Motion Detector to turn things off

[fireburner23]

what does the tag on the yellow wire on the switch say?

That is for a three way system; to add in a light switch.

 

[fireburner23]

fan = fan plug
all green grounds need to be connected to your metal boxes, to the bare copper wire from your power supply, and I would screw them to your metal enclosure as well to ground that.

I am connecting all the ground wires to the green wires which leads back to the receptacle.

 

[cocktail frank]

cocktail frank, I wouldn't suggest anyone use an open relay unless they know what they are doing. They would need to put that thing in a box to protect from shock, and that involves way more work. Those things are a thing of the past my friend.

i agree with the box.
but that's where i stop agreeing w/ you.
using a cube type relay, with spade type connections is a bad thing ime.
you are counting on crimps to give you a good connection.
there are NO screw terminations on this style cube.
any solid sparky will know that spade crimps arent completely tight.
they WILL build up heat.
not to mention all those spade terms are unprotected w/o insualted crimps.
so in all honesty, my open relay is looking a lil less dangerous at this point.

and on top of everything, the open relay contacts are rated way higher than those BS cube contacts.
if he adds the light onto that relay to switch off w/ the fan,
i guarantee you the flash u see in the cube relay when it closes will be a sight.
those cubes work great for controls, but not for inductive loads.
thing of the past, incorrect.
right app for the job, correct.

i been a sparky for 15 years, licensed for 8.
i deal w/ nothing but commercial/industrial applications.
im no romex cowboy.
i work on energy management systems all day.
the only time cubes are integrated into lighting systems is when they are fed off plc's to control low voltage contactor coils.

so will yer cube work? yes
will it last? fuck no

 

[hoosierdaddy]

plc's? pretty little calculators?
Just tryin to make contact...
Wanting to logically latch on to this stuff on my way up the ladder...
If I don't grasp hold soon, I may switch gears. But who knows, maybe by a fluke, I might catch some of the waves...
Currently I'm alternating...

 

[darksith]

i agree with the box.
but that's where i stop agreeing w/ you.
using a cube type relay, with spade type connections is a bad thing ime.
you are counting on crimps to give you a good connection.
there are NO screw terminations on this style cube.
any solid sparky will know that spade crimps arent completely tight.
they WILL build up heat.
not to mention all those spade terms are unprotected w/o insualted crimps.
so in all honesty, my open relay is looking a lil less dangerous at this point.

and on top of everything, the open relay contacts are rated way higher than those BS cube contacts.
if he adds the light onto that relay to switch off w/ the fan,
i guarantee you the flash u see in the cube relay when it closes will be a sight.
those cubes work great for controls, but not for inductive loads.
thing of the past, incorrect.
right app for the job, correct.

i been a sparky for 15 years, licensed for 8.
i deal w/ nothing but commercial/industrial applications.
im no romex cowboy.
i work on energy management systems all day.
the only time cubes are integrated into lighting systems is when they are fed off plc's to control low voltage contactor coils.

so will yer cube work? yes
will it last? fuck no

OK, but you don't even know that that cube is supposed to sit on a base that has terminal screws so I don't know what to say about all your experience. I too am an electrician on 10 years ticketed. And I know right away the way hes trying to wire it is wrong, and Im telling him to get the base. Why do they make 120v coils in those things then if they are only for plc controls. Sounds like your a mill/plant electrician maybe. Also, why would a cube be rated for 30A if its only for controls? Plus, if he was going to use a contactor it wouldn't be an open one. Those are a thing of the past, and we only use molded encased contactors these days. Way safer. So yes a contactor would do the same thing, but these ice cubes are just fine for this app.

 

[fireburner23]

This whole motion detector thing may not work.
I have been trying to wire the whole thing up but the coil keeps activating. As a test measure I hooked up a real light switch and it works as it should, but as soon as I hook up the motion detector, the coil stays activated and doesn't turn on the light, the light stays off.

Could the motion detector pass through a small amount of current that activates the relay, but perhaps not enough to lite a lightbulb?

I have no way of testing this theory because I don't have a multimeter.

 

[Anti]

Maybe if you took a paperclip and a wad of chewing gum and a matchbook....

 

[cocktail frank]

what the cube base is "supposed" to be and what it "is" are 2 different things.
no screw terms there, just spade ends.

and u can get any coil voltage u want for relays.
4vdc all the way to 347vac.
of course they're gonna build em to fit any app, company makes more money being diverse.
i use molded case contactors myself, but we are talking relays here.
dunno how u got them confused, totally different operations.
i roam at work too, not stuck in a plant.
i build shit from the ground up, then pray for maintenance contracts

 

[darksith]

what the cube base is "supposed" to be and what it "is" are 2 different things.
no screw terms there, just spade ends.

and u can get any coil voltage u want for relays.
4vdc all the way to 347vac.
of course they're gonna build em to fit any app, company makes more money being diverse.

ok, so first off, you musta missed my post about not doing it like that and getting the base.

2nd you just said they build em to fit any app...ta da! Cheers.

