic in place of phosphorus, however, has demonstrated that life is still capable of surprising us in fundamental ways. The results of her research were published December 2 on Science Express and subsequently in the journal Science.

The organism in question is a bacterium, GFAJ-1, cultured by Wolfe-Simon from sediments she and her colleagues collected along the shore of Mono Lake, California. Mono Lake is hypersaline and highly alkaline. It also has one of the highest natural concentrations of arsenic in the world.

On the tree of life, according to the results of 16S rRNA sequencing, the rod-shaped GFAJ-1 nestles in among other salt-loving bacteria in the genus Halomonas. Many of these bacteria are known to be able to tolerate high levels of arsenic.

But Wolfe-Simon found that GFAJ-1 can go a step further. When starved of phosphorus, it can instead incorporate arsenic into its DNA, and continue growing as though nothing remarkable had happened.

“So far we’ve showed that it can do it in DNA, but it looks like it can do it in a whole lot of other biomolecules” as well, says Wolfe-Simon, a NASA research fellow in residence at the USGS in Menlo Park, California.

“It is the first time in the history of biology that there’s been anything found that can use one of the different elements in the basic structure,” says Paul Davies, the director of BEYOND: Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science at Arizona State University in Tempe, Arizona. Wolfe-Simon’s finding “can only reinforce people’s belief that life can exist under a much wider range of environments than hitherto believed,” he says. He sees the discovery of GFAF-1 as “the beginning of what promises to be a whole new field of microbiology.”

Michael New, NASA’s astrobiology discipline scientist, agrees. “The discovery of an organism that can use arsenic to build its cellular components may indicate that life can form in the absence of large amounts of available phosphorous, thus increasing the probability of finding life elsewhere,” he says. “This finding expands our understanding of the conditions under which life can thrive, and possibly originate, thereby increasing our understanding of the distribution of life on Earth and the potential habitats for life elsewhere in the solar system.

In case you’re not impressed yet, here’s a quick refresher. The DNA molecule is shaped like a spiral ladder. The “rungs” of the ladder are comprised of pairs of nucleotides, which spell out the genetic instructions of life. The sides of the DNA ladder, referred to as its backbone, are long chains of alternating sugar and phosphate molecules. A phosphate molecule contains five atoms: one of phosphorus, four of oxygen. No phosphorus, no phosphate. No phosphate, no backbone. No backbone, no DNA. No DNA, no life.

GFAJ-1 apparently didn’t read the manual.

When Wolfe-Simon starved GFAJ-1 cells of phosphorus, while flooding them with arsenic, far more than enough arsenic to kill most other organisms, it grew and divided as though it had been offered its favorite snack. Wolfe-Simon, with assistance from colleagues in Ron Oremland’s group at the USGS in Menlo Park, California, have grown generation after generation of these bacteria. The bacteria continue to swim around in their test tubes, unconcerned, despite the fact that, since Wolfe-Simon first collected them more than a year ago, the only phosphorus they have had access to was whatever was present in the original colony of cells, plus tiny traces, far too little to sustain ongoing growth and cell division, present as impurities in the cells’ growth medium.

And you thought arsenic was poison, right? To most living organisms, it is. Arsenic is chemically similar to phosphorus, so it can sneak its way into living cells, as if wearing a disguise. But it is more reactive than phosphorus, in ways that tend to rip apart life’s essential molecules. DNA, for example. Somehow, GFAJ-1 appears to have found a way to overcome this problem.

As a control, a second culture of GFAJ-1 cells was fed phosphorus instead of arsenic. They, too, grew and divided. GFAJ-1 seems able to switch back and forth, depending on how much phosphorus is available.

“I have no idea how they’re doing what they’re doing,” Wolfe-Simon says.

Once she realized that GFAJ-1 was capable of growing when starved of phosphorus, Wolfe-Simon set about finding out in more detail what was going on inside its cells. Could it be, perhaps, that she had found a microbe that, rather than incorporating arsenic into its biological structures, was instead exceptionally good at recycling extremely limited amounts of phosphorus?

Wolfe-Simon and her colleagues used several different experimental techniques to find an answer.

