And a lovely bloke too! Seriously, great guy.
I wish I hadn't let those seed he gave me get old. I'm considering buying some Gibberellic acid to see if I can coax em out of their shells.
Let's not bullshit each other, what yields are vert growers achieving?
- Thread starter GuerrillaRed
- Start date
And a lovely bloke too! Seriously, great guy.
I wish I hadn't let those seed he gave me get old. I'm considering buying some Gibberellic acid to see if I can coax em out of their shells.
I have run both extensively and find horizontal is better yield and effort wise. You read a lot of bullshit on this forum, often from people who have questionable growing skills themselves.
SirStynkalot
Member
I've been thinking about and researching this all day. Think I'm probably going to be chewing on it for months to come. Just had a holy shit moment. If you're pitching what I think you're pitching, if I were you I'd go WWOOFing for a year and document it to prove each piece of the concept (except biogas generation which you can do on your own) and then write a book. Copyright that and pitch to money and you have a chance to be set in a BIG way. TED talk status. Holy shit. Sustainable ag and energy are buzz words these days... especially energy in this market. Growers are literally tanking the rural energy infrastructure across washington because you make a lot less if you try to conserve like we are. As far as I can guess, some of the premises for the key parts would require a lot looser regulations and more up front capital than I'm dealing with (plus a lot higher investment of my time over the next 5 years than I can give) but if I'm thinking what you're thinking then my gods. Hate to say it but if I wasn't starting law school in two months and busting my ass in the meantime I'd be trying to integrate a lot of what you said into my op. Good on you and thank you for the hints! Like they say on permaculture farms, this should be 80% planning and 20% planting...
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SirStynkalot
Member
I think he's talking about running a self sustaining "farm" and using the byproducts to generate energy and nutrients for a cannabis patch. Kinda like how some of us grow mushrooms or ferment mash for a still and pipe the CO2 from it into the grow room. Done both. Two crops instead of one for almost no extra work. I actually saw almost this exact fucking thing done on a small scale (3.5 acres) on vacation in Hawaii last week. Swear to the gods... and they take WWOOFers, which is why I mentioned. It was all outdoors instead of an indoor/gh hybrid and doesn't include all the parts he's talking about, but something really close to what he's talking about does exist. The cannabis patch was very small - probably about 10'x20'. Guessing because I didn't see it but I could sure smell it. So that should give you an idea of the scale needed to make something like this commercial. It functioned like a hippie commune from the 70s. Employees lived on and lived off of the land. The model works but the startup cost is intense and you need supplemental income to keep it going on less than at least 100 acres in a very, very fertile area by my best guess. The place I went to had a bunch of guest houses they rented out for yoga retreats at a high fucking premium compared to what I'm used to in rural Washington. Right now you also basically need free labor if you're running this for $15/lb food crops as a primary focus but piping the excess into a high value drug crop would fix that in a hurry. The place I visited uses most of its excess for other medical crops, mainly aloe due to all the employees' sun exposure. In a sense what he's proposing is hybridizing two wildly different models for commercial ag and taking advantage of the huge price of cannabis to fix the main problem with both - startup costs.
If I have this right then what he's talking about incorporates a lot more than vert lighting for cannabis and the discussion might be better placed in the advanced growing or organic sections, but the vert specific part would function basically like light movers on steroids. The rotation schedule would get around the main thing that I have heard people attribute lower productivity to - the plant diverting energy to angle its leaves toward the lights. Of course, you could also use the supplemental power for something else and just sell the excess biomass or grow a shitton of tomatoes (or in the case of the place I visited aloe and ginseng) but this is a cannabis growing site. It'd work for ganja just as easily.
I'm not going to go into any more detail for what he's envisioning because that's his wish, but I think he's actually not full of shit. Swear to all the gods except my own. Wasn't planning on eating my words when I posted here, but as promised, I now announce that in my opinion his dick is the second swingy-est in the land except for Freds. Cause Fred put me on to fungicidal paint and that shit is a godsend.
Also, I can tell you right now Medicine Man wouldn't be interested. I've checked them out. They're running semi-organic and they have their shit the way they want it. The lab-approved tag says their ganja has a high THC content but their ganja says they're lowering their penetration and spraying with pyrethrins well within a month before harvest. I did a blind taste test across Denver about a year ago and my impression was those guys have a fucking perfect retail location and a master grower who knows how to milk.
If I have this right then what he's talking about incorporates a lot more than vert lighting for cannabis and the discussion might be better placed in the advanced growing or organic sections, but the vert specific part would function basically like light movers on steroids. The rotation schedule would get around the main thing that I have heard people attribute lower productivity to - the plant diverting energy to angle its leaves toward the lights. Of course, you could also use the supplemental power for something else and just sell the excess biomass or grow a shitton of tomatoes (or in the case of the place I visited aloe and ginseng) but this is a cannabis growing site. It'd work for ganja just as easily.
I'm not going to go into any more detail for what he's envisioning because that's his wish, but I think he's actually not full of shit. Swear to all the gods except my own. Wasn't planning on eating my words when I posted here, but as promised, I now announce that in my opinion his dick is the second swingy-est in the land except for Freds. Cause Fred put me on to fungicidal paint and that shit is a godsend.
