LIVE from 5,000 below on the Gulf floor!

[Strainhunter]

Another interesting day full of failures to stop or at least significantly slow down the flow of oil.

I took a few pictures of what was happening today and commented so the interested ones know what's up:

ICM makes the pics a certain size, if you have a hard time reading what I commented on the pics just click the bar on top of every pic to show it full size.

 

[ParadigmShift]

Thanks for the pics. I don't understand why they are sawing anything off, couldn't they just unscrew them there bolts, knock off the top piece and add a shut-off valve similar to this one?
Just trying to understand the logic, I have no idea.

 

[Strainhunter]

Thanks for the pics. I don't understand why they are sawing anything off, couldn't they just unscrew them there bolts, knock off the top piece and add a shut-off valve similar to this one?
Just trying to understand the logic, I have no idea.

I asked my old super the same thing and he said there is WAY too much torque on the nuts and bolts to be able to undo them in 5k depth using robots.

 

[ParadigmShift]

Thanks for clearing that up SH

 

[Danks2005]

Seems like they could come up with a way to impliment high torque, unbolt the top piece from the flange, then bolt on a new piece with a wide open hydraulic valve, once bolted into place close the valve, end of story. Seems like with all the technology available a high torqued bolt would be beatable, I mean apparently they were able to torque them down at 5000', they should be able to back em off at 5000'.

Proper gearing is old news, multiplying the available torque, even if it took days per bolt to slow turn em.

 

[Strainhunter]

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OK now BIG WTF get this, read the whole article!

Sen. Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat, said the apparent suppression of the tapes prevented an independent analysis of how much oil was spilling, a move that might eventually save BP.
The difference between a spill of 5,000 barrels a day and 20,000 barrels a day is $15 million a day. millions, since federal fines are based on $1,000 a day per barrel. "It clearly tells us why they drug their feet to release these tapes," Nelson said. "I guess they were hoping that they could get it under control and this whole problem would go away."

BP and Feds Withheld Videos Showing Massive Scope of Oil Spill


Coast Guard Told Public Not to 'Fixate' On Rate of Spill While Sitting On Video



New videos show more clearly than ever how BP, with little resistance from the Coast Guard or other federal agencies, kept the public in the dark about just how bad things were beneath the surface of the Gulf of Mexico.
On May 1, 11 days after the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, and nine days after oil began spilling into the Gulf, the Coast Guard had still only released a single image of oil leaking a mile beneath the surface -- a fuzzy photograph of a broken pipe spewing oil.



But inside the unified command center, where BP and federal agencies were orchestrating the spill response, video monitors had already displayed hours of footage they did not make public. The images showed a far more dire situation unfolding underwater. The footage filmed by submarines showed three separate leaks, including one that was unleashing a torrent of oil into the Gulf.
BP officials said they made all the video available to federal officials.
"The video has been available to the unified command from the very beginning," said Mark Proegler, a BP spokesman. "It's always been here from the beginning. They had it."



Coast Guard officials told ABS News that BP refused to allow them to release the more startling images, arguing they were proprietary. But at the time, the agency was doing little to convey to the world what the images were showing. Coast Guard Admiral Mary Landry was sticking with estimates, calculated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which put the spill's size at about 5,000 barrels a day for several weeks. Coast Guard officials said they were focused on the response, and advised the public not to worry about just how much oil was pouring into the water.
"I would caution you not to get fixated on an estimate of how much is out there," said Adm. Landry.
Two days later, as oil continued to spew, Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano said much the same thing.



"This fixation on the number of barrels is a little bit misleading," said Napolitano.
BP officials said everyone inside the Unified Command center in Louisiana agreed that the 5,000 barrel figure was the best they could offer.


But Dr. Ian MacDonald, an oceanographer and oil expert at Florida State University said he disagrees, and he remains "baffled and bothered" by the decision to keep under wraps the images that he believes indicated the spill was much bigger.

We need to know what's coming at us," he told ABS News. "You know, we are Americans, we respond to threats. Don't sugarcoat it. Tell us the truth and we'll do the best we can. And I think that's exactly what didn't happen here. The government, I'm sorry to say has been behind the information curve every step in this process."

Sen. Bill Nelson , a Florida Democrat, said the apparent suppression of the tapes prevented an independent analysis of how much oil was spilling, a move that might eventually save BP millions, since federal fines are based on $1,000 a day per barrel.
The difference between a spill of 5,000 barrels a day and 20,000 barrels a day is $15 million a day. "It clearly tells us why they drug their feet to release these tapes," Nelson said. "I guess they were hoping that they could get it under control and this whole problem would go away."

