Motion Detector to turn things off

[el-rey-del-mund]

How about... You gut out a frig. or freezer and then you'll have a reason for that noise. A lot of people do that, check out freezer boy.
The dimensions may be a little smaller but, shit do both!

 

[fireburner23]

How about... You gut out a frig. or freezer and then you'll have a reason for that noise. A lot of people do that, check out freezer boy.
The dimensions may be a little smaller but, shit do both!

I did think about that, but even freezerboy will say that you will never get rid of that indescribable background noise; which is why I am trying to figure out how to disable that indescribable noise when individuals approach the cabinet. Besides, I had trouble finding a freezer that met my needs. I felt that I needed something that would blend in more; nobody tries to open a gray metal storage cabinet, but people do try to open a fridge for a tasty beer . I thought maybe the metal storage cabinet with a two point locking system would be that item to blend in more. It was just a calculated risk/benefit decision I made; of course the best stealth anybody can have is, TELL NOBODY! I am just taking very cautious approach with this grow cabinet. I have done a ton of other projects in the past and there is one thing I have learned...If you do it right the first time around, you only have to do it once.

 

[darksith]

Switches will often have a third or fourth wire that is unused.

Ive never seen this in my 10 years as an electrician. What switches are you talking about?

Anyway, its so easy to do, you simply need an ice cube relay and either a motion sensor 120v switch or a small transformer and home security switch. Either way you looking at less than $100 at home depot for all you need. But I do like the idea that if you need to goto that extent then maybe you need a different method all together. Do you live in an appt or a house? Basement suite?

 

[fireburner23]

Ive never seen this in my 10 years as an electrician. What switches are you talking about?

Anyway, its so easy to do, you simply need an ice cube relay and either a motion sensor 120v switch or a small transformer and home security switch. Either way you looking at less than $100 at home depot for all you need. But I do like the idea that if you need to goto that extent then maybe you need a different method all together. Do you live in an appt or a house? Basement suite?

I live in a house. No basement. Slab home.

 

[fireburner23]

Ive never seen this in my 10 years as an electrician. What switches are you talking about?

Anyway, its so easy to do, you simply need an ice cube relay and either a motion sensor 120v switch or a small transformer and home security switch. Either way you looking at less than $100 at home depot for all you need. But I do like the idea that if you need to goto that extent then maybe you need a different method all together. Do you live in an appt or a house? Basement suite?

I think I found something that describes what you are talking about.

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/77854-motion-sensor-killswitch.html

What do you think Darksith?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

darksith,
Some switches are normally set normally open and the action of the switch closes the circuit, and when you wire these switches up there may be a connecting wire that is labeled as the normally open NO leg. There will often times be an additional wire that is not being used labeled as NC. You can remove the NO lead and connect the NC lead in it's place and you now have a switch that is normally open and the action of the switch must close it.

A 4pin DIN connection on say an inductive proximity switch will have one pin that is for NO and another for NC depending on how you want the switch to work.

The electrician pulling and landing wires may not have the opportunity of seeing the wiring at that level, or perhaps the electrician landing wires may not actually be concerned with what the function of each wire is, but I would think you would have had some exposure with this concept. Most of this probably doesn't involve many commercial electricians, and is probably seen more in an industrial setting where sensors of all shapes, sizes, and functions are used regularly.

 

[darksith]

I think I found something that describes what you are talking about.

http://www.halloweenforum.com/halloween-props/77854-motion-sensor-killswitch.html

What do you think Darksith?

You can use just the sensor from a motion sensor light, and you can buy them without the lights, a home security one will be much less conspicious. You see them in commercail buildings and schools all the time, they are usually white, square in shape, but they run on 24v not 120v. Either way, whatever sensor you use you are going to need a relay.

darksith,
Some switches are normally set normally open and the action of the switch closes the circuit, and when you wire these switches up there may be a connecting wire that is labeled as the normally open NO leg.

You are simply talking about a 3way switch. I don't do much residential work, but Im sure they make them in a motion sensor version. Yes there are many switches that I and sounds like you can aquire, but I am thinking more in terms of "shopping at home depot" since most people wont have access to the vast network of wholesalers and distributors that we do. But I have never seen a switch for the house that comes with a NO and NC option other than a 3 way which doesn't come with a label in canada anyway.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Hey Hoosier, are you saying that I don't need to buy anything other than a motion detector switch and just change the NC and NO wires?

I really didn't want to complicate the issue. If you see the data sheets for the motion sensors available, it is possible that the wiring would allow for either a NO or a NC connection. You would have to be at least a little electric savvy to be able to discern that from the switches data sheet. All switches have data sheets, btw.

 

[fireburner23]

Let me get this straight.

I get myself:

1x Motion Detector (a light switch, or whatever that meets my needs)

1x 125VAC/10A DPDT Plug-In Relay (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049721)

1x Socket for 10-Amp Plug-In Relay (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062476&clickid=prod_cs)

and it should all come together, as long as I wire it up correctly?

 

[darksith]

Let me get this straight.

