It's not just your Grandfather's Synthetic Marijuana anymore.

[HempKat]

I know just what you´re talking about as I´m in the same situation. I basically have the same amount to live (or should I say exist on?) and no - it just is not enough. It´s gotten even worse these past few years. And the recent political situation has just made things even worse. prices have gone up even more ...and this is just the beginning.

Yeah I know, they're doing a few things over here to help reduce the impact, like in my State they've temporarily suspended the tax automatically added to gas prices to raise money for maintaining roads and bridges but then can only hold that off for so long and if gas prices keep going up when they do finally add the tax back in it will be like a sudden unexpected price increase on top of what would already be high gas prices Also like you we haven't really seen the full impact on how the current situation will effect food prices which are already high do to issues that affected food prices last year. There's really not much sense in worrying too much though we'll just have to wait and see what happens and try to deal with it as best we can when it does. Fortunately I don't have to drive more the 2-3 miles for things I need so due to that and no real social life I can make a full tank of gas stretch out for 2-3 months at a time.

 

[HempKat]

Hi sam do u see any potential for synthetic cannabinoides to be used in cancer treatment?
I mean to induce apoptosis and also to treat the sideeffects of chemotherapie.
thx chilliwilli

I know you asked Sam and hopefully he'll still respond but to sort of answer your question on of the sites I looked at when researching this seemed to suggest that these synthesized cannabinoids did seem to still help people in a medicinal sense with the benefit of having less of the potentially unwanted "high" effects. The only problem and why I say "seemed to suggest" is this was more based on polling of a fairly small group and so not really solid research and it didn't specify what specific medical benefits those who said they still felt benefits, were actually getting. Unfortunately I can't remember the site where I saw that to give you a link to check out for yourself.

 

[HempKat]

Thank you Hempkat.my brother gave me some kratom a year ago.he suggested taking a tablespoon and chasing it with water.the taste was kinda gross but I've had worse.i needed more than 1 table spoon but he didn't give me much.i could definitely feel an opioid like affect though.i could get a pound or kilo from the liquor store but it's quality is questionable.

Well if you're doubtful about the quality of the liquor store where you might buy it but you still give it a try, I would say buy relatively small amounts at first until you have a better feel for how reliable the quality is.

 

[HempKat]

that is a really shitty situation to be in. And what I take from this is that the real problem in this scenario is actually poverty. am I right?

It´s a paradox type of world isn´t it? One guy cannot get meds because he´s taking other meds to get by and others cannot get meds unless they take enough of meda ...

I´ve got to admit that I have considered selling my meds to make a little cash but I wouldn´t know where and how. Over here we don´t get tested or anything as far as I know, but then again I´m not talking about painkillers. In other words - mine aren´t on the most wanted list lol.

You could argue that poverty is the problem but I think that unfairly puts the blame on the poor, most who live in poverty don't do so by choice it's more a matter of circumstances beyond their control. So rather then it being poverty to blame it's fairer in my opinion to say it's a lack of willingness of the government to help people get out of poverty. Most of the time the government does nothing to help or the help only solves some of the side effects of poverty but not solve the cause of the poverty To give an example of what I mean, I know a woman who is really in retirement and her husband became disabled and because they can't afford someone to provide the care he needs she can't go back to work to supplement their income because her husband needs around the clock care. Between the benefits he gets and she gets they have just enough to cover rent and utilities but not enough money for food but there combined income is just high enough that they qualify for food assistance but only $15 worth per month. @ people can't feed themselves on $15 for a week let alone a month. So she needs the government to be much more reasonable on the food assistance or to provide some form of medical benefit that would cover someone coming to the home to care for her husband so she could be free to go back to work to bring in more money.

 

[HempKat]

have a look at these spiceheads
haha i'll stick to weed thanks

Again nobody is talking about using Spice, as far as I know you can't even get Spice any more. The stuff I'm talking about is nothing like Spice and is derived entirely from Hemp.

