It's not just your Grandfather's Synthetic Marijuana anymore.

[shithawk420]

Agreed, that old stuff which was basically unknown chemicals sprayed on plant like matter was very dangerous stuff and like you I would and even have strongly argued against it's use just like I would argue against the use of Crack, Meth or Heroin. All very bad stuff that should be avoided at all costs.

This stuff is very different in that it is all 100% derived from Hemp, the only bad thing about it is that other chemicals are used to convert the CDB to Delta 8 THC and since it's new and untested/unregulated that presents a certain amount of risk but that risk is far less serious then that old stuff which was just chemicals bought in China sprayed on Herbs. At best this stuff is a novelty and something that might be a relatively harmless alternative for someone who due to the laws where they live have a hard time getting real cannabis. I know the lack of availability may seem difficult to believe especially now that there are so many states that have not just legal medical marijuana but also legal recreational marijuana. Unfortunately there are still many places in the US and around the world where getting you hands on actual Cannabis is not as easy as it is in say California, Colorado and some of the other states that have gone fully legal. If one lives in those states I would agree, avoid this stuff and just get the real thing because it shouldn't be that hard to find. In my home state of Maryland they do have legal medical marijuana and if you have the money it's not hard to get access to the various dispensaries that exist around the state but it's blocked by a minimum annual paywall of $200 for the permit declaring you have the right to obtain medical marijuana. That paywall is a solid barrier to me because of my fixed limited disability income. Also my current circumstances make growing my own virtually impossible. I'm sure there are places where black market weed is available but having been out of that scene for 2 decades and being in my 60's now I wouldn't even no where to find it let alone have a source I would trust to buy from. So for now this stuff does provided a somewhat safe and effective alternative when I find myself feeling a strong desire to get high.

I trust your judgement Hempkat.im sorry it's come down to this.even my state legalize recreational pot.my buddy goes to the dispensary and spends $60 an 1/8. I wouldn't pay that kinda price but at least he has the ability to do so.i hope you guys can get relief and medicated.ive still never been to a dispensary.and I hope I never have to.if I did I'd get edibles or something.sorry.ive just seen too much chemical abuse.thinking about getting kratom though.but are saying that stuff is cheaper than $200 an ounce for seedless weed? If that's true I might to check it out

 

[HempKat]

I´m sorry, are you saying they banned decent painkillers ie medicine so people end up taking shitty stuff instead? Who the hell comes up with these kind of ideas?

They haven't fully banned them but they did abruptly take millions of people with real chronic pain issues off of narcotics all because of a sudden demonization of all this derived from Opium. Unfortunately this put millions of people in a situation where the only real options they had for pain was stuff like Advil or Tylenol which not only aren't very effective for serious pain but carry their own set of health risks. The natural result of this was that in desperation those people suddenly cut off from their usual effective pain meds started experimenting with narcotics on the street and unfortunately around that same time was when black market dealers started lacing narcotics with Fentanyl which even if it doesn't come from a questionable source is far too dangerous to be taking in an unsupervised fashion for the typical forms of chronic pain people struggle with. I get why the government cracked down on narcotics, there were lots of people abusing them as a recreational drug and often times that meant people were getting them from doctors willing to write scripts for powerful narcotics like Oxycontin if you paid them the right price. That rightfully should have been shut down. Unfortunately the government didn't really think it all thru carefully but rather just took a knee jerk reaction kind of approach. They should have come up with a better approach that recognized people who had legitimate needs and who weren't abusing their pain meds and made it possible for them to continue using them.

