i think thats field horsetail.
comfrey has nearly as much silica as horsetail.
VG
comfrey has nearly as much silica as horsetail.
VG
Is this Horsetail(Equisetum)? Replacing pro-tekt with organic Si02
- Thread starter Dudesome
- Start date
C
Carlos Danger
Organic is a loaded term. What I'm concerned about is whether or not that Si in potassium silicate is plant accessible, and I don't understand the chemistry enough today to say yes or no, and accepting things as fact without understanding why doesn't help. What I do know is the guys I know with the biggest, healthiest girls use it, and it's sold as an agricultural product and not a hydro store gimmick. Eclipse, thanks for the input, I'll be reading more tonight.
Hmmm...nothing to do with "carbon", rather it is all about "technique" and the exclusion/restriction of synthetic inputs (ie Potassium Silicate).
Wiki--
Organic farming is a form of agriculture that relies on techniques such as crop rotation, green manure, compost and biological pest control. Organic farming uses fertilizers and pesticides but excludes or strictly limits the use of manufactured (synthetic) fertilizers, pesticides (which include herbicides, insecticides and fungicides), plant growth regulators such as hormones, livestock antibiotics, food additives, genetically modified organisms,[1] human sewage sludge, and nanomaterials.[2]
Guide for Organic Corp Producers is loaded with "facts"--
https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/download.php?id=67
Cheers!
indianajones
Member
I totally agree with the amount you use. I used to go with 1 quart in 25 gallons, 1%, I ran with 5% in veg this time and the difference was absolutely crazy.
@DabSnob- The term organic in regards to chemistry and gardening seems to have some discrepancy. I don't get too upset about it, there are plenty of words that have different meanings in different situations, just a part of the English language!
OMRI specifies that, to qualify as organic, the silica in potassium silicates "must be sourced from naturally occurring sand. " http://www.omri.org/simple-gml-search/results/"Potassium Silicate, aqueous"
ProTekt and AgSil apparently do not meet that criterion.
There is (or was) a certified organic liquid potassium silicate biofungicide/biopesticide called SIL-MATRIX but I don't know how easy it is for your average Joe or Jane Gardener to find it.
Strike that - a quick web search turned it up. http://www.everwoodfarm.com/Natural...x_Fungicide_Miticide_Insecticide_-_2.5_Gallon
Floral...glad someone else can read the fine print! Had that argument with some of the best "organic growers" on ICMag (many are no longer here--as they were asked to leave the building) and as you can see--their philosophy prevailed, "ProTekt is OK for Organic Growers".
LOL...now there are 2 of us that know better. Sometimes its better to shut up, let the argument be and move on....as you can not fix "stupid"!
Cheers!
BTW---link to that thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=244553
LOL...now there are 2 of us that know better. Sometimes its better to shut up, let the argument be and move on....as you can not fix "stupid"!
Cheers!
BTW---link to that thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=244553
Oregonism
Active member
You are correct when comparing the term of organic in chemistry, versus an inorganic.
However, "organic" gardening is a misnomer of flaming shit. Before someone enters their argument, go read the list of chemicals "grandfathered" in to make the "organic" list. That list was about deep pockets, not ecological balance.
All gardening was "organic" gardening at some point. Organic based gardening might have been more accurate, however our puny brains couldn't agree with the extra word.
O
OptionDork
For starters yes that pic is of a variety of horsetail. There is another variety I'm familiar with that has no 'leaves' at all and simply stalks. If you do use DE make sure you wear a protective mask. Your lungs cannot break down DE and simply like inhaling micro razor blades. Far as I know DE is only used for insect control where it punctures exoskeletons. Imagine what it does to your lungs
.If you ever use horsetail in composting make sure you get the compost hot as any viable piece will grow and really a nuisance and virtually impossible to get rid of.
O
OptionDork
There is probably no difference. Thing you have to understand is most all nutrient companies buy bulk ingredients from the actual raw material manufacturer and simply bottle it under their own label either in one of their formulas or as a stand-alone ingredient. Potassium silicate is potassium silicate is potassium silicate.
