mazar I shariff RSC line roms

[ngakpa]

G `day ngakpa

I read about the Sycthians using a tripod to make a tent they could stick their heads into . Rather than a full sized tent one might sleep in .

How about the info in RC Clarke`s Hashish about the Afghan Hash makers being from SW China ?

Thanks for sharin

EB .

yes, I didn't mean to imply different from what you read - the tents described and dug up seem to have been small, designed to concentrate the smoke from a fire --- making it doubly clear that the intent was to get high, not to bathe (as some Greeks seem to have thought)


the hash makers Clarke mentions were from Northwest China (Chinese Turkestan) not SW China

they were Uighurs - Central Asian Muslims, rather than Han Chinese

Clarke's idea in Hashish! is that they found wild broad leaf drug strains in the Kunar Valley in Afghanistan as they fled NW China in the '30s

but the idea is totally speculative - I don't buy it, and I notice they dropped it from the more recent book Cannabis

tbh I think the original observations Vavilov made in Kunar are pretty scant stuff to base a whole theory on, especially the idea of a whole seperate cannabis species - Clarke and Merlin say as much in the new book

I'm inclined to think it's all one species - that's still the mainstream consensus

 

[meizzwang]

Thanks Meizzwang for the update, did you have any late to sex? late finishers?

Hi Green,

You're welcome!

I only had one female plant, and it started preflowering around the first week of September, but it took forever to finish! Most plants preflowering here first week of september are done by end of October, but close to mid November, my mazar i sharif still could go a little longer.

I'd really love to hear how it does under your tropical conditions: after reading your chitrali report, it wouldn't be surprising if you're able to find genotypes that work for you! I'd also like to see how these do under tropical conditions as it appears there may be some unusual mold resistance, even on very thick buds!

 

[Water-]

hi

I hope you're alright mate, the nasty tone is a bit weird - this is an interesting topic, why not keep it nice?

just to try to clear a few things up, because this is interesting:

the points you're arguing with there are things I haven't even said, so we're in danger of things becoming meaningless

but anyway, the main problem that I have with the misleading claim about the Yamnaya being 'Europeans' is that it easily becomes 'cannabis was discovered by white guys', and it's clear why that is the last thing we need (the confused preoccupation with the role of genetics you've already shown is a good reason to be worried about that possibility)

I didn't say anything about the Yamnaya migrating into India, I've no idea where that idea comes from

likewise I said nothing about Afghan strains originating with the Yamnaya

all I said about the origins of Afghan strains is that the plants that grew wild along the Oxus River and were smoked by the Massagetae (a nomad confederation who existed much later than the Yamnaya, at a similar time to the Scythians) were almost certainly cannabis and are likely the distant ancestors of modern cultivated strains grown in places like Afghanistan

have a look at where the Oxus (Amu Darya) flows - it's largely dried up afaik, but its course goes directly past historic growing centers such as Bukhara and north of Mazar-i-Sharif -

steppe nomad confederations were throwing a plant that grew wild along that river onto fires 2500 years ago to get high

seems pretty clear to me that any modern cultivars from that region are going to have some of those genes

I think your personal issue with where Europe is and whose "white" and whose not is clouding your intellect .

Did you know the original use of the geographical term Europe was meant to describe the western shore of the Aegean Sea?

The science shows my claims about Yamnaya to be accurate and I already provided a link to the science journal it came from.

"A marked increase in cannabis achene records from East Asia between ca. 5,000 and 4,000 cal bp might be associated with the establishment of a trans-Eurasian exchange/migration network through the steppe zone, influenced by the more intensive exploitation of cannabis achenes popular in Eastern Europe pastoralist "

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00334-016-0579-6

Genetics and archaeology are a far better basis for arriving at the truth than sparse ancient accounts written by people like Herodotus, who may not have actually known what they are talking about.


It's certainly possible that the modern cannabis genetics in the area have been there for thousands of years. But like I said it has also been a cross roads for intercontinental trade since the beginning of humanity so without any evidence than it's purely speculation based on nothing but imagination.
Maybe someone will someday find an ancient stash that we could compare genetically.

 

[Elmer Bud]

G `day ngakpa

Uighurs huh ?
They are ethnically Turkish .I know a little about them . A hundred or so where arrested in Thailand where they were claiming refugee status . China said they were terrorists .
Thailand allowed them to be loaded blind folded on to a plane back to China .