Now to be fair it's gotten somewhat better most people now have to go to pain management clinics and those doctors are better positioned to determine if someone has a legitimate need for narcotics or if they would be better served by alternative treatments that the average general practioner of medicine may not know much about. As a result it's not as difficult as it was in say 2014 for people with real chronic pain to get narcotics. Back in the beginning of the Opioid crisis about the only people they were letting have fairly unrestricted access to narcotics were people dying from cancer or with other serious issues like that. It's kind of funny, when I got taken off of pain pills (I was taking essentially Vicodin which is on the low end of the scale of narcotics) I was taken off because on my first visit they made me give a urine sample and even though I hadn't smoked anything for almost 4 months they claimed I came up dirty. The doctor told me that because I didn't come right out and admit I was using marijuana this was evidence I was an abuser of drugs and because of that he would never let me have any narcotics again. I of course stopped seeing him and not too long after found I could treat my chronic pain with Kratom which was something I could get legally over the counter. A few years later the practice of treating chronic pain with medical marijuana started to become widely accepted and I learned that the very same doctor who prevented me from getting narcotics because he found trace evidence of marijuana in my system was now routinely prescribing medical marijuana to people for their chronic pain as well as letting people also have narcotics to supplement their medical marijuana.

 

[shithawk420]

I´m sorry, are you saying they banned decent painkillers ie medicine so people end up taking shitty stuff instead? Who the hell comes up with these kind of ideas?

Yes.thats exactly what I'm saying.fentanyl is cheaper than heroin and it's in every drug that comes from Mexico including meth.my uncle is going to die.he has back pain but because heroin is more expensive he's snorting fentyol from China or Mexico cause it's half the price.i haven't seen a painkiller in almost a year and I was charged $7 a norco.yeah that's robbery

 

[shithawk420]

They haven't fully banned them but they did abruptly take millions of people with real chronic pain issues off of narcotics all because of a sudden demonization of all this derived from Opium. Unfortunately this put millions of people in a situation where the only real options they had for pain was stuff like Advil or Tylenol which not only aren't very effective for serious pain but carry their own set of health risks. The natural result of this was that in desperation those people suddenly cut off from their usual effective pain meds started experimenting with narcotics on the street and unfortunately around that same time was when black market dealers started lacing narcotics with Fentanyl which even if it doesn't come from a questionable source is far too dangerous to be taking in an unsupervised fashion for the typical forms of chronic pain people struggle with. I get why the government cracked down on narcotics, there were lots of people abusing them as a recreational drug and often times that meant people were getting them from doctors willing to write scripts for powerful narcotics like Oxycontin if you paid them the right price. That rightfully should have been shut down. Unfortunately the government didn't really think it all thru carefully but rather just took a knee jerk reaction kind of approach. They should have come up with a better approach that recognized people who had legitimate needs and who weren't abusing their pain meds and made it possible for them to continue using them.

Now to be fair it's gotten somewhat better most people now have to go to pain management clinics and those doctors are better positioned to determine if someone has a legitimate need for narcotics or if they would be better served by alternative treatments that the average general practioner of medicine may not know much about. As a result it's not as difficult as it was in say 2014 for people with real chronic pain to get narcotics. Back in the beginning of the Opioid crisis about the only people they were letting have fairly unrestricted access to narcotics were people dying from cancer or with other serious issues like that. It's kind of funny, when I got taken off of pain pills (I was taking essentially Vicodin which is on the low end of the scale of narcotics) I was taken off because on my first visit they made me give a urine sample and even though I hadn't smoked anything for almost 4 months they claimed I came up dirty. The doctor told me that because I didn't come right out and admit I was using marijuana this was evidence I was an abuser of drugs and because of that he would never let me have any narcotics again. I of course stopped seeing him and not too long after found I could treat my chronic pain with Kratom which was something I could get legally over the counter. A few years later the practice of treating chronic pain with medical marijuana started to become widely accepted and I learned that the very same doctor who prevented me from getting narcotics because he found trace evidence of marijuana in my system was now routinely prescribing medical marijuana to people for their chronic pain as well as letting people also have narcotics to supplement their medical marijuana.

I agree with everything you said except the government knew exactly what they are doing.they are creating a monopoly on pain meds and are funding illegal pills through Mexico like they have been doing for decades.nothing new my brother

 

[Cuddles]

Yes.thats exactly what I'm saying.fentanyl is cheaper than heroin and it's in every drug that comes from Mexico including meth.my uncle is going to die.he has back pain but because heroin is more expensive he's snorting fentyol from China or Mexico cause it's half the price.i haven't seen a painkiller in almost a year and I was charged $7 a norco.yeah that's robbery

the people who force sick people to suffer even more are all criminals ! this type of thing ought to be illegal

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

D8THC is not legal under the Federal CSA and you can not extract D8 THC from any herbal Cannabis as the plant does not make it, they have no D8THC synthase to make it. D8THC is synthesised from CBD or other means and that alone will make it illegal under the USA CSA, BTW any D8THC found in Cannabis is a result of the analytical process, it is not in the Cannabis it is a degradation product produced during the analysis. I have no idea if D8THC is safe or not, but few negative reports have been made, it has not been tested for human safety as far as I know.