 

[armedoldhippy]

The stuff I'm talking about is nothing like Spice and is derived entirely from Hemp.

that was why Sams response confused me. he said that Delta8 was illegal under the CSA, but the explanation i've gotten was that anything at all derived from legal hemp (the CBD they turned into Delta8) is itself legal unless you extracted the microscopic amount of Delta9THC from a ton or so ...NOT cost-effective.

 

[chilliwilli]

I know you asked Sam and hopefully he'll still respond but to sort of answer your question on of the sites I looked at when researching this seemed to suggest that these synthesized cannabinoids did seem to still help people in a medicinal sense with the benefit of having less of the potentially unwanted "high" effects. The only problem and why I say "seemed to suggest" is this was more based on polling of a fairly small group and so not really solid research and it didn't specify what specific medical benefits those who said they still felt benefits, were actually getting. Unfortunately I can't remember the site where I saw that to give you a link to check out for yourself.

Thx man every input on that topic is highly appreciated. With new substances that could be patented i was hoping for more research on cannabinoides/cancer/apoptosis.

 

[Loc Dog]

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-60998420

 

[HempKat]

that was why Sams response confused me. he said that Delta8 was illegal under the CSA, but the explanation i've gotten was that anything at all derived from legal hemp (the CBD they turned into Delta8) is itself legal unless you extracted the microscopic amount of Delta9THC from a ton or so ...NOT cost-effective.

Yeah that's my understanding as well. Perhaps where Sam is located the laws do interpret things such that there it is deemed illegal but clearly other states are taking full advantage of the loophole created by just insuring there is .03 Delta 9 THC in the products. It's also possible that due to Sams experience and involvement in Cannabis related things he may be aware of things coming down the line but might not actually be in effect as of yet nation wide. I would not be the least bit surprised to learn that the DEA, FDA or some other alphabet branch of government is working on closing the loopholes being exploited with these types of products.

 

[HempKat]

Thx man every input on that topic is highly appreciated. With new substances that could be patented i was hoping for more research on cannabinoides/cancer/apoptosis.

Yeah, that would be the best thing to come out of the new bill in Congress to decriminalize Cannabis on the Federal level. It could remove roadblocks that prevent any serious much needed research from happening. Of course it still has to get past the Senate and unfortunately the Senate these days is the place where bills go to die more often then not but one can hope. Given the general public's support of legalization passing such legislation could be a good feather in the cap of any politician that will be running in the up coming Mid Terms and decriminalization is a good middle ground between legal and illegal.

 

[HempKat]

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-60998420

Yeah that's a sad story I heard reported recently, the one woman died and she had a friend visiting from America that was hospitalized but she managed to recover and was released. Again though that stuff they took was laced with Spice which has nothing to do with the stuff I'm talking about. Spice is a drug manufactured in a chemists lab and sprayed on herbs to smoke or mixed into candies and other edibles to eat. It is not the same thing as Delta 8 THC which is THC made from converting CBD. Comparing Spice to Delta 8 THC is about as relevant as comparing automobiles to skateboards it's apples to oranges.

I think we all agree here that Spice is very bad and very dangerous and anyone suggesting Spice is okay to use is an idiot.

 

[Loc Dog]

Side note is spice is also term used for bud with dmt, which is not sold in stores.

 

[HempKat]

Side note is spice is also term used for bud with dmt, which is not sold in stores.