I thought Clarke talked about Xiang Xing rather than Turkmenistan ? [The Uighur hash makers were from modern Krygistan region ?] Though it has been some time since I read the book .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[geneva_sativa]

Shen Nong was well aware, 5,000 years ago, of the effects from ingesting Cannabis

 

[igrowone]

in days of old, are we talking about smoking or eating?
or both, there is the impression that europeans were unacquainted with smoking with columbus and such bringing the pipe habit back from the america's
but i have seen other references where smoking was done in other ways
the scythians smoke lodges were one example
but hippocrates mentions the use of smoking colts foot leaves for lung complains, the smoke inhaled through a straw of some kind

 

[Water-]

C

 

[ngakpa]

G `day ngakpa

Uighurs huh ?
They are ethnically Turkish .I know a little about them . A hundred or so where arrested in Thailand where they were claiming refugee status . China said they were terrorists .
Thailand allowed them to be loaded blind folded on to a plane back to China .

I thought Clarke talked about Xiang Xing rather than Turkmenistan ? [The Uighur hash makers were from modern Krygistan region ?] Though it has been some time since I read the book .

Thanks for sharin

EB .

hi

Chinese Turkestan, not Turkmenistan

the Chinese name for the region is Xinjiang

it's where the Uighurs are from - it's a Central Asian region of China

Turks are originally from Central Asia (not Turkey)

Xinjang / Chinese Turkestan was orignally the global centre of commercial charas production - supplying the largest market in the world at the point, which was India

that continued until production was shut down by the KMT in the '30s, in an attempt to smash Uighur separatism

Afghanistan only began to emerge as a major centre of commercial production after that

a similar shift happened in the Eastern Med at the same time... Greece was the supplier of the other massive market for hashish, which was Egypt - but production was shut down by the Metaxas dictatorship in the '30s and moved to Lebanon

 

[ngakpa]

Shen Nong was well aware, 5,000 years ago, of the effects from ingesting Cannabis

Hi

Shennong isn't a historic figure who actually lived

he's a deity and legendary physician king from myth, who was said to have taught the ancient Chinese various skills

afaik there's no more historical evidence for him than there is for Cane and Abel

the Shennong Ben Cao Jing, which is the herbal text mentioning cannabis, probably dates to c. 200 - 250 AD... afaik some people date it even later than that... it's seen as a compilation of oral knowledge that is no doubt much older, but not something that indicates that people were getting high on cannabis in the region in 3000BC

 

[ngakpa]

in days of old, are we talking about smoking or eating?

according to Andrew Sherratt, who is the person to read on this, the earliest use of psychoactive herbs involved smoking

drinking cannabis came later, in emulation of wine drinking

 

[geneva_sativa]

Hi

Shennong isn't a historic figure who actually lived

he's a deity and legendary physician king from myth, who was said to have taught the ancient Chinese various skills

afaik there's no more historical evidence for him than there is for Cane and Abel

the Shennong Ben Cao Jing, which is the herbal text mentioning cannabis, probably dates to c. 200 - 250 AD... afaik some people date it even later than that... it's seen as a compilation of oral knowledge that is no doubt much older, but not something that indicates that people were getting high on cannabis in the region in 3000BC

Tell that to non-Anglo, Asian historians. . .

Same as many claim Native American history is only legends. . .

 

[Elmer Bud]

hi

Chinese Turkestan, not Turkmenistan

the Chinese name for the region is Xinjiang

it's where the Uighurs are from - it's a Central Asian region of China

Turks are originally from Central Asia (not Turkey)

Xinjang / Chinese Turkestan was orignally the global centre of commercial charas production - supplying the largest market in the world at the point, which was India

that continued until production was shut down by the KMT in the '30s, in an attempt to smash Uighur separatism

Afghanistan only began to emerge as a major centre of commercial production after that

a similar shift happened in the Eastern Med at the same time... Greece was the supplier of the other massive market for hashish, which was Egypt - but production was shut down by the Metaxas dictatorship in the '30s and moved to Lebanon

G`day ngapa

When I look at a map .
Xiang Xing is north of Tibet .And bordering Tajikstan and Krygistan . There are no Chinese provinces directly south of it . It is also the most westerly province .

Do you have a map with older borders ?

I agree there are more southerly provinces . Though in the western region it is the most southerly .

When you say KMT ? That is the Chinese Nationalist Army ? Kuomintang of China[ Backed by America ? Who fled to the Golden Triangle and Taiwan . When Mao won the civil war ?


Thanks for sharin

EB .

 

[Green]

Hi Green,

You're welcome!