As for SPICE “JWH-018”and other synthetic Cannabinoids that people take because they can not find Cannabis, they are are all illegal under the USA CSA and maybe very dangerous, my friend John W Huffman, who invented many, for example all the 470 JWH compounds were invented by him in the 1990's, to be used as compounds to study Cannabinoids and receptor binding, but they were never tested for human safety and John W Huffman says do not take them, they should all be banned, help Cannabis be legalised instead. I like John he is a great scientist and human being, I met him at the ICRS conventions more than 25 years ago, he is 90 years old.
https://beyondthc.com/the-inadvertent-inventor-of-spice/
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/legalize-marijuana-inventor-spice-chemicals/story?id=13782613
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/31369...iving-dead-while-experimenting-with-cannabis/

-SamS

 

[shithawk420]

the people who force sick people to suffer even more are all criminals ! this type of thing ought to be illegal

I'm sorry cuddles and Hempkat.im grouchy and I take it personal cause of the hurt chemicals have cost us.no disrespect.

xxxxxxxxxx

 

[HempKat]

I trust your judgement Hempkat.im sorry it's come down to this.even my state legalize recreational pot.my buddy goes to the dispensary and spends $60 an 1/8. I wouldn't pay that kinda price but at least he has the ability to do so.i hope you guys can get relief and medicated.ive still never been to a dispensary.and I hope I never have to.if I did I'd get edibles or something.sorry.ive just seen too much chemical abuse.thinking about getting kratom though.but are saying that stuff is cheaper than $200 an ounce for seedless weed? If that's true I might to check it out

Well for what it's worth, I've been taking Kratom for about 5 years now as an effective alternative treatment for my chronic back pain. I essentially make a smoothie with it using 4 tablespoons of Kratom (which is considered a pretty large dose) and that one smoothie gets me pretty much thru the day without the pain being too debilitating. It's not as effective for the pain as when I was able to take 1 Vicodin every 8 hours but it's close enough and one hell of a lot better then trying to treat my pain with Advil, Tylenol or Alleave. Anyway when I buy it I buy it a Kilo at a time and one Kilo gives me enough Kratom to make my daily smoothie every day for two months. So I only have to resupply every other month and the place I get my Kratom from sells a Kilo for $127 and some change. Which is a price range I can work with. Now that is a wholesale price because I buy it a Kilo at a time. If I bought smaller amounts more often it would be more expensive. Also compared to many places out there that sell Kratom even classified as a "bulk" "Wholesale" price it still an exceptional price. So if you do start using Kratom do shop around rather then just jumping on the first option you find. It's also a good idea to find a source that has a direct connection/relationship with the person growing the trees that Kratom is harvested from. Ideally you want Kratom that comes to your source as freshly processed as possible. Kratom unfortunately doesn't have a great shelf life and it is susceptible to degrading when exposed to air, heat or light for long periods of time. Many of the places that sell it cheap do so because it has sat in some warehouse for too long and or isn't properly protected from air, heat or light which renders the Kratom less potent and so the people selling from those warehouses will sell it real cheap just to move it out and of course many will buy it because it's sold so cheap and they can make more profit from it. If your source has a direct connection with a farmer of the Kratom plant you can usually avoid those problems. Now it's somewhat difficult to know this but it also helps if the person you by from is doing it just to make a profit or if they have some sympathy for people struggling to deal with Chronic pain. Fortunately the local store I get mine from I was able to get to know the owner before I started using it and thru that learned he was more interested in helping people deal with their pain then to make a huge profit from it. His store is mainly a head shop so Kratom is not his main source of profit. He sees it more as a convenience item that if he keeps it affordable will also grow his customer base for the other things he sells.