It wouldn't surprise me but I've not seen that specifically anywhere but just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I would point out though that it's likely no different then the Spice that used to be sold in stores as synthetic marijuana. Meaning that what they are calling DMT is at best very questionable and might just be some weird chemical concoction that also originated in some Chinese black market lab somewhere. I mean the person who buys something like that isn't likely to have the knowledge or ability to test it to determine if it's actual DMT or something else. They would likely just try it and if they liked the effect buy more. I mean that would be no different then what used to sell on the street as "Loveboat" back in the 90's which was supposedly marijuana soaked in PCP. Of course PCP was mainly produced in very questionable black market labs and so there was no way to be sure it was true PCP but since true PCP would give one a very trippy experience if you bought Loveboat, smoked it and it messed you up pretty bad then you would usually be satisfied and go buy more even though in many cases it was actually embalming fluid. Which oddly enough became an acceptable alternative after real PCP became hard to find on the market, since it would also give one a very trippy experience that would mess them up badly. It even gained it's own nickname on the streets as "Wet". Which isn't to say it was something good or safe to use it was just another way to experience a powerful type of high by using something very bad for your body and or nervous system, just like huffing glue used to get people high but would do lots of harm to kids.

So in short if someone is promoting something under the name of Spice which is supposedly marijuana laced with DMT you should probably avoid it like the plague. The use of cute or seemingly innocent names such as Spice, Loveboat, Wet, etc. should be a big red warning flag because what they're really trying to do is give it a seemingly innocent name so that potential customers will be less afraid of trying it. Unfortunately even though such things are very dangerous and harmful the experiences one has when using such things can be quite intense and exciting and that can keep bringing people back for more. Also there have been a number of reports in recent months of marijuana laced with Fentanyl and I would be willing to bet if you are seeing something on the street sold as "Spice" and claiming to be Marijuana laced with DMT chances are pretty good that the added "DMT" high is actually from Fentanyl.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Of course it still has to get past the Senate and unfortunately the Senate these days is the place where bills go to die more often then not but one can hope.

this is my biggest complaint about the Senate. all you have to do to kill a popular bill is assign it to a committee where the chair does not like the aim of the bill. if he/she won't allow it to be taken up for discussion & a vote, it does not get approved in committee, meaning it is not released to the Senate to be considered. it only takes ONE asshole in a big fucking group of them to thwart the desires of the nation as a whole.

 

[HempKat]

this is my biggest complaint about the Senate. all you have to do to kill a popular bill is assign it to a committee where the chair does not like the aim of the bill. if he/she won't allow it to be taken up for discussion & a vote, it does not get approved in committee, meaning it is not released to the Senate to be considered. it only takes ONE asshole in a big fucking group of them to thwart the desires of the nation as a whole.

Yeah it's a sad situation for sure. One would think that these politicians who seem so focused on staying in office as long as humanly possible would conclude that the surest way to accomplish that goal would be to actually represent the will of the people of the state that elected them to be there to represent their will rather then actively work against that will or try to represent the will of a small minority of that state and then come up with all sorts of convoluted schemes such as gerrymandering and voter suppression to hold on to their office.

 

[Loc Dog]

It wouldn't surprise me but I've not seen that specifically anywhere but just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I would point out though that it's likely no different then the Spice that used to be sold in stores as synthetic marijuana. Meaning that what they are calling DMT is at best very questionable and might just be some weird chemical concoction that also originated in some Chinese black market lab somewhere. I mean the person who buys something like that isn't likely to have the knowledge or ability to test it to determine if it's actual DMT or something else. They would likely just try it and if they liked the effect buy more. I mean that would be no different then what used to sell on the street as "Loveboat" back in the 90's which was supposedly marijuana soaked in PCP. Of course PCP was mainly produced in very questionable black market labs and so there was no way to be sure it was true PCP but since true PCP would give one a very trippy experience if you bought Loveboat, smoked it and it messed you up pretty bad then you would usually be satisfied and go buy more even though in many cases it was actually embalming fluid. Which oddly enough became an acceptable alternative after real PCP became hard to find on the market, since it would also give one a very trippy experience that would mess them up badly. It even gained it's own nickname on the streets as "Wet". Which isn't to say it was something good or safe to use it was just another way to experience a powerful type of high by using something very bad for your body and or nervous system, just like huffing glue used to get people high but would do lots of harm to kids.