I only had one female plant, and it started preflowering around the first week of September, but it took forever to finish! Most plants preflowering here first week of september are done by end of October, but close to mid November, my mazar i sharif still could go a little longer.

I'd really love to hear how it does under your tropical conditions: after reading your chitrali report, it wouldn't be surprising if you're able to find genotypes that work for you! I'd also like to see how these do under tropical conditions as it appears there may be some unusual mold resistance, even on very thick buds!

What’s up Meizzwang- I ran an Open pollination on a pack. But I started them late in July as I was looking for pollen. Was going to take a different approach then my chitrali project.
I outcrossed RSC MIS to a beautiful cbg mangobiche girl. I honestly don’t know if I should explore the F2s or back cross the MIS and look for late flowering individuals. What do you guys think? All I know is I need some ghani in the garden.

 

[ngakpa]

G`day ngapa

When I look at a map .
Xiang Xing is north of Tibet .And bordering Tajikstan and Krygistan . There are no Chinese provinces directly south of it . It is also the most westerly province .

Do you have a map with older borders ?

I agree there are more southerly provinces . Though in the western region it is the most southerly .

HI there,

I'm not sure what you're asking me here, sorry.

It's Xinjiang btw, not Xiang Xing --- Xinjiang means 'new frontier'

It's the far northwest of China, and it's geographically and culturally part of Central Asia --- the northernmost tip of Xinjiang is at about 50 degrees north

You can see how north it is if you look on a map with clear latitude parallels

it's not the most southerly region in the west though - Tibet is, and Tibet is also usually considered part of Central Asia (although Buddhism came from the south)

When you say KMT ? That is the Chinese Nationalist Army ? Kuomintang of China[ Backed by America ? Who fled to the Golden Triangle and Taiwan . When Mao won the civil war ?


Thanks for sharin

EB .

Yes

Although America afaik had nothing to do with their decision to shut down charas production in Xinjiang. At the time they were under no legal obligation to do that. It seems clear they did as part of their campaign to crush Uighur separatism - most Uighurs wanted their own republic and probably still do.

This is going off topic now, anyway, so let's get back to the Mazar-i-Sharif

 

[herbgreen]

This is going off topic now, anyway, so let's get back to the Mazar-i-Sharif

Whoa, whoa Whoa!!!!

I had have a whole off topic, topic to present....

The real history of the bong

The bong is probably the most popular and beloved smoking device in the history of human cannabis use. Some go as far as to name their bong. We collect and sometimes decorate our bongs, and we mourn our loss when they go to pieces. Yet, for something so precious, we know surprisingly little about the bong. And much of what we think we know about it is wrong, including the history of this wonderful device.

What you might have heard:
The bong is a descendent of the hookah. The word “bong” is derived from the Thai word ‘baung,’ which means ‘a cylindrical wooden tube, pipe or container cut from bamboo.’

This history was largely based on two factors. First, since cannabis is native to Central Asia, and has been used throughout history in China, it has always been assumed that the bong was invented in Asia. As the hookah uses water filtration like the modern bong, it was always assumed that the bong was developed from the hookah. [For those odd cases where this explanation didn’t work, it was assumed that straightening tobacco devices and filtering them through water led to the invention of the bong.]

Second, although early bongs have been discovered elsewhere, it has always been assumed that these bongs were introduced to the societies in which they were found by whomever introduced cannabis. Researchers had never seriously considered that the bong might have been invented outside of Asia. It was.

The bong was invented in Africa.

Previous studies of African smoking devices wrongly assumed that all smoking pipes radiated from the West Coast of Africa beginning when tobacco arrived on the continent. It was assumed that tobacco smoking spread across the savannah as a substitute stimulant for kola. Thus, whenever archaeologists found pipes in Africa, they automatically thought that the pipes were from 1600 CE or later. If this were true, it would mean that any African water pipe would be too young to have been invented before the hookah. But it was false. This theory completely missed the African cultures in the east and south that had been developing smoking devices before the arrival of tobacco.

We cannot be sure when cannabis first arrived in Africa, but archeologists believe that Africans smoked cannabis long before they ever smoked tobacco. J.C. Dombrowski found evidence of the earliest African cannabis smoking in Ethiopia. Eleven pipes were located in two caves and dated to between 1100 and 1400 CE. When researchers tested the pipes, they found ample cannabis residue. Here are the archaeologists’ drawings of the bowls they tested. Look familiar?