Thanks man...I guess since this thread is in the "growers forum", it never occurred to use the "chemistry definition" of "organics"...it would be kinda silly, huh?
BTW, I think many of us would love to see the list of the chemicals grandfathered and acceptable for "organic growers"....cuz I did not know there was such a thing.
Got any links? I am particularly interested in "who/when/why/where" of the grandfathering concept you refer to. I have been around more decades than I care to admit (closer to 60 than 50 years old), and this is the FIRST I heard of any "organic" body that "grandfathered chems". Many of us are aware exceptions where certain "synthetic" products are permitted (in a limited way) for organic growing (ie Potassium Silicate). But I have NEVER heard of any "grandfathered list of chems".
Thanks!
Oregonism
Active member
Ok, well I achieve organic certification for people thru Oregon Tilth which is just really the USDA. I urge you to read thru the Organic Certification provided thru USDA as administered by their agent, OT. The info is clearly out there. The history of organic certification is laughable at best.
I don't know why you take this stance, you are clearly a read individual, because you haven't "heard of it" makes it not exist?
So I can't explain how chemistry works? Wow, ok.
Oregonism
Active member
Use the equisetum.
I actually ferment the batches that I pick. This cleaves sugars and lignin from the Si as it is oxidated. The silicate is usually in a tetrahedral shape surrounded by 4 Oxygen molecules, so fermentation oxidates quite well.
One note: this stuff will grow everywhere because of its spore reproduction. once it gets established and is crazy hard to eradicate. Some people like it growing, some hate it.
I also use dried horsetail for slugs, by throwing some into the old coffe grinder and then sprinkling on the borders like Sluggo or whatever other crap.
I actually ferment the batches that I pick. This cleaves sugars and lignin from the Si as it is oxidated. The silicate is usually in a tetrahedral shape surrounded by 4 Oxygen molecules, so fermentation oxidates quite well.
One note: this stuff will grow everywhere because of its spore reproduction. once it gets established and is crazy hard to eradicate. Some people like it growing, some hate it.
I also use dried horsetail for slugs, by throwing some into the old coffe grinder and then sprinkling on the borders like Sluggo or whatever other crap.
O
OptionDork
Technically OT(CO) certifies per USDA standards. I dealt with them for years through annual inspections in the nutritional industry. I think the whole organic certification thing is a joke.
Perhaps the question is why did you impose a chemistry definition in a grow forum?
While we are playing "definition games", lets review the definition of "grandfather clause"--
"1. A provision in a statute that exempts those already involved in a regulated activity...from the new regulations established by the statute."
BTW, I am sure your organic/chemistry research you discovered that "chemical/synthetic growing" concepts were never "grandfathered" by the "organic growers"; rather the two separate growing philosophies have never been real partners.
And of course, you discovered there are ZERO "organic chems"--and there is no such thing as a "grandfathered list" of chems.
I respect opinions (as they are personal)--but will gladly debate the facts (as they are provable).
Cheers!
SpicySativa
Member
Here's that list for ya:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...rgn=div6&view=text&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.7&idno=7
That list has absolutely zero about "grandfathering". As I said before, certain synthetics are permitted in "organic growing" but with certain restrictions...namely due to lack of "green alternatives"--not because of a prior practice.
Well aware of CFR--and nothing presented there was "grandfathered"....the statement I am debating is "go read the list of chemicals "grandfathered" in to make the "organic" list. That list was about deep pockets, not ecological balance. "
Nothing in the CFR supports that line of thinking...sorry, just holding peeps feets the fire.
Cheers!
Well aware of CFR--and nothing presented there was "grandfathered"....the statement I am debating is "go read the list of chemicals "grandfathered" in to make the "organic" list. That list was about deep pockets, not ecological balance. "
Nothing in the CFR supports that line of thinking...sorry, just holding peeps feets the fire.
Cheers!
SpicySativa
Member
For a dude who hangs out in the organic growing forum, you sure spend a lot of time naysaying...
