"Male hermies arent bad"

[Radicle Rye]

Ok so here is a real world example....I first started some '88G13/HP F2 by hazeman. I ended up pollinating one exceptional female with 3 males. I ended up making a bunch of seed.

So I started 10 of my F3's and have one male that has started intersexing once I put them outside ~3 weeks ago. It has only expressed intersex pistils on the very tip of the main cola.

Side branch with no intersexing

One more shot of the top

With an inbred line such as '88G13/HP would you hold onto this male in order to hold onto more genetic diversity? Wondering if this is the type of intersex plant that people are categorizing as "well behaved"?

 

[igrowone]

that was me with the 'well behaved' talk so I guess I own it
meant a hermie that isn't sneaky with hidden roosters, it shows its nanners plainly and gives warning
but I guess there's plenty of other traits that could be called well behaved

 

[Radicle Rye]

that was me with the 'well behaved' talk so I guess I own it
meant a hermie that isn't sneaky with hidden roosters, it shows its nanners plainly and gives warning
but I guess there's plenty of other traits that could be called well behaved

Thanks for the clarification.

Would love to hear others thoughts about the intersex male. For further clarification the pistils seem to fade away once the pollen bract matures. It had the best stem rub out of the whole bunch. I understand my population size is way too small, but imagine I had a population of say 100 would you get rid of this male? If you have the population of 10 like I have currently would you hold onto him?

 

[igrowone]

Thanks for the clarification.

Would love to hear others thoughts about the intersex male. For further clarification the pistils seem to fade away once the pollen bract matures. It had the best stem rub out of the whole bunch. I understand my population size is way too small, but imagine I had a population of say 100 would you get rid of this male? If you have the population of 10 like I have currently would you hold onto him?

i can't help much more than to repeat what others have said here
namely that keeping an intersex plant might work out, if you like what you see for other traits
I've had some luck doing that, I've seen some others say the same

 

[bagseedbudzai]

GG4×ABC supposed male (# 4 ) at 62 days trimmed to attempt reveg, week later pistils (69 days) then at 93 days, new growth towards the bottom looks like it isn't throwing more pistils. Doesnt look like seeds are forming yet but it's been 3 weeks since pollen. I got a few F2s started from 2 girls so we'll see what comes out. (Got a few ABC looking ones already )

 

[PolyChucker]

I don’t think you should use male herms but also some herm traits are not a reason to abandon a whole line - these things can be tracked and managed.
For example, a friend gave me some bagseed of Sugar Kiss. About 10 seeds - 4 of them turned into normal plants - all 4 female.
Because it was commercial weed and all female it is extremely likely that it’s from self pollination.
I crossed one of these females with my best looking male from another line making an F1.
The f1 had a lot of runts and out of about 50 seeds I got 12 healthy looking plants. They didn’t want to show gender after 8, 10 plus weeks of veg so I had to flip them to get them to show. 5 females 7 males. Being close to 50/50 I think - looks good. I pulled out the males and put them outside.
Then I get one of the males showing pistils. The theory is all herms are female to start and then they can switch to male under stress or if the male to female ratio is bad. Once the males are isolated then some can switch back to female to improve the ratio again.
So then I’m thinking - 5 females, one female turned male, 6 males - perfect 50/50 with one herm. That was the thinking until 5/7 males showed pistils. Now I’m wondering if the male I used last generation was actually a female turned male. Because it’s starting to seem like 10/12 plants with pistils means it’s actually all female or herm offspring. In this case I’m debating whether to go another round with my most normal looking two males and the best females from the group or just call it and end the line

 

[Redrum92]

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Got more info than I know what to do with

 

[numberguy]

Finished self pollinated male seeds. They average a little smaller than normal seeds.

S1 male's two of them, just to see what happens, planted late. Have not looked for sex yet

 

[GMT]

Oh they are female, and I suspect they will Hermie heavily, just like their mum did. That's assuming the current theories are correct of course.

 

[Rgd]

Ok so here is a real world example..

use it../.keep track of the male /female ratio..and if any female off/spring show male pods

and don't listen to "dock talk"

you have a chance to prove something to yourself and people here

and speculation is inexpensive

 

[GMT]

A Y will silence an X, but an X may not sufficiently silence the autosome.

 

[Crazy Chester]

S1 male's two of them, just to see what happens, planted late. Have not looked for sex yet

Too cool - I'm excited to see how they turn out. Theoretically, my understanding is they are "regular" seeds - some male, some female and perhaps hermies as well.