So in short if someone is promoting something under the name of Spice which is supposedly marijuana laced with DMT you should probably avoid it like the plague. The use of cute or seemingly innocent names such as Spice, Loveboat, Wet, etc. should be a big red warning flag because what they're really trying to do is give it a seemingly innocent name so that potential customers will be less afraid of trying it. Unfortunately even though such things are very dangerous and harmful the experiences one has when using such things can be quite intense and exciting and that can keep bringing people back for more. Also there have been a number of reports in recent months of marijuana laced with Fentanyl and I would be willing to bet if you are seeing something on the street sold as "Spice" and claiming to be Marijuana laced with DMT chances are pretty good that the added "DMT" high is actually from Fentanyl.

Never saw the DMT/bud spice being sold. I belong to DMT world since watching Hamiltons pharmacopia, and seeing they think it is long term cure for depression, which I have had for 22 years, and prozac barely does anything for it. It is active ingredient in Ayahuasca, which has been used in south america for centuries. Problem with Ayahuasca is it contains poisons which are also extracted, which causes vomitting. Also lasts several hours, where smoking last 15 minutes. One thing F-ed up is majority of people see weird creatures (entities) when using it. Never seen DMT for sale anywhere. Guys over there extract it from plants for themselves. I bought some salvia, and never tried it. I thought that was synthetic cannabis, but another south american plant, used for centuries. Stuff I bought was labeled 20X, so a tiny flake is strong dose. Can see how people might pack a bowl, and do 10 times an enjoyable amount and fall out window. They are now using LSD, DMT, and Ketamine to treat depression in clinical setting (under supervision. Someone on here mentioned they had prescription Ketamine or MDMA nasal spray. Never tried either since I am older than rave scene.

I think the reason they mix bud with DMT is because only 60mg is considered "breakthrough dose (supposedly zoomed to another galaxy). I am not advocating any other drugs, but DMT is found in part of the brain in very small amount.

 

[Loc Dog]

this is my biggest complaint about the Senate. all you have to do to kill a popular bill is assign it to a committee where the chair does not like the aim of the bill. if he/she won't allow it to be taken up for discussion & a vote, it does not get approved in committee, meaning it is not released to the Senate to be considered. it only takes ONE asshole in a big fucking group of them to thwart the desires of the nation as a whole.

That is why senate should be eliminated (states are not people, like corporations are not) since states no one would live in get equal say. Congress should make bills, and the people vote item by item a couple of times a year. Lazy people that trust politicians should be able to give their vote to congressman.

 

[shithawk420]

I just saw this news story about this head shop that's selling delta8 products in tennessee.that stuff looks gross.even the governor said she is in favor of selling actual cannabis over this stuff.it looked liked I don't know.many different things.but if it's safe and you can't get cannabis then have at it.not me.i can go anywhere in the country and get weed.

And these fucking hipsters with there vapes blowing big clouds of smoke like they are cool is pissing me off too.im younger but these sissy bearded punks thinking they know something is already ruining the industry.i personally know a couple and I won't associate with them.

I'm sorry it wasn't the governor.it was just a state law maker that said that.i don't know why I thought that.i don't live in TN.so what I wanna know is how is it made,yes I know it's hemp,and why is it so cheap? That does not look like something I would wanna ingest.no offense Hempkat but I've seen lots of different stuff that looks like that.it almost wants to look like a bud.it almost wants to look like hash.but it doesn't.very wierd looking stuff.i saw they have gummies and flavored joints and the whole 9.

I'm sorry Hempkat.i know your an awesome grower and very intelligent and you have lots of respect but I have to go with my gut with what I just saw.they said 16 states have banned the sale of delta8.hopefully this will open medical or decriminalization in these states that still sell it.