Now if you do get into using Kratom it's best to do some research and learn as much as you can about the product as you will learn some important things that will help you make better choices to end up with something that will be the most effective for you as possible. The main thing to know if that Kratom comes in a number of different strains where each strain has slightly different effects. These strains are mainly identified by the color of the veins that run thru the leaves As such they are typically named by that ie red vein, green vein, white vein and yellow vein. The active ingredient in Kratom does what it does by binding to the same receptor sites in the brain that narcotics bind to and this is what makes it an effective alternative for treating pain. Dealing with pain is not the only effect it can have, the plant Kratom comes from is actually a member of the same plant family that the plant that produces coffee beans comes from, as a result Kratom can have a mild stimulative effect as well. Additional many people claim it has mood enhancing effects as well and that certain strains can make you feel more energized and generally give you a better sense of well being. Another interesting aspect is that because it binds to the same receptor sites as opioids it can help people quit narcotics by killing the negative withdraw effects from quitting narcotics. Kratom is something that has been part of ancient Chinese/Oriental Medicine for thousands of years. During that time not only was it used to help people treat pain but it also helped people get over Opium addiction. A few hundred years ago the Chinese Government actually encourage the use of Opium as a means of getting people addicting and then using that addiction and the withdraw sickness as a way of controlling people. Then people learned they could defeat that addiction and avoid the sickness by using Kratom. This of course defeated what the Chinese Government was trying to do and as a result the Chinese made the use of Kratom illegal and in many of the countries of Asia it is still considered illegal today forcing many growers of Kratom to do what they do in secrecy much like what growers of marijuana in the US have to go thru. Anyway these different effects are usually associated with the color of the veins of the different species. For pain the best strain is the red vein and is considered the most potent strain for pain relief unfortunately like most effective pain meds the red vein species also has the tendency of making people drowsy so people who use Kratom for pain will often mix red vein with white vein since white vein is the species most know for being stimulative and uplifting/energizing. Mixing the two gives the user pain relief without making them want to sleep the day away. Now since I use it for pain the red vein and the white vein are the strains I know most about, I'm not sure what the other two strains (Green Vein and Yellow Vein) are most noted for but I do know it's one of those two most recommended for fighting off narcotic withdraw. I'm just giving you all this information so that you can make a better decision for what will be best for you if you do end up giving Kratom a try.

A couple of final things to be aware of, as is the case with most drugs everyone is different and is therefore effected somewhat differently by the same drug/medicine. I say this because I don't want you to take the dose I take (4 tablespoon per application) as a recommended dose, for some that may end up being too much and could potentially leave someone feeling sick to the stomach. It is recommended that when one first starts using Kratom the start off with just one tablespoon. If that doesn't do much for them then try again with two tablespoon, then three and so on until you figure the dose right for you. Another thing to be aware of is that Kratom usually comes ground up into a very fine powder. Because of that when you consume it you are largely introducing a big source of fiber into your digestive process. Normally one might think a big source of fiber might help improve bowel movements unfortunately Kratom is also somewhat of a diuretic which means it's actually more likely to make a person a bit constipated and that combined with it being a lot of fiber can result in a very hard stool that comes apart into small clumps when you have a bowel movement. Anyway those negative side effects can be offset by including other things in your diet or routine to soften stools and relieve constipation. For me I found that just being active by walking as much as I could each day helped me solve the constipation issue. The final warning I'll give you about Kratom is the stuff tastes really nasty when you consume it. One way that people fight the taste problem is they pack their Kratom into gel cps or they buy it already in gel caps this does effectively eliminate the bad taste but the problem most people report if that the time it takes for the gel caps to dissolve and release the Kratom into their digestive tracts interferes with the absorption of the active ingredient into the blood stream thereby making it less effective then it could be. Therefore it is recommended that you ingest it directly either by mixing it into a smoothie or maybe a bowl or oatmeal or something like that. Another popular method is known as the toss and wash method which is where you place the kratom as far back in your mouth as you can without choking on it and then wash it down with some sort of drink. Unfortunately any of these methods will cause you to experience the nasty flavor of Kratom which tastes a lot like eating a big handful of freshly mowed grass or hay. If you go with the toss and wash method I found washing it down with orange juice worked the best for me. Ultimately though I decide there had to be a better way and what ended up working best for me was to make essentially a chocolate milkshake or smoothie and blend the Kratom into that. It doesn't totally mask the nasty flavor but it covers it good enough that you can manage to drink it down with no problem, although you might want to eat something immediately afterwards to get the after taste out of you mouth. I found eating a banana right afterwards works well plus the banana seems to help with the constipation/hard stool issue.