 

[Strainhunter]

Seems like they could come up with a way to impliment high torque, unbolt the top piece from the flange, then bolt on a new piece with a wide open hydraulic valve, once bolted into place close the valve, end of story. Seems like with all the technology available a high torqued bolt would be beatable, I mean apparently they were able to torque them down at 5000', they should be able to back em off at 5000'.

Proper gearing is old news, multiplying the available torque, even if it took days per bolt to slow turn em.

Well I would agree with you but the BOP was assembled before sunk.

On another note have you tightened wheel bolts on a Semi Truck (steel wheels, not aluminum!) and then tried to undo them 6 months later and being driven on winter roads?

Same thing down there after sitting for a while in a hostile environment.
Not gonna happen that easy.

 

[rabid]

There are tools that do just that. They are in widespread use in the oilfields and elsewhere. I've used them underwater up to 15,000 psi torque. Once the initial setup is complete they are quite fast but loosening them is more time-consuming and more difficult than tightening them.

Check it out:

http://www.hydratight.com/en/products/tension

 

[Danks2005]

I am familiar with bolts, stainless are the worst, the hard metal threads almost bond, and you usually end up breaking them before you can unthread them. But breaking them still gets them out. Although it did slip my mind that they were torqued on land before sinking. But what about drilling them out, that is what I routinely do when backing them out is not an option. Drill em out, and replace with larger proper sized bolts.

A different subject but in my opinion BP is more concerned about obtaining the oil, as opposed to capping the well.

 

[Danks2005]

If there is some way for the ROV to anchor itself to the pipe or other structure, and remain in one spot, it seams that drilling them out would be doable. And even if the holes arent perfect, a good gasket could cover the imperfections.

 

[rabid]

For this part of the operation there's no need to remove what's left of the riser. The containment dome can seal onto the lip of the flange.

Where BP screwed the pooch was in not using another diamond saw identical to the one that broke yesterday. Or using the 30" circular blade saw for however long it would have taken. This would have resulted in a clean, square cut. Now there's not enough area remaining on the riser to install a BOP or valve system. If they need to do that they have no choice but to unbolt/remove the riser flange.

 

[Danks2005]

For this part of the operation there's no need to remove what's left of the riser. The containment dome can seal onto the lip of the flange.QUOTE]

Yeah, I am aware of this, but, I could give two shits about them obtaining and selling the oil with their siphon cap. I would rather them take it down the flange, then mount a piece of pipe with an open valve, then close the valve and capping the well.

 

[Strainhunter]

"Fuck, why me????"

 

[Strainhunter]

 

[Danks2005]

That is very disturbing. I am concerned about the wildlife, but everytime I think about this whole thing, I think of the commercial fisherman, the oyster farmers, hotel owners, and the local economies that will never be the same. I really doubt BP will be paying their bills for the next 30years. Their are so many livelyhoods destroyed, it is sickening.

 

[sparkjumper]

I'm pretty sure its the high pressure that makes unscrewing those bolts impossible,I know that there are times I'm feeling physically sick over this shit.I live here because of the gulf of mexico,take that away and its just a hot cheap place to live.I'm sure its making plenty of people ill

 

[Danks2005]

Yeah, I live near the Gulf of Mexico too. My biggest hobby is recreational fishing, my wife loves to go to the beaches, and now I may as well move to Cali and see what the Pacific is all about, I just can't live without water nearby, and freshwater just don't cut it.

 

[rabid]

I'm pretty sure its the high pressure that makes unscrewing those bolts impossible

These tension tools routinely work at 5000' depths and more. Here's a fast and dirty solution to removing the nuts. No drilling necessary. Watch the video:

http://www.hydratight.com/en/products/ancillary-products/nutsplitters

 

[Danks2005]

These tension tools routinely work at 5000' depths and more. Here's a fast and dirty solution to removing the nuts. No drilling necessary. Watch the video:

http://www.hydratight.com/en/products/ancillary-products/nutsplitters

That's pretty sharp, I love learning of new tools. So, why did they cut the pipe when there is a perfectly good flange there? Seems like this nutsplitter would easily attach to an ROV.

 

[rabid]

They were attempting to cut the riser pipe just below the bend when the diamond blade saw jammed and broke. The object was to leave a good portion of pipe exposed with a square and clean cut and still perfectly round to facilitate the sealing of the containment dome (or maybe a valve assembly later if the dome doesn't work properly). A "Smart Flange" would have been installed on the riser pipe providing a flange to connect any number of items to help cap the well.

Smart Flange:

http://www.oceaneering.com/subsea-products/pipeline-repair-systems/smart-flange-plus-connector/

Now that's impossible because they used the "super shears", mangled the pipe out of round and now have nowhere near a square cut. Plus there's no longer enough "meat" on the riser to work with. If they had just taken their time with the cutting yesterday they wouldn't be in this situation now.