 

[HempKat]

Never saw the DMT/bud spice being sold. I belong to DMT world since watching Hamiltons pharmacopia, and seeing they think it is long term cure for depression, which I have had for 22 years, and prozac barely does anything for it. It is active ingredient in Ayahuasca, which has been used in south america for centuries. Problem with Ayahuasca is it contains poisons which are also extracted, which causes vomitting. Also lasts several hours, where smoking last 15 minutes. One thing F-ed up is majority of people see weird creatures (entities) when using it. Never seen DMT for sale anywhere. Guys over there extract it from plants for themselves. I bought some salvia, and never tried it. I thought that was synthetic cannabis, but another south american plant, used for centuries. Stuff I bought was labeled 20X, so a tiny flake is strong dose. Can see how people might pack a bowl, and do 10 times an enjoyable amount and fall out window. They are now using LSD, DMT, and Ketamine to treat depression in clinical setting (under supervision. Someone on here mentioned they had prescription Ketamine or MDMA nasal spray. Never tried either since I am older than rave scene.

I think the reason they mix bud with DMT is because only 60mg is considered "breakthrough dose (supposedly zoomed to another galaxy). I am not advocating any other drugs, but DMT is found in part of the brain in very small amount.

Yeah I'm not trying to say DMT is bad per se I'm just making the point that if someone is selling marijuana on the street and they claim it's laced with DMT then that's something to be very skeptical of. If one had the equipment and knowledge to produce pure DMT it would be kind of foolish to spray it on weed. I mean I suppose someone could do that but I would be more inclined to believe it was just some random garage lab concoction or possibly Fentanyl. They might call it DMT because most people have heard of it and it's fairly common knowledge that it's produced naturally in the brain. Anyway I've not heard about DMT being used to treat depression but I have heard they've had success treating depression with micro doses of Psilocybin

 

[HempKat]

I just saw this news story about this head shop that's selling delta8 products in tennessee.that stuff looks gross.even the governor said she is in favor of selling actual cannabis over this stuff.it looked liked I don't know.many different things.but if it's safe and you can't get cannabis then have at it.not me.i can go anywhere in the country and get weed.

And these fucking hipsters with there vapes blowing big clouds of smoke like they are cool is pissing me off too.im younger but these sissy bearded punks thinking they know something is already ruining the industry.i personally know a couple and I won't associate with them.

I'm sorry it wasn't the governor.it was just a state law maker that said that.i don't know why I thought that.i don't live in TN.so what I wanna know is how is it made,yes I know it's hemp,and why is it so cheap? That does not look like something I would wanna ingest.no offense Hempkat but I've seen lots of different stuff that looks like that.it almost wants to look like a bud.it almost wants to look like hash.but it doesn't.very wierd looking stuff.i saw they have gummies and flavored joints and the whole 9.

I'm sorry Hempkat.i know your an awesome grower and very intelligent and you have lots of respect but I have to go with my gut with what I just saw.they said 16 states have banned the sale of delta8.hopefully this will open medical or decriminalization in these states that still sell it.

That's fine to go with your gut if you don't trust something. I'm not really trying to convince people to use it. My intent was more to say that if you do run across it it's not the same shit that they used to sell as synthetic weed that would make people do all sorts of crazy stuff and turn people into Zombies. I know what you mean about how it is, I bought a pre rolled joint of it and the stuff did look and feel weird between my fingers. But it smelled pretty much like weed, tasted pretty much like weed and the high was close but not quite as good as weed. I doubt I'll ever try it again unless I get really freaking desperate.

As for how they make it, I don't know the full process, I just know they extract CBD and other non psychoactive cannabinoids from Hemp and then use some chemicals on it that causes a reaction that turns it into Delta 8 THC. One of the reasons many places are warning people not to use it is that since it's unregulated there is no way to know what chemicals are used to convert the CBD and/or if those chemicals remain in the finished product or if they themselves are safe to consume. Also another thing I learned, and this is for anyone who might try to use this to avoid getting caught on a drug test, there is no way to distinguish between Delta 8 and Delta 9 THC both create the same metabolite that urine tests screen for with marijuana so you will come up just as dirty as if you smoked real weed. Although it might not stay in the body as long as Delta 9 THC.