Okay well that pretty much covers everything I can think of, if you do decide to pursue Kratom and have any further questions not answered in my post here, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer your questions.

 

[HempKat]

D8THC is not legal under the Federal CSA and you can not extract D8 THC from any herbal Cannabis as the plant does not make it, they have no D8THC synthase to make it. D8THC is synthesised from CBD or other means and that alone will make it illegal under the USA CSA, BTW any D8THC found in Cannabis is a result of the analytical process, it is not in the Cannabis it is a degradation product produced during the analysis. I have no idea if D8THC is safe or not, but few negative reports have been made, it has not been tested for human safety as far as I know.

As for SPICE “JWH-018”and other synthetic Cannabinoids that people take because they can not find Cannabis, they are are all illegal under the USA CSA and maybe very dangerous, my friend John W Huffman, who invented many, for example all the 470 JWH compounds were invented by him in the 1990's, to be used as compounds to study Cannabinoids and receptor binding, but they were never tested for human safety and John W Huffman says do not take them, they should all be banned, help Cannabis be legalised instead. I like John he is a great scientist and human being, I met him at the ICRS conventions more than 25 years ago, he is 90 years old.
https://beyondthc.com/the-inadvertent-inventor-of-spice/
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/legalize-marijuana-inventor-spice-chemicals/story?id=13782613
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/31369...iving-dead-while-experimenting-with-cannabis/

-SamS

Well I respect your knowledge and input but all I can tell you is that this stuff with Delta 8 THC is being sold openly and widely. I was surprised when I first learned this and I went thru dozens of websites to learn more about it. They all did say the legality was a definite gray area but for now it is technically considered legal because the recent law legalizing Hemp also says that all Hemp derivatives are also legal with the only stipulation being that they must contain no more then .03% Delta 9 THC. These sites also seemed to agree that since it's Delta ( THC that is what is made illegal in Cannabis and this product is mainly Delta 8 THC that is also part of the loophole that allows this stuff to currently be sold openly. Hell if you go to the website indicated on the package of the product in my picture www.curevana.com you can even register there to buy it wholesale although that's obviously meant more for stores and not individuals. The point being that in fact it is not currently illegal to sell Delta 8 THC products or if it is the government is choosing to not enforce the law which seems rather unlikely. Now maybe if you consider what the government intended with the laws on the books this stuff should not be legal and if that's the case I imagine before long they'll amend the laws to remove the loopholes but for all intents and purposes at the moment this stuff is not illegal. Perhaps in certain areas the local government interprets the Federal laws differently and so in those States it's considered illegal. If however the Federal laws do make it clearly illegal then the fact that the company in the website I named is shipping their product across states lines to perspective vendors that would make them a company the Federal Government thru the FBI, or the ATF or some other agency could go after and shut down immediately. Since they aren't doing that though I think that's proof enough right there that it's not illegal, at least not at the moment.

 

[HempKat]

I'm sorry cuddles and Hempkat.im grouchy and I take it personal cause of the hurt chemicals have cost us.no disrespect.xxxxxxxxxxxx

No need to apologize, I didn't take any offense to anything you said and you're perfectly entitled to take a position against products like this. I agree with you that there is all sort of chemicals that have been ruled as "legal" or "acceptable" that have ended up causing all sorts of harm to people, often times without the people even being aware that it was this chemical that was ruled as "safe" or "acceptable" that ended up harming them. Like the chemicals used in making Teflon for example. It's very possible that most of the population in the US has been affected by that to some degree or another and that's just one example out of hundreds, maybe even thousands.