Yet the official story ignored this. In 1930, the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago printed a series of pamphlets about tobacco that speculated that the Portuguese brought the water pipe to the Africans from Persia. The pamphlets were later frequently used as a reference by researchers. However, this distorted guess at history was based on a belief that water pipes were recent to Africa. Archaeologists have since learned that this was wrong. But, until now, the history of the bong has never been corrected.

The first African pipes were built into the ground. Lighted embers were placed in a buried bottle and hemp was placed on top of the embers. An underground duct led from the chamber to a mouth tube a short distance away. The earth pipes looked so much like the earth pipes of Central Asia, that Henry Balfour concluded that, “The resemblances are sufficiently striking and numerous to suggest that they must be explained by the assumption of a culture link between the two widely separated areas.” Of course, this meant that they were invented in Asia. He never considered an African origin.

Balfour also found a “tube pipe,” which he believed might have been the ancestor of the water pipe. Today we call it a “bat” or a “chillum.” Balfour never explained why he thought Africans would have simultaneously adopted an outdated technology if they were brought the more advanced water pipe by the Arabs.

In 1924 Alfred Dunhill published a survey of the smoking pipes of the world. The book included a chapter on the widespread use of a water pipe in eastern and southern Africa that was a distinct design that he believed was the invention of the San people. Because this did not fit with the common theory, he was ignored.

In 1945, archaeologist Mary Leakey found this water pipe in Tanzania. The bowl on top is connected to the water chamber in the bottom by means of a tube; the mouthpiece is on the curved neck of the gourd.

At the time of her discovery, experts took for granted that Arab navigators brought cannabis and cannabis pipes to Africa during the middle of the thirteenth century. They reasoned that these cannabis pipes must have descended from Asian pipes. But this version of history never made sense.

The theory ignores the fact that cannabis in Asian Islamic societies was eaten, rather than smoked, before the introduction of the water pipe in the early years of the seventeenth century.

Furthermore, all archaeological evidence indicates that Africans primarily chewed and snuffed tobacco, while they mostly smoked cannabis. The alternate theory that the tobacco pipe was adapted to cannabis by straightening it out and filtering it through water was also wrong because cannabis predates tobacco in Africa.

Simply put: Africans invented the bong to smoke cannabis.

As for the name, we are told that it comes from the Thai word ‘baung.’ But could the Thai instead have adopted that word from the Africans? In modern day Kenya, right where Mary Leakey found her water pipe, lives a rapidly disappearing tribe called the Bong’om. Their language is also called Bong’om. Across the continent we find Bong County, Liberia. It is named after Mount Bong. Did all of these Africans cling to some Thai word for a piece of cut bamboo? Or… could the early Thai stoners have named their most beloved device after the people who invented it?

Source:

African Smoking and Pipes
John Edward Philips
The Journal of African History, Vol. 24, No. 3 (1983), pp. 303-319

https://www.420magazine.com/forums/general-420-talk/73197-real-history-bong.html

 

[Roms]

the plant in this image is a Chitrali plant, collected in Yarkhun, the same valley that the Chitrali is from (e.g. look at the leaf shape)

Salut Ngakpa bonne et heureuse année! Thanks to clear that up that's really a big Yarkhun plant! I thought it was a MIS given the size but not. Well they look a little alike i think even if MIS leaves are little bigger. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=771238&postcount=6

(edit).

 

[Roms]

F3bx2's jump in South Africa with DjKinetics thx!

Here is 70s Californian MIS, TRSC Ngakpa's download thx!

Here is F3bx2 with RasTarzan thx!

++

 

[Roms]

With too much guano fertliz cause leafy buds and late flowering problems...
A soft strawberry fruity specimen... RasTarzan save the cut for his great outdoor season. Vivement!

https://www.icmag.com/ic/member.php?u=413767

 

[Roms]

... Pump up! ^^

Past pics of mom Julia P1 2009 clone with Upok in South of France 2010...

2 clones together near in early season, then they were pollinated outdoor F2BX. Thanks a lot Mika!

Vibes bro i look forward your news on Earth!

 

[Cross Fox]

Just popped five RSC Mazar seeds in Happy Frog soil. I dont presoak seeds, so they were planted directly into the soil and I was seeing germination within 48 hours. All seedlings are healthy and continue to grow at a comparable rate.

On a side note, these plants mean the world to me. As a combat veteran of Afghanistan, it goes beyond words to be able to cultivate this particular offering. My aim is to gather more seeds and work this line to treat PTSD. Thank you to Namka and RSC for making this line available.