I get myself:
1x Motion Detector (a light switch, or whatever that meets my needs)
1x 125VAC/10A DPDT Plug-In Relay
1x Socket for 10-Amp Plug-In Relay
and it should all come together, as long as I wire it up correctly?

yup, thats all you should need. Whatever motion sensor that operates on 120v and the ice cube and base and you can pretty much do anything with it.

You need to wire it as follows. The motion sensor will need a constant 120v supply, then the switch leg (SL) usually a red wire goes to one side of the coil (usually tagged A1), the neutral goes to the other side of the coil (A2). Then you run your fan through a NO contact (just the hot wire), you can run the nuetral to your fan directly, it doesn't need to go through the contactor. Then everytime the motion sensor detects movement and fires its SL it will fire the ice cube which will open the power to your fan and anything else you want to turn on or off.

 

[fireburner23]

Great! I will post pictures showing how I did it once I get it working.
Thanks guys!

 

[El Toker]

The problem I would have with a motion detector is that it sometimes takes a couple of seconds to kick in. People are going to hear the fan as they approach the cabinet.

They are also going to notice the doors move slightly as the cabinet looses negative pressure and the doors relax to let some light shine out, or even worse let light shine in during the dark cycle.

I wouldn't have a grow where I didn't have complete control of who had access to the area it's in.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

darksith, Shouldn't he be connected to a Normally Closed contact of the relay? When the sensor energizes the relay, we want the circuit to open from it's normally closed position, yes?

 

[Tilt]

I deal with motion sensors all the time. I hate to say this because the idea is pretty cool. there is almost always a delay between the sensor seeing motion and and the action it is controlling. That means someone walking in the room will hear the fan then it will suddenly shut off. They might think wtf. They might stand still a little to long and the fan
comes on (wtf again). I have found a noise cover fan does not give people the wtf reaction.

If you sill want to do it. I was at home depot today looking at timers
$38.00 timer home depot needs to have (double throw) listed out side of the package
$10.00 motion sensor find them near security outdoor lighting
wire constant 120v to sensor
wire control 120v to timer
set timer to always on
wire nc from timer (normally closed) to your fan
set the parameters on your sensor

 

[darksith]

They are also going to notice the doors move slightly as the cabinet looses negative pressure and the doors relax to let some light shine out, or even worse let light shine in during the dark cycle.

Seriously? How do you know how secure his doors are, and what with you guys and the loss of neg pressure letting light out. Light isn't air. You befuddle me on this point. Its all in how the cabinet is put together.

darksith, Shouldn't he be connected to a Normally Closed contact of the relay?

Yeah, shit my bad, too much dubie or something, nice catch.

I deal with motion sensors all the time. I hate to say this because the idea is pretty cool. there is almost always a delay between the sensor seeing motion and and the action it is controlling.

On most sensors that he is thinking of there are time settings, so someone standing still for 30 secs won't matter. And as far as the delay goes, its a second or 2, so it all depends where he has it aimed to pick up movement. The more time for it to detect the better. Im just helping him get the wiring straight and the right shopping list, I haven't seen his house, and its his grow.

The only thing about using the kind of motion sensor your thinking of will be the daylight over ride. If you find its an issue I can tell you how to take that baby apart and disable it.

 

[fireburner23]

I have obtained the materials, but I am trying to figure out how the hell I am going to connect all these wires to the 8-pin relay. These pins are very close to each other.

 

[fireburner23]

I deal with motion sensors all the time. I hate to say this because the idea is pretty cool. there is almost always a delay between the sensor seeing motion and and the action it is controlling. That means someone walking in the room will hear the fan then it will suddenly shut off. They might think wtf. They might stand still a little to long and the fan
comes on (wtf again). I have found a noise cover fan does not give people the wtf reaction.

The grow box is going to be insulated, the duct work will be insulated, and will have a duct muffler. I am more worried about the quiet slooshing sound. I am planning on getting one of those TD100X (or the 150x) along with a variable variac transformer.
All these measures will quiet all the sound considerably, but not eliminate it.

I don't think the small delay on turning off the fan for a period of time will cause a concern or "wtf" feeling. But, I won't know till I get this whole thing together.

 

[El Toker]

Seriously? How do you know how secure his doors are, and what with you guys and the loss of neg pressure letting light out. Light isn't air. You befuddle me on this point.

By reading the thread, in post 15 GrnMtnGrwr says

Having negative pressure on the cab will slightly suck the doors shut, which helps to compress the weatherstripping that keeps my doors light/air tight. I run my fan 24/7, just like... every other grower that I know of. My cabinet is about 95% light tight without the fan on, the negative pressure just seals it up completely.

 

[fireburner23]

Where can I find a DPDT socket wiring diagram? I am not sure how to wire this thing up.

 

[cocktail frank]

u dont need a cube relay.
you could just get a dpdt general purpose open relay.

then just match the coil voltage to your motion sensor voltage.
hook the coil to the load wire and neutral(if 120v) coming from the sensor.
then tie yer fans from common to NC contacts.