 

[Cuddles]

I'm sorry cuddles and Hempkat.im grouchy and I take it personal cause of the hurt chemicals have cost us.no disrespect.

xxxxxxxxxx

no worries mate I believe that mother nature has provided us with remedies for (almost) every ailment. It´s just that we haven´t yet discovered them all.
In addition, I believe that there are meds which come from those big pharmaceutical companies are more effective for certain illnesses. At least until we have found other solutions somehow.
What gets up my nose is that politicians so obviously have the power to bully us into what we can use or what we can not use. Cannabis being a great example.
Prohibition in America didn´t work out either! when will they all learn from the past?

 

[Cuddles]

Well I too am in the situation of living with very tight finances. I basically get $1100 per month to cover my housing, car, utilities, food etc and trust me $110o is not much at all for covering all your expenses. Even if real marijuana was easily available to me it would still be more expensive then this stuff and therefore less of an option for me to consider. Now if this stuff was the same as that old stuff that did have potential psychotic side effects I never would have touched it. I only gave this stuff a try because I had learned about it before I ever had an opportunity to buy it and therefore I knew it was reasonably safe to try. My main point in posting this topic was to inform people that this stuff is nothing like that dangerous stuff from years past. Now I'm not saying it is so safe you should just go hog wild with it, there are some risks to it and I provided information about those risks in my original post. All I'm saying is that if you are desperate for a fairly decent marijuana like high you can reasonably try this stuff and not worry about suddenly passing out behind the wheel of a car or having a sudden urge to try to eat someone's face off.

I know just what you´re talking about as I´m in the same situation. I basically have the same amount to live (or should I say exist on?) and no - it just is not enough. It´s gotten even worse these past few years. And the recent political situation has just made things even worse. prices have gone up even more ...and this is just the beginning.

 

[St. Phatty]

Save your Lungs for the Good Stuff !

Old fashioned Pot.

 

[gizmo666]

have a look at these spiceheads
haha i'll stick to weed thanks

 

[armedoldhippy]

the people who force sick people to suffer even more are all criminals ! this type of thing ought to be illegal

i hate to say this, but some of the truly sick are part of the problem. i've known folks with terminal cancer that sold some of their scrip because they needed the cash more at the moment. some of the doctors here will still prescribe Oxy etc, but you only get 5 pills. when you come for a refill, they will drug-test you to be sure YOU are taking them... a bunch of folks lost their licenses in east TN when the SHTF.

 

[armedoldhippy]

when will they all learn from the past?

when they get more money out of it, instead of doing the right thing just for the hell of it. when being stupid pays more, you can't expect much.

 

[Cuddles]

i hate to say this, but some of the truly sick are part of the problem. i've known folks with terminal cancer that sold some of their scrip because they needed the cash more at the moment. some of the doctors here will still prescribe Oxy etc, but you only get 5 pills. when you come for a refill, they will drug-test you to be sure YOU are taking them... a bunch of folks lost their licenses in east TN when the SHTF.

that is a really shitty situation to be in. And what I take from this is that the real problem in this scenario is actually poverty. am I right?

It´s a paradox type of world isn´t it? One guy cannot get meds because he´s taking other meds to get by and others cannot get meds unless they take enough of meda ...

I´ve got to admit that I have considered selling my meds to make a little cash but I wouldn´t know where and how. Over here we don´t get tested or anything as far as I know, but then again I´m not talking about painkillers. In other words - mine aren´t on the most wanted list lol.

 

[Cuddles]

when they get more money out of it, instead of doing the right thing just for the hell of it. when being stupid pays more, you can't expect much.

yep, that´s it.
Q.: what is integrity there for?
Answer: It´s a great word to fill the Oxford Dictionary!
Side Note: Does NOT apply to lawmakers.