Data produced by mass-spectrometry methods known as ICP-MS and NanoSIMS, showing the distribution of various chemical elements within GFAJ-1 cells, revealed a clear difference between cells grown with arsenic and those grown with phosphorus. Those grown with arsenic were loaded with the stuff, but contained very little phosphorus. In cells grown with phosphorus, the opposite was true.

By introducing radioactive arsenic into the growth medium of some of the microbes, Wolfe-Simon learned that about one-tenth of the arsenic absorbed by the bacteria ended up in their nucleic acids.

To confirm that this arsenic was being incorporated into DNA, she used a well-accepted molecular biology technique known as gel purified DNA extraction to isolate and concentrate DNA from GFAJ-1 cells. The value of this technique is that it ensures that no other material from the cell comes along for the ride. NanoSIMS measurement of these concentrated DNA extractions showed that arsenic was indeed present in their DNA.

Still further evidence came from the use of a technique known as micro extended X-ray absorption fine structure spectroscopy (µEXAFS). µEXAFS can provide information about the structure of molecules by probing how its internal chemical bonds respond when stimulated by a beam of light. Within the DNA extracted from GFAJ-1 cells starved of phosphorus, it showed arsenic bonded to oxygen and carbon in the same way phosphorus bonds to oxygen and carbon in normal DNA.

In other words, every experiment Wolfe-Simon performed pointed to the same conclusion: GFAJ-1 can substitute arsenic for phosphorus in its DNA. “I really have no idea what another explanation would be,” Wolfe-Simon says.

But Steven Benner, a distinguished fellow at the Foundation for Applied Molecular Evolution in Gainesville, FL, remains skeptical. If you “replace all the phosphates by arsenates,” in the backbone of DNA, he says, “every bond in that chain is going to hydrolyze [react with water and fall apart] with a half-life on the order of minutes, say 10 minutes.” So “if there is an arsenate equivalent of DNA in that bug, it has to be seriously stabilized” by some as-yet-unknown mechanism.

Benner suggests that perhaps the trace contaminants in the growth medium Wolf-Simon uses in her lab cultures are sufficient to supply the phosphorus needed for the cells’ DNA. He thinks it’s more likely that arsenic is being used elsewhere in the cells, in lipids for example. “Arsenate in lipids would be stable,” he says, and would “not fall apart in water.” What appears in Wolfe-Simon's gel-purified extraction to be arsenate DNA, he says, may actually be DNA containing a standard phosphate-based backbone, but with arsenate associated with it in some unidentified way.

The discovery of GFAJ-1’s unusual abilities suggests a number of avenues for further research. One obvious one is to see whether any other organisms can perform similar biochemical tricks.

Wolfe-Simon “would be very unlikely to have just found the only arsenic life form on Earth on the first try. So it’s got to be the tip of a very large iceberg,” Davies says.

And indeed, Wolfe-Simon says she is already growing “14 or so other isolates” from Mono Lake on a phosphorus-free diet high in arsenic. They may be the same organism she’s already identified, they may not. “I don’t know anything else about them, except that they grow under similar conditions.”

Meanwhile, Wolfe-Simon has ordered stock cultures of several previously identified Halomonas organisms, close relatives of GFAJ-1 on the genetic tree, all known to be arsenic-tolerant. She plans to test whether they, too, can survive in a phosphorus-free environment.

She’s also interested in finding out whether GFAJ-1 is actively employing its arsenic-incorporating ability in its natural state. “You want to know, is this biology being done in the environment or is it some very bizarre thing, like a hat trick [that it does only] in the lab.”

And Davies suggests it would be interesting to search in “an environment that has very little phosphorus and lots of arsenic” for an organism that requires arsenic to survive, “for which phosphorus would be the poison.” Mono Lake, he points out, “has phosphorus as well arsenic.”

These and other investigations will help to clarify how extensive a role arsenic plays both within GFAJ-1 and in terrestrial biology as a whole. But while some scientists may reserve final judgment about Wolfe-Simon’s conclusions until further details can be clarified, even Benner concedes that “If that organism has arsenate DNA, that is a world-class discovery.”

Wolfe-Simon’s research is funded by the NASA Exobiology/Evolutionary Biology program, with additional support from the NASA Astrobiology Institute (NAI).