Also, I can tell you right now Medicine Man wouldn't be interested. I've checked them out. They're running semi-organic and they have their shit the way they want it. The lab-approved tag says their ganja has a high THC content but their ganja says they're lowering their penetration and spraying with pyrethrins well within a month before harvest. I did a blind taste test across Denver about a year ago and my impression was those guys have a fucking perfect retail location and a master grower who knows how to milk.
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SirStynkalot
Member
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See DHF you need to double stack bulbs etc yet the numbers your saying 95 percent of VERT growers are not getting i would really love to see a pic of your grow ou keep talking about ....
Hell i will use FlowerFarmer vert tree grow PPK his numbers when broken down was actually don't quote me on it and i am not going to look what he wrote but it was to the tune of .56 or something like that ??? 8 K i believe never got his final numbers But i think he is doing horizontal grow now i think his word were to get better numbers
Even the guy that has the pinned VERT thread switched back to Horizontal if it was a sure kick horizontal ass from start to finish then i got to ask my self why on EARTH would anyone go back to horizontal with 135 percent more space and so called better everything LIKE I SAID if you do not pull 2.5 min you fucked up then ??? guess pretty much all vert growers are FUCKING up ????
Curious whats your thought 1 k vs 1k you think vert would kill horizontal grow ???
You mention 3 - 600's and 16 plants vert why could you not put more ?? being growing vert you have what is 135 percent more space ?? whats the odds of guy running 3 - 600s horizontal and times that 16 plants x 3 ??? VERT would still win ???? just curious
Hell i will use FlowerFarmer vert tree grow PPK his numbers when broken down was actually don't quote me on it and i am not going to look what he wrote but it was to the tune of .56 or something like that ??? 8 K i believe never got his final numbers But i think he is doing horizontal grow now i think his word were to get better numbers
Even the guy that has the pinned VERT thread switched back to Horizontal if it was a sure kick horizontal ass from start to finish then i got to ask my self why on EARTH would anyone go back to horizontal with 135 percent more space and so called better everything LIKE I SAID if you do not pull 2.5 min you fucked up then ??? guess pretty much all vert growers are FUCKING up ????
Curious whats your thought 1 k vs 1k you think vert would kill horizontal grow ???
You mention 3 - 600's and 16 plants vert why could you not put more ?? being growing vert you have what is 135 percent more space ?? whats the odds of guy running 3 - 600s horizontal and times that 16 plants x 3 ??? VERT would still win ???? just curious
When the revolution comes Freds and I will be smoking fat spliffs down on the farm bullshitting about the old days, eating bbq, and watching the dogs chase each other around....
Damn how you guys growing such dank shit? Your brains been fried.
Can I come to the farm with my chickens? Get this eggs come out of their ass. And if you kill them they are full of something that taste like chicken.
Can I come to the farm with my chickens? Get this eggs come out of their ass. And if you kill them they are full of something that taste like chicken.
Booooooo! lol... Sorry Skip, just having some fun. 
lickalotapus
Member
You heard the man! Back on track.
Okay iv been vert for about a year now and my grow is 2x sensi bigbuds from seed in 20 L buckets (5gal) canna coco with canna coco nutes .2x600w bulbs for flower . Inside a 1.2x1.2 x2.2 cupboard I built . The plants are trained around a 140 cm tall x 72cm wide screen .
Yield is always between 2-3 lb per run. Everything is on timers including watering and all I do is mix nutes once a week and transplant my veging plants when needed . And train during stretch . Its a simple low maintanance system that pulls 1 - 1.5 lb per 600w every time and I wont be changing much about my system except Smart pots next run. Iv been meani g to theow some picks up . Prob will next run . Plants are just vegging now
Okay iv been vert for about a year now and my grow is 2x sensi bigbuds from seed in 20 L buckets (5gal) canna coco with canna coco nutes .2x600w bulbs for flower . Inside a 1.2x1.2 x2.2 cupboard I built . The plants are trained around a 140 cm tall x 72cm wide screen .
Yield is always between 2-3 lb per run. Everything is on timers including watering and all I do is mix nutes once a week and transplant my veging plants when needed . And train during stretch . Its a simple low maintanance system that pulls 1 - 1.5 lb per 600w every time and I wont be changing much about my system except Smart pots next run. Iv been meani g to theow some picks up . Prob will next run . Plants are just vegging now
rotating plant or spinners appears it never really took off i wonder why
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHcquGHzvJI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHcquGHzvJI
Bongstar420
Member
I wouldn't grow that stuff at 2g/w..it looks like 15% THC or less
But then again, my goal isn't to cause the bottom of the market to fall out due to a flood of mids.
I suspect its difficult to train....I've plants which grow down later in
I get lots of problems with branches hanging almost to the ground.
But then again, I have to stay legal with trees and they don't randomly fit together that well..
So again, I wanna see more than 1g per watt of fire vs less than .5g/w of same just horizontal being the difference. I don't want to see a plant which is bred for vert which does not make peoples hats blow off.