 

[darksith]

Fireburner, I would order the proper base for that relay before I used it. I don't like how you got that 1 bit. I missed your post with the pic and comment about not having the base. Make them order you 1, it can't be more than a couple days away, or get 1 on the net.

Only 2 possibilities with your motion sensor not working, it won't let enough juice through it to activate that relay all the time so...1st its broken and is stuck always on, or 2nd you have it wired incorrectly. Lets have a look at everything you have done and we'll see if we can make it work. But I would still get a base, and I would make sure you have done all your wiring to code for safety.

 

[fireburner23]

This setup keeps activating the coil thus keeping the power shut off. Any ideas?

 

[fireburner23]

Fireburner, I would order the proper base for that relay before I used it. I don't like how you got that 1 bit. I missed your post with the pic and comment about not having the base. Make them order you 1, it can't be more than a couple days away, or get 1 on the net.

Only 2 possibilities with your motion sensor not working, it won't let enough juice through it to activate that relay all the time so...1st its broken and is stuck always on, or 2nd you have it wired incorrectly. Lets have a look at everything you have done and we'll see if we can make it work. But I would still get a base, and I would make sure you have done all your wiring to code for safety.

I guess I will have to get myself a octal relay and base, or find myself a base for my unit. But it still doesn't fix the problem I am having.

 

[darksith]

do you have the motion switch working properly. The green must be hooked up so that the circuit board works. When you install that switch you didn't do it hot right? If you did, that can damage the switch. Also double check to make sure in the instructions that the red is the switch leg and the black goes to constant power. You may need to pop the cover off that motion switch and change some settings. Also your not triggering it with movement and tricking yourself I assume?

I know from using these in commercial applications it takes a little playing around with the switches behind the cover to get it to work correctly sometimes.

 

[fireburner23]

do you have the motion switch working properly. The green must be hooked up so that the circuit board works. When you install that switch you didn't do it hot right? If you did, that can damage the switch. Also double check to make sure in the instructions that the red is the switch leg and the black goes to constant power. You may need to pop the cover off that motion switch and change some settings. Also your not triggering it with movement and tricking yourself I assume?

I know from using these in commercial applications it takes a little playing around with the switches behind the cover to get it to work correctly sometimes.

Yeah, I have it wired up like the diagram. It works just fine without the relay, but with the relay it just activates the coil. I took the motion sensor out and replaced it with a real light switch and it works properly.

 

[Stay Puft]

I can't help you there, sorry. I just see this kind of thing as overly complicated. I would either cover the noise with something else, or muffle the noise so it's not noticeable

I agree with the valid points GrnMtnGrwr has made in this thread. Why not just wire a door switch to an ear piecing alarm bell? (so loud-they wont hear a THING below 110 decibels for about an hour)
Your room does have at least a door.. doesn't it?
One major component of security is fire safety!

 

[fireburner23]

Your room does have at least a door.. doesn't it?

The garage does have a door and lock. It is normally locked. Like I said, just trying to be cautious. This motion detector thing may not work? Who knows.

 

[darksith]

Yeah, I have it wired up like the diagram. It works just fine without the relay, but with the relay it just activates the coil. I took the motion sensor out and replaced it with a real light switch and it works properly.

when you first turn it on, it probably goes into test mode, and turns on instantly. Have your read all the instructions that came with the switch. Im sure it works, you just gotta hook it up and play with it if there are settings. I garantee that it will work like you are hoping, you just gotta be patient and keep going. Have you popped the face of it off and adjusted the settings on it yet?

 

[fireburner23]

when you first turn it on, it probably goes into test mode, and turns on instantly. Have your read all the instructions that came with the switch. Im sure it works, you just gotta hook it up and play with it if there are settings. I garantee that it will work like you are hoping, you just gotta be patient and keep going. Have you popped the face of it off and adjusted the settings on it yet?

Yes I have done that. But nothing works, the coil keeps activating and stays activated.

There are three possible ways of running this thing. Off, Auto, and ON.

Every time I run it in Off mode, the light comes up, everytime I run it in Auto or On mode, the light shuts off. The coil is getting power for some reason...I have no idea why. It defies logic.

See the pictures for more details. I have included multimeter readings.

Motion and Plug with Light Auto


Motion and Relay Auto Mode


Motion and Relay ON Mode


Motion and Relay Off Mode

 

[darksith]

the little light is to show that the lights are off and its seeking Im pretty sure, when it activates the light goes off if I remember right. and Im pretty sure you got it wired wrong. The red should goto the relay not the black from the switch. The black on the switch is constant hot is it not?

 

[fireburner23]

the little light is to show that the lights are off and its seeking Im pretty sure, when it activates the light goes off if I remember right. and Im pretty sure you got it wired wrong. The red should goto the relay not the black from the switch. The black on the switch is constant hot is it not?

I have the hot hooked up to the red and brown which goes to the motion then it comes out black to the relay.

So...
Hot----->Red/Brown |Motion| Black -----> Relay -----> to Neutral