 

[shithawk420]

Well for what it's worth, I've been taking Kratom for about 5 years now as an effective alternative treatment for my chronic back pain. I essentially make a smoothie with it using 4 tablespoons of Kratom (which is considered a pretty large dose) and that one smoothie gets me pretty much thru the day without the pain being too debilitating. It's not as effective for the pain as when I was able to take 1 Vicodin every 8 hours but it's close enough and one hell of a lot better then trying to treat my pain with Advil, Tylenol or Alleave. Anyway when I buy it I buy it a Kilo at a time and one Kilo gives me enough Kratom to make my daily smoothie every day for two months. So I only have to resupply every other month and the place I get my Kratom from sells a Kilo for $127 and some change. Which is a price range I can work with. Now that is a wholesale price because I buy it a Kilo at a time. If I bought smaller amounts more often it would be more expensive. Also compared to many places out there that sell Kratom even classified as a "bulk" "Wholesale" price it still an exceptional price. So if you do start using Kratom do shop around rather then just jumping on the first option you find. It's also a good idea to find a source that has a direct connection/relationship with the person growing the trees that Kratom is harvested from. Ideally you want Kratom that comes to your source as freshly processed as possible. Kratom unfortunately doesn't have a great shelf life and it is susceptible to degrading when exposed to air, heat or light for long periods of time. Many of the places that sell it cheap do so because it has sat in some warehouse for too long and or isn't properly protected from air, heat or light which renders the Kratom less potent and so the people selling from those warehouses will sell it real cheap just to move it out and of course many will buy it because it's sold so cheap and they can make more profit from it. If your source has a direct connection with a farmer of the Kratom plant you can usually avoid those problems. Now it's somewhat difficult to know this but it also helps if the person you by from is doing it just to make a profit or if they have some sympathy for people struggling to deal with Chronic pain. Fortunately the local store I get mine from I was able to get to know the owner before I started using it and thru that learned he was more interested in helping people deal with their pain then to make a huge profit from it. His store is mainly a head shop so Kratom is not his main source of profit. He sees it more as a convenience item that if he keeps it affordable will also grow his customer base for the other things he sells.

Now if you do get into using Kratom it's best to do some research and learn as much as you can about the product as you will learn some important things that will help you make better choices to end up with something that will be the most effective for you as possible. The main thing to know if that Kratom comes in a number of different strains where each strain has slightly different effects. These strains are mainly identified by the color of the veins that run thru the leaves As such they are typically named by that ie red vein, green vein, white vein and yellow vein. The active ingredient in Kratom does what it does by binding to the same receptor sites in the brain that narcotics bind to and this is what makes it an effective alternative for treating pain. Dealing with pain is not the only effect it can have, the plant Kratom comes from is actually a member of the same plant family that the plant that produces coffee beans comes from, as a result Kratom can have a mild stimulative effect as well. Additional many people claim it has mood enhancing effects as well and that certain strains can make you feel more energized and generally give you a better sense of well being. Another interesting aspect is that because it binds to the same receptor sites as opioids it can help people quit narcotics by killing the negative withdraw effects from quitting narcotics. Kratom is something that has been part of ancient Chinese/Oriental Medicine for thousands of years. During that time not only was it used to help people treat pain but it also helped people get over Opium addiction. A few hundred years ago the Chinese Government actually encourage the use of Opium as a means of getting people addicting and then using that addiction and the withdraw sickness as a way of controlling people. Then people learned they could defeat that addiction and avoid the sickness by using Kratom. This of course defeated what the Chinese Government was trying to do and as a result the Chinese made the use of Kratom illegal and in many of the countries of Asia it is still considered illegal today forcing many growers of Kratom to do what they do in secrecy much like what growers of marijuana in the US have to go thru. Anyway these different effects are usually associated with the color of the veins of the different species. For pain the best strain is the red vein and is considered the most potent strain for pain relief unfortunately like most effective pain meds the red vein species also has the tendency of making people drowsy so people who use Kratom for pain will often mix red vein with white vein since white vein is the species most know for being stimulative and uplifting/energizing. Mixing the two gives the user pain relief without making them want to sleep the day away. Now since I use it for pain the red vein and the white vein are the strains I know most about, I'm not sure what the other two strains (Green Vein and Yellow Vein) are most noted for but I do know it's one of those two most recommended for fighting off narcotic withdraw. I'm just giving you all this information so that you can make a better decision for what will be best for you if you do end up giving Kratom a try.