 

[numberguy]

S1 male's two of them, just to see what happens, planted late. Have not looked for sex yet

The shorter one black bucket is showing male, the taller one has one preflower that looks female but time will tell. pics when they are further along.

 

[GMT]

Oh, my apologies, when you said S1 males, I thought you were talking about S1 seeds that you thought were male. What I now realise is you meant Male S1's. Something completely different. Yeah you'll get 50-50 ratio of male to female seeds.

 

[numberguy]

The shorter one black bucket is showing male, the taller one has one preflower that looks female but time will tell. pics when they are further along.

Confirmed the tall one is female the short one a male. I may not keep the male alive long enough to see if he sprouts female flowers. Still too early for good pics. The plants are from a male that had female flowers and were self pollinated, see previous posts.

 

[GMT]

It's a terminology thing. I'll try to make it as clear as I can.
A plant that shows both flowers on one plant, without any chemical reversal having taken place, is a female Hermie. Therefore you will only ever get female offspring from such a plant. Some of which will Hermie to varying degrees, all the way up to appearing male. These aren't normally called S1's, but rather Hermie seeds.
A male that is chemically reversed, maybe self pollinated, and will give male and female offspring. These are Male S1's.
A female that is chemically reversed, will only give female offspring. These are S1's.

This is true of all XY determining drug cannabis. There are also areas where this is no longer the case, such as in the X to autosome determination system. Here there is no Y. All plants are female technically, however some show exclusively male flowers, for reasons I'm not going into here, unless asked. But these are X to autosomes. Here S1's have different rules and can produce solid females and Hermies in various states of intersex, again up to giving the appearance of being male. But they aren't.
In fibre cannabis (hemp), you can get more than 2 DNA strands per cell. The Y will still always silence an X, it will always silence 2 X's, however struggles when there are 3 X's to silence. But now I'm off topic.
Really hope that's of some help, and now I'm out unless called back

 

[numberguy]

So you think all the seeds I made with that male are hermi seeds even if they never actually herm? I dont think I am going to call females that dont herm hermi's. Time will tell as seeds from one of the female's the herm male pollinated are also being run. None of the sister females that he pollinated hermed, I kept two of them and running them outside so will know if they herm without being pollinated.

 

[GMT]

That wasn't a male, it was a hermi female. Males don't hermi and you didn't chemically reverse it.
Females that don't hermi shouldn't be called hermies, but neither should you call a female with balls, male. No matter how many she has.

 

[OntologicalTurn]

It is never a good idea to introduce hermie genes into your work, however sometimes you are at a loss; I have a line where ALL males are hermies, (they start out as declared males but show some hairs during flowering, especially on the tips of the branches ),the females, on the other hand, are stable, so in this case they don't represent a problem...
You have to know your plants, know what they can pass on to the next generations (and take a little risk)

I have the same experience with Zamal Kalite Tizane, all males where hermies, and somewhere i read Dubi have the same experience with the zamal mom of Zamaldelica.

 

[Crazy Chester]

That wasn't a male, it was a hermi female. Males don't hermi and you didn't chemically reverse it.
Females that don't hermi shouldn't be called hermies, but neither should you call a female with balls, male. No matter how many she has.

Something about this doesn't make sense to me - it prompts way more questions in me than it answers.

What makes sense to me: 1) two sexes; and, 2) each sex will grow flowers of the other sex if it feels it needs to in order to ensure the genetics survive into the future.

Do you think there's a genetic difference between a plant that has only expressed female sexual parts until chemically reversed and the same plant that expresses male parts due to some non-chemical reversal?

How would anyone know if the plant that expressed female parts is really a male?

If the answer is to make seeds with it to see what parts its offspring expresses - how would one ever know if any apparent males in the offspring are really female hermies? What if several flowerings have been done and the plant in question doesn't show the opposite sex's flowers?

Do you know of anyone attempting to re-veg an apparent male - like the people in the last few pages of this thread have done - that doesn't respond by expressing female flowers? What makes sense to me in that regard: 1) the structure of a male flower is such that it can't be re-vegged; and, 2) it can only pass its genetics into the future if it grows female parts, because it can make a seed that way, or, if those parts are not pollinated, the female part possesses the ability to re-veg.

Do you know of any true males? Is there a way to know if a plant is a true male without actually looking at its DNA?