Max 100 lb per tomato plant per year..you might get 2 plants under 1k
If you can get top of the line LED for the same price as dirt cheap HPS, then maybe you won't be selling to the ultra rich or ultra snobby only.
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/greenhouse/hydroponics/economics.html
But then again, my goal isn't to cause the bottom of the market to fall out due to a flood of mids.
I suspect its difficult to train....I've plants which grow down later in
I get lots of problems with branches hanging almost to the ground.
But then again, I have to stay legal with trees and they don't randomly fit together that well..
So again, I wanna see more than 1g per watt of fire vs less than .5g/w of same just horizontal being the difference. I don't want to see a plant which is bred for vert which does not make peoples hats blow off.
Max 100 lb per tomato plant per year..you might get 2 plants under 1k
If you can get top of the line LED for the same price as dirt cheap HPS, then maybe you won't be selling to the ultra rich or ultra snobby only.
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/greenhouse/hydroponics/economics.html
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so the whole truth nothing but the truth lol here is a perfect example comparing a reflected light to a non please note that the par level is 500 and change pretty much the same as if it was vertical light is being sent 360 degrees please note when different reflectors is used how par ratings change
So the real answer is wonder why there is so much stretch in vertical simple your only hitting plant with 500 + par
But hey lets hit it with stacked so 2 tiers are getting 500 par does that mean combined your only giving your plants 1050 par i would think so
so really whats better good reflected light giving your plant 1700 per 1000 or two 1000's giving you 1050 ??? to be fair 2 - 1000 under good reflector = 3400 par between both of them 2 - 1000 watt verticals gives you 1050 woot no wonder there not killing horizontal
Truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IvrOL6Vtbo
So the real answer is wonder why there is so much stretch in vertical simple your only hitting plant with 500 + par
But hey lets hit it with stacked so 2 tiers are getting 500 par does that mean combined your only giving your plants 1050 par i would think so
so really whats better good reflected light giving your plant 1700 per 1000 or two 1000's giving you 1050 ??? to be fair 2 - 1000 under good reflector = 3400 par between both of them 2 - 1000 watt verticals gives you 1050 woot no wonder there not killing horizontal
Truth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IvrOL6Vtbo
lickalotapus
Member
im in australia lol there is no low grade mids or fire .its nearly all shit . Sensi bigbud with a cure is better than 90% of whats around
I looked back at that thread and you're a bit off. He never gave final numbers but both him AND YOU guesstimated it at 12lbs. That's 5376g and he was running 6400w (you looked at what he wanted to do for next grow, which was replace his four 600w for 1000w). So he got about .84g/w. But even then he was fighting mites/bugs the whole time.
And who are you talking about that switched back? I looked at the top 3 or so pinned threads and only one went back to horizontal, but it was only for one grow. Looking at his past grows it looks like the horizontal was his best, but his verts were all multiple strain and most he had some issue, while his horizontal grow was all the same strains (two strains total but only one strain in each tray). Hell he even supercropped EVERY clone and altered the light schedule because one strain does much better with 13/11. I personally think sogs are the best, so I'm not trying to defend vertical, I'm just saying you can't go by grows where one way is half assed or has problems while another way is well planned and executed.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the horizontal vs vertical yield that this thread is about?
You can't say you get 3400 par with two lights horizontal and 1050 with them vertical. If you redirect so much energy with the reflectors and measure that
then you can't ignore that energy from the vertical example. Sure you get ~1000 par combined with stacked vert bulbs, but that's only 25% of what's being spit out. Horizontal will have more par per sq ft but a smaller footprint and vertical will have less par per sq ft but a bigger foot print.
Why would you not say that the vid although the light was not vertical it read 560 with out any reflector so its safe to say that a light hung vertical will be the same 560 from the source ????
It also showed the importance of quality of reflector determined par ratings now i am curious you think a lamp pounding out 560 par in 360 degrees is going to outperform a horizontal pushing 1800 ?????
like i said would love to see a side by side 1000 watt vertical vs 1000 watt DE 4 plant grow same strain same food same environment..
Now of course your going to have to train the vertical so lets do the same with horizontal top , and crop
I would still place bets 50- 75 big buds per plant will out yield 100 small buds per plant vertical any day of the week
It also showed the importance of quality of reflector determined par ratings now i am curious you think a lamp pounding out 560 par in 360 degrees is going to outperform a horizontal pushing 1800 ?????
like i said would love to see a side by side 1000 watt vertical vs 1000 watt DE 4 plant grow same strain same food same environment..
Now of course your going to have to train the vertical so lets do the same with horizontal top , and crop
I would still place bets 50- 75 big buds per plant will out yield 100 small buds per plant vertical any day of the week
Attachments
"Training?"
Wtf is that?
No training bras for my girls!
Wtf is that?
No training bras for my girls!
that is why i cannot do it it would be biased on my part and of course end results would have people claiming i did it wrong i am happy with 2 - 3 pounds per 1 k consistently 4 plants my next investments are nanolux 1215 watt DE was waiting on results from buddies grow comparing nano to Epaps and from what he is telling me EPAPS are lacking big time and for 416 bucks for nano with other features already there is a win win