A couple of final things to be aware of, as is the case with most drugs everyone is different and is therefore effected somewhat differently by the same drug/medicine. I say this because I don't want you to take the dose I take (4 tablespoon per application) as a recommended dose, for some that may end up being too much and could potentially leave someone feeling sick to the stomach. It is recommended that when one first starts using Kratom the start off with just one tablespoon. If that doesn't do much for them then try again with two tablespoon, then three and so on until you figure the dose right for you. Another thing to be aware of is that Kratom usually comes ground up into a very fine powder. Because of that when you consume it you are largely introducing a big source of fiber into your digestive process. Normally one might think a big source of fiber might help improve bowel movements unfortunately Kratom is also somewhat of a diuretic which means it's actually more likely to make a person a bit constipated and that combined with it being a lot of fiber can result in a very hard stool that comes apart into small clumps when you have a bowel movement. Anyway those negative side effects can be offset by including other things in your diet or routine to soften stools and relieve constipation. For me I found that just being active by walking as much as I could each day helped me solve the constipation issue. The final warning I'll give you about Kratom is the stuff tastes really nasty when you consume it. One way that people fight the taste problem is they pack their Kratom into gel cps or they buy it already in gel caps this does effectively eliminate the bad taste but the problem most people report if that the time it takes for the gel caps to dissolve and release the Kratom into their digestive tracts interferes with the absorption of the active ingredient into the blood stream thereby making it less effective then it could be. Therefore it is recommended that you ingest it directly either by mixing it into a smoothie or maybe a bowl or oatmeal or something like that. Another popular method is known as the toss and wash method which is where you place the kratom as far back in your mouth as you can without choking on it and then wash it down with some sort of drink. Unfortunately any of these methods will cause you to experience the nasty flavor of Kratom which tastes a lot like eating a big handful of freshly mowed grass or hay. If you go with the toss and wash method I found washing it down with orange juice worked the best for me. Ultimately though I decide there had to be a better way and what ended up working best for me was to make essentially a chocolate milkshake or smoothie and blend the Kratom into that. It doesn't totally mask the nasty flavor but it covers it good enough that you can manage to drink it down with no problem, although you might want to eat something immediately afterwards to get the after taste out of you mouth. I found eating a banana right afterwards works well plus the banana seems to help with the constipation/hard stool issue.

Okay well that pretty much covers everything I can think of, if you do decide to pursue Kratom and have any further questions not answered in my post here, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Thank you Hempkat.my brother gave me some kratom a year ago.he suggested taking a tablespoon and chasing it with water.the taste was kinda gross but I've had worse.i needed more than 1 table spoon but he didn't give me much.i could definitely feel an opioid like affect though.i could get a pound or kilo from the liquor store but it's quality is questionable.

 

[chilliwilli]

D8THC is not legal under the Federal CSA and you can not extract D8 THC from any herbal Cannabis as the plant does not make it, they have no D8THC synthase to make it. D8THC is synthesised from CBD or other means and that alone will make it illegal under the USA CSA, BTW any D8THC found in Cannabis is a result of the analytical process, it is not in the Cannabis it is a degradation product produced during the analysis. I have no idea if D8THC is safe or not, but few negative reports have been made, it has not been tested for human safety as far as I know.

As for SPICE “JWH-018”and other synthetic Cannabinoids that people take because they can not find Cannabis, they are are all illegal under the USA CSA and maybe very dangerous, my friend John W Huffman, who invented many, for example all the 470 JWH compounds were invented by him in the 1990's, to be used as compounds to study Cannabinoids and receptor binding, but they were never tested for human safety and John W Huffman says do not take them, they should all be banned, help Cannabis be legalised instead. I like John he is a great scientist and human being, I met him at the ICRS conventions more than 25 years ago, he is 90 years old.
https://beyondthc.com/the-inadvertent-inventor-of-spice/
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/legalize-marijuana-inventor-spice-chemicals/story?id=13782613
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/31369...iving-dead-while-experimenting-with-cannabis/

-SamS

Hi sam do u see any potential for synthetic cannabinoides to be used in cancer treatment?
I mean to induce apoptosis and also to treat the sideeffects of chemotherapie.
thx chilliwilli